A Break Down on GOP Forums, Fraud, and Political Violence

[00:00:11] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy, and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherer. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. This week, we are kicking things off by welcoming another new guest to the podcast. We are excited to be joined by former State Representative Dennis Smith. Dennis served in the Minnesota House from 2015 to 2019, representing Mabel Grove. He went on to run for Attorney General in 2018, and now he is the chair of the Minnesota Republican Party Elephant Club.

[00:00:38] With Dennis, we will break down his experience in the legislature and what he learned running for statewide office. We will then turn our attention to his current role with Elephant Club and his efforts hosting gubernatorial debates. And we will end our time with Dennis by getting into the current lay of the land for politics, campaigns, and Minnesota Republicans. After our interview, we will break down Governor Walz's final State of the State address that occurred this week. We will hit on tone, themes, and notable moments.

[00:01:03] Then we will continue our conversation here in Minnesota by discussing the recent FBI raids at 22 locations across Minnesota, focused on alleged fraud involving public programs and taxpayer money. We will end by hitting the shocking incident at the White House Correspondents' Dinner this weekend. Thank you for joining us and enjoy the show.

[00:01:23] We are excited to be joined today by Dennis Smith. Dennis, before we get into all the nitty-gritty of all your thoughts and opinions and everything about what's going on today, let's hear a little bit about where you come from, your experience. So you are a lawyer. You were in the state legislature for a couple years. Let's start there. Talk to us about your career and why you decided to step into public service in the first place.

[00:01:50] Dennis Smith Yeah, so a lifelong lawyer and my father always taught me he was a milkman by his trade. And he always taught me to try to leave the world a little bit better place than how we found it. So that was my initial draw to public service. As my practice became established, I decided to run for the legislature, which was a lifelong dream of mine. And I was there for four years. I served when Governor Dayton was our governor. And I set a record for the most bills signed by an opposing governor in the history of our state.

[00:02:20] Dennis Smith I really thrived on having legislation that represented the broader middle, sometimes the edges on both sides. But I really worked on legislation that really impacted Minnesota in a positive way, a way that I think that Minnesotans are looking for our representatives and senators and government people to represent us today. Dennis Smith I ended up getting caught up in the first Trump midterm. We lost 14 suburban seats that we were not expecting to lose. Unfortunately, I was one of them.

[00:02:48] Dennis Smith So I went back to my practice of law. I decided to run statewide for attorney general in 2022. Dennis Smith I campaigned for about a year. At the end of the day, it wasn't the right time to go forward. Dennis Smith So I withdrew from the race right around the convention. Dennis Smith And since then, I've been actively involved in our party. Dennis Smith Helping out campaigns. Dennis Smith Last cycle, I served as an informal advisor for nine different campaigns.

[00:03:15] Dennis Smith I'm involved in lots of different clubs. I'm chair of the Elephant Club. I've been on the board for two years and then I've been chair for the last year and a half. Dennis Smith And I'm always looking for ways to sort of help out Republicans and like-minded people and moving our state in a more positive direction. Dennis Smith There is just so many things that I want to jump on from what you just talked about. Dennis Smith I want to come back to the most bills signed and kind of that legislating in the middle because I think there's a lot there.

[00:03:43] Dennis Smith But I do want to shift a little bit to your work at the Elephant Club. Dennis Smith I spent two years at it was one of my first internships out of college, but then I also came back in 2020 and was comms director and then ED. Dennis Smith Michael obviously has a tie to the MNGOP back as his time as deputy chair.

[00:04:02] Dennis Smith Talk to us a little bit about where the party is, how things are going, and then your role in Elephant Club because we've talked a lot about the financials of things and how Minnesota Republicans, you know, certainly have to have a lot more to work to do to kind of match what the Democrats are. Dennis Smith But I know that you're working hard in there, having good events and everything. Dennis Smith Talk to us a little bit about how that's going and what you're hearing as you're, you know, meeting with donors and having these events.

[00:04:29] Dennis Smith Yeah, so the Elephant Club, if the viewers aren't familiar, is a part of the state party, definitely part of the brand. Dennis Smith But it's really been treated as an independent group, which I really appreciate because I don't necessarily agree with everything our state party has done or what they're doing.

[00:04:44] Dennis Smith The Elephant Club gives us a chance to stay out of the weeds, not get caught up in the day-to-day issues with candidates and races and what the Democrats are doing, and really focus on creating energy, enthusiasm, and raising money for the party. Dennis Smith And I've enjoyed that immensely. Dennis Smith We have these great events where hundreds of people come and they hear from a variety of candidates. Dennis Smith We've had a Senate forum.

[00:05:09] Dennis Smith I've hosted a governor forum, forum for all the other statewides, Congressional's as well. Dennis Smith We just don't bring in candidates. Dennis Smith We bring in interesting speakers from really around the country and to give Minnesota a view that there's a lot that goes into being a Republican and there's a lot of great ideas out there. Dennis Smith So at these events and when I talk to donors, I'm hearing some guarded optimism. Dennis Smith People are really, really excited about this election, but it's reserved in the way that,

[00:05:39] Dennis Smith We don't really know what's going to happen. Dennis Smith There's some real fear that we're going to have, it's going to be a really tough midterm like it was in 2018 and Trump's first term. Dennis Smith And that could impact us at the national level and at our statewide races and certainly in our local House and our local Senate as well for the state. Dennis Smith Absolutely.

[00:05:58] Dennis Smith I think one thing that I'm curious about and one thing that Michael and I chat a little bit about or a lot about is kind of this, you know, interesting time of being a Republican where especially as you were a Republican in the suburbs, right? Dennis Smith You represented Maple Grove, if I am correct, right? Dennis Smith Yes. Dennis Smith Okay, perfect. Dennis Smith You know, you talked a little bit about kind of finding those things that we can all kind of join together and work together on.

[00:06:27] Dennis Smith How do you navigate or how do you talk to it with the Elephant Club? Dennis Smith How do you talk and message right now in this kind of interesting time of wanting to make sure, you know, we have Republicans have the majorities in Washington, D.C. Dennis Smith And we have the presidency and, you know, we have a lot of good things going for Republicans here in the state.

[00:06:46] Dennis Smith But how do you navigate through some of that messaging within donors as you have within your cycles as well of kind of, you know, running against it for Attorney General and serving Maple Grove? Dennis How do you navigate those kind of both lanes of messaging for Republicans? Dennis Smith Yeah, it's a great question and highlights something our party is really going through is that in order for us to win, certainly nationwide, but also more so in our own state, we need to have a broader tent.

[00:07:15] Dennis We need to be able to appeal to people that are in the middle, some even lean Democrats. Dennis We've had some signature Republicans that have been able to appeal to lean Democrats in the past, not so distant future. Dennis We've had some sort of the Republicans that are considered in the middle, the active Republicans, the inactive Republicans, also people that are more conservative that identify as Republicans as well. Dennis And it takes the whole team.

[00:07:41] Dennis And I think explaining to people that we need to have grace for all the different stripes of Republicanism is a key to winning locally and the statewide level as well as at the national level. Dennis And that's a challenge, Becky, because certainly everyone gets dug in and they're around their own echo chamber and they want to hear what they want to hear.

[00:08:04] Dennis I mean, some of these questions that I've been hearing from in these forums that I've been hosting, it's just remarkable of the range of questions and the range of issues people are concerned about. Dennis And I keep trying to bring people back to the middle that that's the best place for us, particularly in Minnesota, is to be as close to the center as we can to still represent the core principles of being a Republican and a conservative.

[00:08:30] But we're not going to win. I mean, we all know it's been 20 years since we've won statewide and we're not going to win again until we, I think, represent campaigns and govern in that particular view. Dennis, separate from your role as head of the Elephant Club, you've been in a very unique vantage point. That was one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you.

[00:08:53] You have been involved with a series of debates and forums that have been held with some of the gubernatorial candidates. Dennis And I think because of first of all, your role as the head of the Elephant Club and the, the, in essence, the party sponsored events that you've done, you've just been in a really unique spot to see the lay of the land and how people are interacting with, with candidates at all different levels of office. Dennis And I think that's the way that you've been involved with candidates.

[00:09:21] Dennis And I think that's the way that you've been involved with candidates, but specifically you have been involved with candidate debates and candidate forms with the gubernatorial candidates. Dennis Now that's separate from your role as head of the Elephant Club. Can you talk a bit about how those were started? Who's involved? And kind of what you're seeing from questions? Dennis And you're kind of the political landscape where obviously because you're emceeing these, we're not going to ask you to handicap or just kind of horse race where these things are at.

[00:09:49] Dennis But just process wise, I think it's going to be interesting for our listeners to hear. Dennis So it's a great idea and I wish I could take credit, but the candidates that were on the forum came to me with this idea of having statewide zoom calls, chopping up the state into manageable chunks. Dennis So we had three of them and the candidates chose who was going to be at the event. Dennis And they asked me to, to monitor and to emcee the event, to field the questions.

[00:10:18] Dennis And I think that in my political career, I've created this, this sort of unbiased trusted advisor view. Dennis So they wanted me to, to sort of screen through the questions and to keep things in a way where it was productive because the delegates and the alternates that are going to be making their decision. Dennis So they want to make sure that they're going to be making their decision at this upcoming convention and quite possibly at the primary as well. Dennis They want more access to the candidates.

[00:10:45] Dennis When you're a candidate and we've all been involved in the game, you think that you've been everywhere and that everybody knows everything about you. Dennis And it's so interesting to be reminded that people pay attention, a fraction of what we think they pay attention. Dennis So the most obvious thing about your own background that you think is just that everybody knows really isn't the case that people may not know it. Dennis There's been some great examples of some, some of those things over the last few weeks that I've, that I've seen.

[00:11:11] Dennis But we've been having these, these forums where it's interactive and this is what makes it unique is that the people can type in the questions. Dennis So they type in the questions and everyone who's invited can type in a question as many as you want. Dennis And some certainly took that advantage of that to type in multiple questions. Dennis And then I screen the questions and then I asked all the different candidates and they all get equal time. Dennis And then we just roll through the questions and it's been really fascinating.

[00:11:39] Dennis Let's talk about the candidates that are participating and how that came to be. Dennis Kendall Qualls, Kristen Robbins, Patrick Knight, Philip Parrish and Peggy Bennett. Dennis That's a lot of candidates. Dennis Yeah, the, those five and they, you know, they chose themselves and they all agreed to participate in all of them. Dennis There's three of them in total and we, we invited all the alternates and delegates.

[00:12:07] So about 5,500 people were invited. Dennis And how are you breaking, how are you breaking these debates down? Because you're taking them in steps, aren't you? Dennis Yeah. Dennis So it was broken up by congressional district. So it was a groupings of, of last night was, was two and six. But then the prior to there's three congressional districts and then the other three. Dennis There's eight congressional districts in our state is a reminder for everyone.

[00:12:35] Dennis So we broke it up that way, just simply from a number perspective. Dennis And I was really surprised by the number of people that contacted me individually before and after saying how much they appreciated this type of access and opportunity to speak, you know, to hear from the candidate in a different way. Dennis And did it need to leave their house for it or, you know, leave their car, leave their golf cart, whatever they were doing or leave their fishing boat.

[00:12:59] Dennis So people really appreciated being able to just zoom in and hear from them and ask questions if they wanted to. Dennis And I think it was a great success. Dennis And I advise other candidates to do it in other races. Dennis Becky, if I can for a second, just a quick, ask you a quick process question. Dennis We've both been involved in the party in a variety of capacities. Dennis When I heard about this, I thought it was incredibly unique.

[00:13:21] Dennis And also, I mean, you and I have discussed and in our previous episode, we discussed debates and forums and the need for them and there needs to be some structure and that type of stuff. Dennis I'm not aware that I've ever heard anything like this before. Dennis And I think it's pretty fascinating. Dennis In your experience, have you heard anything like this? Dennis No, and I think, you know, in particular with that, you know, I think your association with the party, but also not the chair of the party.

[00:13:47] Dennis I think it lends itself to a friendly moderator, a friendly MC who is obviously has optimism and hopes and desires for the future of Minnesota Republicans and for the futures of this party without all of the drama and, you know, insider, you know, stuff that comes with being chair. Dennis So I think it's like such a great little connection to the party on behalf of, you know, Republicans.

[00:14:15] Dennis And this is something we tried last week about debates and access to candidates. Dennis And like you said, I think that sometimes candidates forget because they say the same things over and over and over that they just assume everybody knows them. Dennis But sometimes asking those most simple questions about how you're going to deal with the fraud issue. Dennis How are you going to deal with our massive exploding budget? Dennis And things that you think that every candidate should be able to roll off and sometimes struggle with and don't have the right answer or sometimes surprise you with where they stand, you know, on that spectrum.

[00:14:44] Dennis So I think access is great. Dennis I think anything we can do to raise the civic IQ of our delegates of our voters in the state is incredible. Dennis So I applaud this. Dennis I think it's, I think it's great. Dennis I think anytime we, we hear more from folks willing to step forward and who want to lead our state and who should be able to sit in any audience with any person and take any question. Dennis I think it's a bravo.

[00:15:07] Dennis Yeah, and that, that raises an interesting point that it really highlighted these debates and this, you know, form of discussion where the breadth of information you need to have to run for a big office. Dennis And certainly governor is one of those big offices. Dennis There's many others as well, but the breadth of that information you need to be able to draw upon as you reference and have a discussion in real time. Dennis That is tricky and not too many people can really do that.

[00:15:33] Dennis And that was one observation I had from, you know, from the, you know, these many hours I've spent with these candidates in this type of format. Dennis It isn't your five minute, give us your stump speech and then you can run off stage and run to the next event. Dennis It was a real discussion with, you know, and with a lot of detail and the candidates to their credit. Dennis I failed to mention this earlier.

[00:15:53] Dennis They gave me the ability to ask a follow up if any of them didn't address the question in a way that was sufficient, you know, to, to me, which I appreciate the trust they have in me that I was going to treat them all fairly. Dennis Not just by weeding out the silly questions, which, you know, there's, you know, too many of those, but also saying, well, thank you candidate a for that answer.

[00:16:17] Dennis You know, let's you talk more about, you know, the question I think was going this direction because they wanted to hear about a particular issue or the program that they, you know, that they wanted to hear their thoughts on. Dennis Now that you've done a number of these, talk to us through like two or three kind of recurring themes or recurring questions that you have been getting from folks who are submitting questions or comments to, to the candidates.

[00:16:43] Dennis Yeah, the trends are very same, very similar to at the national level with one exception. Dennis I think the, the first one is the economy. Dennis It's wrapped into how do we grow the economy? Dennis How do we get companies to stay here? Dennis Everyone's tired of companies leaving or their headquarters are here, but their primary growth is with another business unit, which is down in Austin, Texas, or one of the other more pro business states. Dennis You know, Florida certainly gets a lot of attention in that regard.

[00:17:11] Dennis So the economy in general and wrapped in that is the affordability issue. Dennis Everybody is sensitive to the prices and the increased prices of, of gasoline and groceries and our everyday life. Dennis Health care is a big part of that. Dennis So that was, that's the number one issue for sure. Dennis The another, the other question is, is people have a lot of questions and concerns about fraud while it's dominated the headlines.

[00:17:35] Dennis Not so much in the last couple of months, but certainly before ice came to town is that it is a primary concern of people. Dennis And they're really disappointed that our state government has been ran so poorly and managed so inappropriately. Dennis And there's certainly a lot of our candidates for governor and other races are using that and they should, they should use it more because that issue really resonates with people.

[00:18:00] Dennis And then I think the third question is grouped about how can we win? Dennis How can we win these races that we haven't held for 20 years? Dennis And some of the sub questions in there is how do we compete more in St. Paul and Minneapolis? Dennis We all know we don't need to win those cities and that's, you know, that's, that would be nearly impossible. Dennis But how do we go from 32%, you know, to 36% in city five?

[00:18:26] Dennis That might be, that would make enough for us to win a couple of statewides in the last race might make the difference this time. Dennis And how do we win in the suburbs? Dennis The suburban candidates and issues have been really been trailing the national trends. Dennis So how do we individualize that and compete in the suburbs with a lot of people that probably used to be Republicans or have voted for Republicans in the past?

[00:18:49] Dennis And then for greater Minnesota, while there are more Republicans in greater Minnesota than not, how do we get them out to vote? Dennis There's interesting studies that are about how many people don't vote in a presidential off year. Dennis And people have said that in the last election for our statewides, if everyone voted in the presidential race, I voted in that, that election four years ago, we would have won a lot of seats.

[00:19:16] Dennis So how do we get all these different groups activated and how do we compete in all these different landscapes in the political world? Dennis And it's not easy, but people are thinking about it, I think more than ever, Becky. Becky I think that's great. And I think that's kind of what we have heard and felt ourselves on a lot of that. That's that those issues. I think, you know, cost of living and the economy is certainly going to be something.

[00:19:41] We also we're going to be chatting about laws as state of the state, which, you know, kind of ties into that as well. And the fraud issue, you know, we've talked so much about how you just truly can't if you would have talked to us in December, that was going to dominate the next year. And then in January it was ice. And so, you know, who knows what else might come up here? I think it's certainly going to be a topic.

[00:20:05] But I'm curious as I want you to kind of dive back into your mindset of when you were a legislator for for the suburbs, when you were running statewide and in particular in those suburbs. We know that Republicans have difficulties in those suburban areas.

[00:20:21] So in addition to needing our rural supporters and voters to come out to support folks in the midterms, we know that there are some eroding challenges of folks that are, you know, supported Trump and maybe are, you know, unsure, which are the folks that likely stay home during midterm elections.

[00:20:37] Talk to us jointly about how Republicans, if you're giving advice to any candidate, whether it's statewide, whether it's a legislator or candidate running for the suburbs, how do you navigate through ensuring that your messaging to these voters in the suburbs why Republicans deserve a shot at statewide office, why Republicans deserve a shot at holding the majorities in the legislature?

[00:20:59] And then also to dovetail off of what you were talking about already, making sure that those voters actually come out in November of 2026. Yeah. So there it's important, I think, for people to explain how we got to where we are, where our state budget has gone up 40 percent in the last eight years under Governor Walz and talking about issues in a way that resonates with people.

[00:21:24] I, the advice I give to candidates all the time is they talk about large numbers, like we have a surplus of, of 1 billion, 5 billion, 5 million. The Pentagon budget just asked for 1.2 gazillion dollars. It, those numbers don't mean, and that's a made up number, Michael, but those numbers don't mean anything to people. It's percentages are better because that's how we relate to items. Um, because our home budget is obviously much smaller than those numbers.

[00:21:50] So understanding things in a way that can relate to them, I think is really important. And then you can pivot to how things haven't been going well. That our state does not do well under one party control. And I don't think any government does well under one party control. The, you know, people get a larger voice than they should when that happens. And we saw here in Minnesota, all the bad legislation and laws that were implemented on us when the Democrats had control over the last, you know, it was like two and three years ago.

[00:22:20] And people remember that and they're very worried about it. And just now things are starting to be rolled out that is impacting our, you know, everyday life from what they did. So I talking about what happened and why we need to have a balanced government. So then you spend that for your, well, your race, if you're running, running for state house to like, it's a tight house. You know, this seat is pivotal. We could win the majority if we win this seat and you get, try to gain their support that way with the state Senate. We obviously are down one seat.

[00:22:49] So you talk about whether you're in an incumbent or, you know, or a, a win back seat and why that's important. And then the statewides are a little bit easier because we haven't held any of them for so long. And I think if the statewide candidates talked about how their role could impact them, that, that would be better because a lot of people get confused about what these different positions are and what their role is and how they can impact everyday life.

[00:23:14] And then the last piece of that, Becky, is I would say that people need to try to separate all the noise, all the national noise, all the national trends, and even the local noise, and just talk about their particular race and why it's important. It's very easy to get caught up in national trends on election day. That's disappointing. I've been a part of that. So have many others, and that's no fun.

[00:23:37] So trying to control your own destiny by saying this race right here is really important and a reminder for everyone because everyone always forgets this is that the closer the government is to you, whether it's city hall or your state legislature has far more impact on your life than the federal government. The things that the state government can do impacts our day to day life so much more. And people don't really think about that because the news doesn't allow people to.

[00:24:04] The news is all about what our president is doing or what Congress is doing. Those are both important things, but also the local angle is really important as well. So I'd remind them of that as well. Dennis, you've been so generous with your time today. Just kind of a final question for you. What if you're a Republican right now and you know, Becky and I to the degree which were kind of homeless Republicans. What advice do you have for Republican activists as they come forward?

[00:24:33] You know, you've been in this this catbird seat. You've seen these candidates. You've looked at the races. What's your advice to activists as they head up to the state convention and we get into the primary their role in how they should be looking at some of these candidates and how they should be making some of their decisions? Yeah, it's a two part advice. It's a great question, Michael. Part one is that to open your eyes and to really take a look at these candidates. Don't just read, you know, one piece of information.

[00:25:01] Don't just listen to what one of your friends thinks. Really look at it yourself. Being a delegate and also I would argue being a primary voter are two very important things. And we've gone through a lot in our country in order to have those two rights. And having having a solid look at people is really important. And and that's why these debates have been, I think, so important.

[00:25:22] And I hope other candidates are trying to connect with voters as well, because the fourth most common question from my tallies is what differentiates candidates? We have a lot of great candidates running for governor in some of these other big races as well. But how do they differentiate from each other? Not in a negative way, but in a positive way. And I think if they understand what the candidates represent and where they come from, and that's going to help them figure out who to vote for.

[00:25:51] And that that's obviously critically important. But the other piece of advice I have for them is to stay engaged when you're a state delegate. It's a privilege to be there. Your local people elected you go there, but that responsibility doesn't end on May 30th. That responsibility continues throughout the summer, throughout the fall and also into next year. And that means you need to be engaged.

[00:26:15] You need to help out candidates at all level, whether it's school board or city council, state house, state senate, your congressional, your statewide. There are Senate candidates. You need to help the candidates. And that includes many things that people think it's just about giving money. While that's a part of it, it's probably more impactful for more people if they get involved by giving their time and thinking about how they can help the candidate, like hosting a little meet and greet in their neighborhood.

[00:26:44] It doesn't need to be anything like elaborate. You could have it out on your street, block off the street or have it in your driveway. Invite your 10 closest neighbors over and have a candidate over to talk about them. But those types of access and understanding who the candidates are and then helping them in ways of the little meet and greets or certainly the giving money, as I mentioned. But, you know, you can donate your time by doing a variety of things, whatever the campaign strategy is. But they need to stay engaged.

[00:27:12] And I think as our party, I think we've struggled with this mightily. And the two of you have lived through this as well, where our activists sort of check out and but we let them check out. So it's incumbent upon us, the people that are engaged to keep them keep them involved and to remind them what's at stake. Dennis, we cannot thank you enough for taking the time to join us today.

[00:27:36] And we hope you enjoyed the experience and we'd love to have you back at any point during the election cycle. And I hope you consider coming back because this has been informative and it really piggybacks off a conversation we had last week about debates and form and the importance of them. And it's great that you've stepped into this role both with the party, but also in this in this kind of citizen role of just providing a valuable service, I think, to candidates as they continue to try to get their sea legs. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Happy to come back anytime.

[00:28:06] Great to see you both. Thank you. Becky, we just finished an interview with former state representative Dennis Smith, who is the chair of the Elephant Club for the Republican Party. But what we spoke with him about was some forums and debates that he's been having and hosting with the gubernatorial candidates online. Your take on the interview. I mean, I thought it was great.

[00:28:27] I love anybody who is willing to step up, be involved, kind of facilitate that access between candidates and delegates or voters, general public. I think, you know, we've talked a lot about it. I think that candidates only can get better as a candidate by answering questions and having those conversations and doing so in a respectful, coordinated effort here, I think is great.

[00:28:51] And yeah, I think our delegates deserve that access as much as I want to, you know, do away with the endorsement process. These candidates who are hoping and pleading and buying for that do, you know, they're putting in the time and effort and energy and having that access, I think, should be a perk of that process being in play currently.

[00:29:12] So I think that was great. I appreciated his optimism and kind of the advice he gave of walking some of those precarious lines, right, of the making sure that your voters actually get out and vote, how to message within the suburbs, being, you know, a Trump Republican or just a Republican and also navigating through some of that middle.

[00:29:32] And hey, I love anybody who gets, you know, has that background in his legislative experience working across the aisle with both sides and being so successful to get bills signed by then Governor Dayton. So it was great. Absolutely. I agree. What I liked about it was our conversation last week about debates, and it was a good dovetailing. I think that we've discussed that there's, we want candidates to participate in debates.

[00:29:58] You can't run for office and hide, but simultaneously I think there needs to be some structure behind them. You know, I think the gubernatorial candidates have debated quite a bit and it's for others to decide the quality of those debates and things like that. I'm not trying to get into that, but what I liked about this was it was a unique approach. I hadn't heard of it done before. It seems that this was largely candidate driven. And so that created, I think, and the access to the candidates. I just thought it was a good kind of citizen thing.

[00:30:27] And to the degree which we consider ourselves Republicans, we always try to find ways in which to, you know, help Republicans in some ways where we can. Although this is not a Republican sponsored podcast, but we are as former or to the degree that we're homeless or former Republicans. It was nice to do. And so I appreciated his, his, his willingness, number one, to have that MC role, that kind of leadership role, but to come on and discuss it in a fair balls and strikes way.

[00:30:52] Not getting it into the specifics of who he thinks is doing better, but just about the process. Thank you, Dennis, and, and for the work that you're doing and, and for everyone who's participating actually on both sides of the aisles in this process. I appreciate it both. Perfect. Um, I want to move into another big thing that happened this week. Uh, Governor Walz had his final state of the state address, um, kind of a closing the chapter, um, talking about his legacy.

[00:31:19] Uh, and he really kind of the core theme, and correct me if I'm wrong or if you disagree, but that Minnesota has been through a painful, destabilizing period. And the strength comes from its people, from the Minnesotans. And also jointly about how government in Minnesota has been successful and proving itself that it can deliver, protect, and be trusted going forward. It very much felt like a legacy, legacy speech. What he wants to be remembered of is, is that how you took it? What's your main key takeaway?

[00:31:48] Yes. I mean, it's, it is a legacy. I viewed it that way. I viewed it as a legacy speech. It's also historic from the standpoint is that most we have not had, and we've not had governors, uh, attempt to seek. I mean, we've had candidates run three, but not three consecutive terms since there was an establishment of four-year terms. It hasn't been done. And so Walls, I think Governor Walls was in a unique spot because he had kind of, he announced he was going to run for a third term, then pulled back.

[00:32:17] I think that this speech showed number. It was a discussion on his legacy, where they go forward, where he thinks the state should go forward. I think it also established that he's not going anywhere. Um, and he's going to be there. And as we, as the clock ticks closer to may, which is the end of the legislative session, it's going to be very interesting to see what his role is in those kind of final days of the legislative session where it goes.

[00:32:44] He is not a governor who is going away, uh, quietly not to say that he should, or he shouldn't. I'm just saying, whereas this kind of historically, this last state of the state of dress has been kind of a capstone and it can be somewhat, you know, of a, a past the torch type moment. I don't think that that was necessarily the purpose as much as it was, is he wanted to talk about what he's done, where this state is going.

[00:33:14] And I think it's going to be very interesting to see. It's something that I've talked about before is what is governor roles? What is governor Walls' role going to be in Minnesota this election cycle? How much are we going to see him on the campaign trail? Uh, because I think he's going to be around independent of his new PAC that he set up, which is going to help in other states, but not, but also Minnesota. I think we're going to see that. I think he is going to continually show that he's not going anywhere.

[00:33:43] And it's going to be very interesting dynamic that we can get into in later episodes. I agree. I think that he is certainly going to want to continue to be out there, be in front of, of defending the, the record that he stands on from the last seven years and the role that the Democrats in the legislature played in that. Part of his speech, he talked about how, quote, we've invested more than $1 billion in childcare and early learning opportunities. He talks about our nation leading child tax credit, cutting child poverty.

[00:34:12] And then he even had a simple line, in Minnesota, we feed our kids. This certainly kind of, I feel like, is trying to set kind of that groundwork to come back for the fraud. I think that's kind of always worked a little hand in hand of, yes, there's fraud, but it's because we are such a generous state, right? And so I think that goes hand in hand there. Another key theme he had was the cost of living and economic pressure. That's obviously something we hear time and time and time again.

[00:34:38] Dennis just talked about it being a big part of their debates and forums. I'm a little curious there because as the Republican, you know, wearing my partisan hat here, I would say, well, a lot of that pain is because of you and the policies the Democrats have instituted with, you know, spending, spending our $18 billion surplus, raising taxes, another $2 billion. I mean, if we're going there. You know those talking points very well. I mean, come on. It seems pretty easy on its face.

[00:35:09] But then, of course, he also got into some of the freedoms, right? This is something that we hear a lot from, I would say, some moderate independents and also, obviously, on the left of the rights that are under attack. Reproductive freedom under attack, LGBT rights under attack. And so certainly that angle, I think, was a big thing that he was hitting on and standing on how Minnesota stands up for these people.

[00:35:37] How we're, he said, we're a place where every voice counts. And so I think that wasn't surprising, but a nice addition that he had in there. And then he went into fraud. A criticism from Harry Niska was that he. Representative Harry Niska. Representative leader Harry Niska. Oh, you all should think Trump'd me. Was, he quoted that, he said, we had to wait 30 minutes, 38 minutes into the speech before we heard anything about the biggest national story about Minnesota, the shocking multi-billion dollar fraud that struck our state.

[00:36:07] So I think, I mean, Republicans are going to hit him on fraud regardless of where, when, how he discusses it, right? And we're going to talk a little bit more about this here. But he, you know, continued with the, I've said the buck stops with me. People have ripped us off, are getting caught, and they're going to jail. And kind of tried to push back at the legislature that if you're taking this seriously, then pass bills to take it seriously. So, I mean, he had to mention it. Absolutely. He had to go there.

[00:36:34] Do you think he made any move with his comments on fraud? Or is that, I mean, he said what, what we expected. A couple things. The governor has a big bully pulpit. Every governor does. It's one of the, I've had a number of people tell me on election days over the years, over the time I've been involved in politics, that the race that they would always want to win the most is the governor's race. And I think it shows. The governor has a big bully pulpit.

[00:37:03] So he can stand up. It's a televised speech. It's pomp. It's circumstance. And everyone's there to listen to him. It's very unique in comparison to the other leaders that are there. And so it's a big deal. I mean, it really is. And you and I have been, I want to be consistent. I think we always try to be consistent. That we have discussed state of the state address, the state of the union addresses as having really a campaign field for them.

[00:37:28] And I think that it depends on what the campaign is, but he's obviously not running for reelection. And so this is, I think, a campaign again for his legacy. And I think that Representative Leader Niska's criticism is that any time that Walls would have mentioned fraud, there would have been a criticism of them. I'm not trying to diminish the point at all. But that is what he's walking into. That is the narrative out there.

[00:37:52] And so as much as the governor gets to set the narrative by what he wants to talk about, it is the responsibility of the opposition party, in this case, the Republicans, to the degree which they disagree, which they do, to message to the opposite side. And I think that they were successful doing that. I think fraud is going to be, as we've talked about, Becky, fraud is going to be the issue that I think will, in some ways, define this term of Governor Walz.

[00:38:20] And it will define the next term of whoever is elected governor. Because we have, we have, and we'll dovetail into that later subjects, fraud is not going away. And we learned that again this week. And so I truly don't think that there is enough that can be said about fraud as much as I also think there needs to be a lot more done to tackle it.

[00:38:45] And so I think the governor had a responsibility to bring it up. And again, just as I said about, we've said about Trump's speeches and Biden's speeches, they get to pick what the order they bring him up. And so I think he had to bring it up. I understand when he brought it up. And I certainly understand Leader Niska's critique of his speech. Absolutely. I think I've said absolutely 14 times already. So I apologize for that, friends.

[00:39:13] When we look at kind of his comments towards Trump or Republicans, he doesn't name Trump directly in this. Was that surprising for you? No, I don't think it. I mean, I'm a little, I mean, first of all, I've said before that the tenor between or the commentary between Trump and Walls is too hot. I legitimately don't think they like each other. And that's a both side of the table problem.

[00:39:39] I'm not, I'm not being, I'm not assigning that to one of the participants. This is, this is a divorce that's happening and both sides are at fault. And so I applaud him for not bringing his name into this in light of some of the events that may have, that have happened in the last week. I think it was a wise decision on his part to not mention him specifically. And I view that as much as I have been critical of Governor Walls' comments about Trump.

[00:40:07] I think it's, to me, I was left with that was a conscious decision to, in some ways, not name him directly in an attempt to lower some of the temperature. Your take. I think it was an intentional thing for sure to not name Trump.

[00:40:26] I would argue, playing my devil's advocate, I don't know if it was to lower the temperature or because if there's one thing you want to do to piss somebody off is allude to them without naming them. Right? I mean, you know that Trump's people looked at the speech, watched the speech, were ready to run a post-it into the president saying this is what Governor Walls just said about you. And he didn't take that bait.

[00:40:51] So I think it was a little in the eye of President Trump as well to, like, annoy him that he's not going to go there. He's going to try to, you know, be the bigger person, which I think, you know, kind of comes off as. Because he certainly had the opportunity. He talked to you about there's only so much we can do in St. Paul about the bad economic policies coming from D.C. We've experienced a federal invasion in our state. You know, he certainly went there in general, in vague comments.

[00:41:19] But I think it could be viewed both ways. I think certainly a little bit of lowering the temperature, but also a little bit to kind of irk somebody, irk the president or his team by not going there when you know that Trump is ready to just nail an offensive comment back to him. I can see that. Closing out here, a couple last comments. This was on the same time as the Minnesota Wild. Do you think that impacted viewership at all?

[00:41:49] Of course it did. I mean, this is, yeah, of course it did. I mean, this is the state of hockey. The Minnesota Wild play tonight. We're recording this on Thursday. So did the Minnesota Timberwolves. As I've said before, I know nothing about basketball, but I know a lot about hockey. Go Wolves. Go T-Wolves. But yes, I think it has an impact. Sports always does.

[00:42:08] I remember, Becky, if I may just for an aside, there was a, there was a, there was a, one of, I'm saying this respectfully, but how much Minnesota loves sports. I was at a Vikings game with one of my kids when there was a, one of the couple of assassination attempts on President Trump. We'll get into that subject more related to recent development, but sadly a new one. But, and I was being asked by the person, what was the reaction inside U.S. Bank when people found out?

[00:42:36] I said, there could be nuclear bombs going off outside U.S. Bank. And if it's a Vikings game, people are going to be focused on how the Vikings are playing. And so we're a very sports, we're a very weather and sports focused community. And so the governor, any governor would have been competing with their adventure tornado storm or some type of severe weather or sports related event. And then lastly, because I got to get, I mean, I'm running out of time to, to get my comments in.

[00:43:04] As somebody who supported Walls in the past, but has had some fair criticism of them going forward. Where did you think this stood? I mean, if you're wearing kind of your, your previous Walls supporter hat versus some Walls criticism hat. And, which I think is where there are a good number of Minnesotans that kind of stand in that lane. Where do you think this speech falls? And how do you think voters take away when they're kind of maybe not fully Democrat, fully Republican,

[00:43:33] but looking at this speech as kind of where we go from here, where Democrats and Republicans go from here, and what we're going to look for from our next governor. How do you think this fits into that? I think that Governor Walls is taking an active role in how his legacy will be defined. And that's one of the advantages of being a governor and having the, the imprimatur and the apparatus around you to create these types of opportunities or to maximize, I should say, these opportunities.

[00:44:03] I would expect more of this before he leaves office. It's a really good question. And it's a really good question that you ask. The governor is not running for reelection. I will tell you to be consistent with something that I've said before. No poll showed the governor losing head to head in any race. And while I think it became difficult for him to run for reelection inside, because in part what the dynamics would be on the rest of the ticket. I think that drove it more than anything else.

[00:44:36] I think that, for the governor, for Governor Walls and particularly his supporters, knowing that I think he could have won on election day is going to be kind of a little bittersweet. And so again, just because I want to be honest with you, because you asked the question. I have a feeling that there is a little bit of a chip on his shoulder between loyalists to the governor and for him.

[00:45:03] Because again, I think had he run for reelection, Becky, I think the race would have been tighter in some down ballot races. I think him not running creates a little bit of a more upper, a little more breathing room for some Democrats. Number two, but his not ever losing in the polls. I mean, he could, he could be a selfish politician and all politicians are, have that kind of gene of being like, well, if I can win, why should I be worried about anyone else?

[00:45:32] And so I think the governor is, I think a little bit of that speech, which I did flip between, I have watched it in its entirety, had a little bit of a, I think, I think he acknowledged, I think he understood, I should say. The historic nature of this speech, I think he tried to nail it as best he could. I do get a little sense, a little chip on the shoulder and that's going to something that I've discussed before. So we'll see.

[00:45:59] I think the chapters of Tim Walz's political career have not all been written yet. And so I would not be surprised if his polling stayed the same, would not surprise me if it went up, would not surprise me when it went down. Based on what we know and how we know it, what comes out about fraud and other types of things. Ever since Donald Trump was elected in 16, I've kind of stayed out of the prognostication or prediction business of predicting things.

[00:46:28] I just will tell you right now, I think all the chapters of his political life have not been written. And he's playing a very active role right now in telling his story, his particular way. And that's going to be interesting. I think if you liked the governor, you liked what you heard. If you have disagreements with news. And I just go back to a point and push back. But again, I don't remember ever seeing a poll that said the governor was going to lose.

[00:46:56] I think the decision for him not to run was a team decision about how the rest of the ticket went. And so I think that is present in his mind. I don't know that, but just my take is that is where some of that, that's how some of these speeches are formed from that context. Your take, tell me if I'm right, tell me if I'm wrong. No, I mean, I think that's an appropriate take.

[00:47:19] I think in particular, it also kind of coming on the heels of the failed vice president nomination or ticket that he ran on. I think there's certainly a little bit of a chip on the shoulder. And I think that would be the case regardless of who the governor was and what situation. You know, kind of feeling as though you had to make a choice for the greater good of your party, of the government. You know, I think it would have been a tough race.

[00:47:47] But I definitely think regardless of whether he would have won again down ballot, this would allow fraud to continue to dominate. And I think he gave them some breathing room with his step aside. And let me just put a very fine point of it. I stand by my vote in 2022. I stand by what I did in 2024. I stand by it completely. I would like to remind you that as we were coming into this election cycle, I did have some concerns about him running for a third term because of the issue of fraud. Yep. Yeah. And so. I think you've been consistent with that.

[00:48:16] You have always have a great memory about some of the things that I have done and said. I just would like to refresh your memory, Becky. Hey, I have that in the notes here. I'm just messing with you. Continuing on with the fraud topic, though, it's a perfect segue here. This week, the FBI executed 22 search warrants across Minnesota focused on alleged fraud involving public programs and taxpayer money. Their targets included child care centers and autism service providers.

[00:48:45] This was not an immigration operation. It was purely on fraud, financial crimes. And yeah, it was significant. What they did. Yes. And I and I don't know. I'm a movie person. I know if you've ever seen the movie Groundhog Day. But when I saw the news, I'm like. Uh, I looked at my watch. I'm like, is what? And I was just kind of like, it's happening again. It's happening again.

[00:49:14] And I was I was stunned. Yeah. Um, we have also had a little bit of maybe we call it a kerfuffle. Is that an appropriate thing between Walls and the FBI director, Cash Patel? You know, this was something that Walls was applauding as being a kind of cohesive, collaborative effort from the state government and the federal government. And Patel said, whoa, whoa, whoa. Not quite.

[00:49:40] I mean, this was, you know, a little Twitter feud that went on where the FBI director Patel came out and said that it was actually because of the failures of the state government. The federal government had to come in. What was your take seeing that little kerfuffle occur on X? I mean, this in the most reasonable fairway. I don't know that anyone who is necessarily involved should be racing out there and saying that the system works.

[00:50:07] That's one of the frustrations I have with the departure of Joe Thompson is that I thought he was the fairest person to call kind of balls and strikes. Use that term again. And the fraud is first of all, just to repeat again, I'm really, this was a very, and you did a good job of. This was a very significant rate. Not to say that any rate isn't significant, having not been rated and don't ever plan on being rated. It was significant.

[00:50:36] A couple of points I want to say about that. First of all, I'm, are we not running out of places in this state that can be rated to this level? I'm surprised by that. But also what I think Minnesota has missed is missing is some like something that can, someone that can stand up at a podium. Not necessarily where there's no politics involved, but someone who is just perceived to be a straight shooter and tell us what in the F is going on.

[00:51:03] And I, sadly, I think that this issue has been weaponized in a way that it makes me question what's going on. That's part of the reason Becky has said some of the chapters of Tim Wall's life have, his political career haven't been written yet because we don't know. That's why I said polls can go up, polls can go down and polls could say the same based on what we knew, what we know and what we find out.

[00:51:28] And this is a situation where I, it's become so polarized and weaponized that. That I don't know to what degree law enforcement was involved or the, I'm just going to rephrase it. I don't know what degree the state was involved. The attorney general went out there too and said some things. The Minnesota attorney general did. I would like to believe that there is massive cooperation between our state, federal, and local partners on this. I don't know that that's realistic.

[00:51:58] So I'd like to believe that there was some collaboration. It's clear there's not, but there's also a political reason why just to be fair, there's also a political reason why the Trump administration would want to take away from walls, any cooperation that he had. And so particularly with the FBI agent who seems to be a bit on the hot seat right now, if media reports are correct.

[00:52:24] And so, again, I just wish there was someone like Joe Thompson standing up and saying, okay, Minnesotans, here's what's going on. Is that fair? I think that's very fair. You know, from what I've gathered from a number of articles and stories I've read, that there was certainly a driving force by the federal side, the FBI, the Department of Justice, Kash Patel leading the public messaging.

[00:52:47] There was some Homeland Security and Federal Task Force involved, but there was the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension assisting in raids, the Minnesota Attorney General's Office involved in some searches tied to these issues. And the governor, you know, certainly was aware of what is going on, unclear, you know, of who came up with the plan and all of that.

[00:53:09] But I think it's, you know, definitely a low-hanging fruit of something that is not surprising that Patel came out swinging at. I think this is always going to be, I mean, we've been talking about this on fraud and ICE, the left versus right and federal versus state and, you know, the trust eroding and the cooperation eroding and the issues that all come through there.

[00:53:31] So I think that we'll continue to see the federal government involved in the fraud issue in the state with their congressional hearings, with raids, with different things. And at the end of the day, can we all not just stand here and say, we want to fix this, let's fix it together? That is the point I was going to make, and thank you for making it, because I think, in all honesty, where I think the Republican position should be, the taxpayer position, the common sense middle position is, I don't care who was involved in it, just get it fixed.

[00:54:01] And so I think it's amazing, someone once told me this, and it's not something that I can, it's amazing what can get done if you're not worried about who gets credit for. In this situation, I think it's been so weaponized and politicized that people have to stake their flag. And in all honesty, you know what I want? I want the federal government and state and local leaders working together in partnership. I don't want them squabbling.

[00:54:25] Now, I completely understand that some of the bureaucratic processes that we have in this state are part of the problem, and there may be a need for the federal government to be looking in to what the state is doing. And the state maybe need to look into what locals are doing, and that overlap that's going, I understand that. I'm not trying to complicate an investigation. But we have seen story after story in this state about raids being done. I'm surprised there was a number of locations that could still be raided. I'm surprised we're not on top of this.

[00:54:54] I just want the federal government to just, and state government and all levels of government to be like, we're getting on top of this. And act accordingly with the right political pressure, with the right political cooperation. Yes. And we will see. Moving into our last topic, though, of the day, which we mentioned briefly earlier, there was a big incident over the weekend in Washington, D.C., the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

[00:55:19] This is one of the most high-profile political events of the year, and it was disrupted by an attempted shooting, allegedly targeting the president and key officials, top officials of his administration. This is, you know, typically a lighter, fun event where there's, you know, journalists and celebrities and the politicians. This was Trump's first time attending this term. And, you know, it's like a roast, right?

[00:55:47] I mean, it's usually there's some good entertainment, good fun, obviously a little, some pointed comments and things of the like. But it's typically more fun of the political events that happened. And before anything really even began, as guests were seated and dinner was being served, a suspect charged, an individual from California charged a security checkpoint. I think you probably everybody has seen the video of him running through outside the ballroom. He was armed with a shotgun and other weapons.

[00:56:17] At least one shot was fired. A Secret Service agent was struck but was protected by a vest, thank God. They, Trump and Vance and Emmer and Johnson and all of the officials were quickly evacuated. That part of the Secret Service and their work went very well. Suspect was subdued on the, arrested on scene. And again, important to note, it happened outside of the ballroom, not in the ballroom. But a lot of conversations being had about how this happened, right?

[00:56:46] I mean, we had this after the assassination attempt where Trump was shot. This was yet another major breakdown in the security system that was going on there. It should be noted that this happened, this event was held at the Washington Hilton. It was the same hotel where Reagan was shot in 1981. It's also the same place where the dinner has been held since the 1960s. So this is nothing new. They have appropriately secured this location and done this, you know, very significant buildup

[00:57:14] and security plan implemented it in the past. How does this happen? First of all, let me just say, horrified by this happening again. One of my earliest school memories was I remember when a teacher came in my classroom and said that in first grade that said that the president had been shot. And this was the Reagan being shot outside of the, this same hotel.

[00:57:41] First of all, it surprises me that, that we have this level of access that can occur. This is a very significant event. Have you ever attended it before? I have not been lucky enough to. So a little bit of nerdom. It's been one of my dreams to attend it at some point in my life. And I still hope to. This is one of the events that really kind of, I think, can really bring folks together. And there's always a little bit of controversy about who the host is, who the comedian is,

[00:58:10] or who the person is running this event. This was significant because the president Trump was going to be there. From all accounts of initial reports, he was going to give a real fired up speech, no pun intended, about just kind of being there for the first time. And I think that would have been good for our country to observe. And I was kind of looking forward to the event and hearing what he was going to say,

[00:58:37] because I think it is good for the president to go to these things and to have that type of relationship. First of all, I am incredibly sad once again, that the president of the United States, his family has to be go through this experience for the staff, those around him, everyone in that room. I was just really heartbroken again that our president is experiencing these things and people in that room. That is traumatic. I saw the first lady there.

[00:59:06] This cannot be something that is healthy to deal with. And for everyone in that room, my thoughts and prayers, I posted on social media right away, my concerns about them. I thought it was incredibly brave of the president to come out and speak afterwards. That takes some mental resilience. And I don't want any comments from anyone about that comment. Don't DM me. Don't say anything. I don't want to hear your feedback on it.

[00:59:34] I got to tell you, it takes guts to have that type of incident happen and then to get up and speak and address the nation as the manner in which she did. And there seemed to be a little bit of a thawing of the relationship just for that little brief moment between the media and the president that I hope continues and goes on. But I'm just saddened that this is where we're at again.

[00:59:59] And I got more to say about the reaction from folks, but I wanted to just pause and get your perspective on what I said and what your feelings are and stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously horrible and horrifying that anybody wants to kill or do harm to the president, to elected leaders, and anybody else in that room that may have been targeted or just, you know, potentially collateral damage.

[01:00:27] I'm so grateful that he was not able to enter that room to do anything, the shooter. It certainly is really concerning that we continue to have lacking security measures to ensure the safety of the president of the United States. This is not—I mean, not saying that there's anything okay with not having security for other elected officials or lower-level people. And we're going to talk about the Minnesota angle of this here soon.

[01:00:55] But this is literally the leader of the free world, the commander-in-chief, the president of the United States of America, for the second time in a handful of years, had somebody within distance that could have killed him. And it's just wild. There was a hot mic moment that I saw that went kind of viral of a reporter who was kind of standing on the red carpet

[01:01:22] talking about how some folks who were not even part of the event but just working for the hotel were just, like, holding the doors open for people to enter. And they were, you know, just, like, a little incredulous of, like, what is going on? Like, they're not even trying anymore. It's just mind-boggling of how something that has—the Secret Service has been around forever. The detail around the president and the Speaker of the House and the Vice President and the Majority Whip and all of these folks has been going on forever.

[01:01:49] And these flaws that are coming out are just unacceptable. And I hope that really they—we start to see that fixed. Because I think the close access that this—how closely this alleged shooter, this criminal Cole Thomas Allen from Torrance, California, how close he got to being in the room with Trump and these leaders, I feel like only will embolden other people to try.

[01:02:19] Right? I mean, we had somebody who actively shot him. We had somebody on the golf course who was, you know, laying in wait trying to do that. We now have this incident. It's just only going to continue to embolden people if we continue to have these things where people get close to killing the president of the United States, regardless of whether that president is right, left, center, whoever that is. Completely unacceptable.

[01:02:44] I just can't imagine what goes through Trump's mind and his wife's mind and their children because—horrifying. And you don't—you continue to serve. He continues to have to go out there at these events in front of the voters and do so. And it's just really appalling. Yes. And again, great points. Great points. I'm not an agent of law enforcement. I don't think you are. You may be undercover. I don't know. But I'm not an agent of law enforcement.

[01:03:12] What frustrates me is the type of—when these type of situations happen, is the kind of Monday morning quarterbacking or looking at the steps that were made. This isn't complicated what this person did. They knew this was going to be an event at this hotel. They booked a hotel room, and they were in the hotel room. By all accounts, by media reports, this person was a guest of the hotel. And so that shows a level of planning. But I don't know that it's necessarily that sophisticated.

[01:03:42] I mean, to figure out the president is going to be attending the White House Correspondence Center, here's where it's held. Let me book a room. And so that type of—that type of, I think, misstep is frustrating. Again, I've never worn a badge. I'm not in law enforcement. I know they have a complicated, difficult job. But it's pretty clear that there has been, I think, substantial narrative about some of the shortcomings about that event, how it was planned, and the access that people had.

[01:04:09] And clearly, when someone is able to get a shotgun, a handgun, and multiple knives in proximity to the president, a hallway or two away, is not good. And I think there needs to be a serious, substantive, non-political, non-partisan discussion that we need to have in this country about the safety of our elected officials, the president. And it's a very serious matter. And it's concerning to see.

[01:04:40] The other point I wanted to make to you was, I had a very interesting observation I wanted to share. Well, at least it's interesting to me. When this situation happened, I, you know, I was on a group text, and I try to be not robotic, but intentional when I tweet things and when I post things. And one of the things that I have noticed is that when this type of event happens, and it shouldn't happen, and it's sad, and it's tragic, and we've discussed that.

[01:05:03] But there is this kind of desire on people's part to be the beat cop trying to investigate what happened, the political motive, the agenda of people here, to weaponize this incident, rather than pausing and focusing on the humanity and shock of what's just happened. And I am surprised, particularly as someone who has not voted for the president and has not supported him by voting in any type of political way.

[01:05:33] But I recognize, and I've discussed that I always want the president to succeed, that there is a state general lack of humanity, particularly on social media. When these types of events happen, that there is this kind of immediate reaction of people to be like, what's the background of the suspect? What can we find out about him? How can we connect it? How can we weaponize this type of event politically to make it about the other side? And if that's the first place you go, you got a problem.

[01:06:01] Because the first place I go is, I'll tell you, I was home with my family. We were watching TV, watching a movie. And I heard, based on news reports, that there had been an incident at the White House correspondent events. I immediately changed the channel. We immediately focused on that. You know, I said a prayer privately and was just concerned. But what I noticed on social media, and particularly on some group messages, is people trying to

[01:06:25] just, within minutes of this happening, trying to blame another side for this. And I get it. That may be where people be. But what is lost in this is the trauma, the human trauma. The president, if you, I understand many people in this country do not like Donald Trump. They do not like him, what he stands for. I get it. He's a human being and he's the president. His wife was there. His press secretary was there.

[01:06:53] There were members of the media there. There were journalists, celebrities, other people. That's an incredibly traumatizing event. And I can't imagine what it would have, what it felt like to be there. But what I, what I want to encourage people to do is whenever there is this type of event, and I hope it never happens again, but your first reaction shouldn't be to be a B cop and try to figure out what the motive is and weaponize it right away.

[01:07:20] I, as I scroll through social media and I'm, I'm not trying to be a social media cop or claim that I'm better. The number of people who just couldn't just say, I'm worried about the president. But there are people, some of them, his most rabid supporters who are out there trying to be like, this is what's going on with this. And they're trying to solve this crime. Ain't your job to solve the crime. I think if more people approach this from the standpoint of my God, we had another incident

[01:07:47] with the president and we need to figure out how we can come together as a country to stop these things. Let's let the investigation play out and let's let law enforcement solve it. But boy, I think more people need to stop. I just wanted to say that because what's being lost in this is it's happening with such frequency and there's just, we're in such a hyper-partisan time right now where everything has to be politicized. I am someone who has never voted for Donald Trump. I was a Republican for Harrison Walls.

[01:08:16] And my first reaction when I saw this was, my God, I hope he is okay. I hope his family is okay. I hope everyone is that okay. And if I may just, before I get off my soapbox here, I wish other people would think that way because I honestly do think in this rare instance, the way I'm thinking could help some people out. Yeah, I think it's a really good reminder to folks, especially because, I mean, when we look

[01:08:40] back over even just the last decade or so, we've had Republican Steve Scalise was shot in D.C. We had Speaker Melissa Hortman killed here. We had Democrats, Senator John Hoffman shot nine times here in this state. We've had multiple assassination attempts on Republican Donald Trump. We have too much hatred, too much divide happening and too much temperature up. And we need to all work together.

[01:09:08] We just had, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar just had the person who approached her, rushed her, and sprayed something on her at a recent town hall was just, was going through the court system as well. You know, it is just, it's too much. It's these people like them, dislike them, hate them, or love them. They are stepping up for a public service. They are stepping up to dedicate their lives and their time and their energy.

[01:09:35] I don't think people understand how much truly some of these elected officials sacrifice of their own free will, of their time with their family, of their time to just sit and scroll on their phone or watch some series or binge or whatever. I don't think people understand that. And I think we all need to remember that Republican, Democrat, Independent, third party, whatever it is, these are folks who are stepping up, who are sacrificing, who are choosing to serve and want to make the world better, want to make our state better.

[01:10:05] And regardless of whether you agree with their policies or not, they are doing something that you and I aren't doing. And that majority, you know, 99.99% of Americans are not doing. And I think we need to remember that these, they're still brothers, sisters, wives, their husbands, their parents, and they are human, right? And we just need to work together, like you said, to condemn all of this, to try to, I don't know how we turn things around.

[01:10:34] Obviously, they need to focus on the security and ensuring that that level is fixed for the president and others. But we certainly need to do more. Because as we know, this also obviously has a ripple effect. We talked a little bit with Lars last week about the significant turnover at the Minnesota legislature. 42 of 201 Minnesota legislators are not returning. And there was an article this week that talked a little bit about how some of that is because

[01:11:04] of political violence and how it's not theoretical, especially in the lives and minds of Minnesota legislators. There are a number of folks that are choosing to step away. And I don't blame them. It's toxic. It's dangerous. It is literally putting their life on the line. And this is not somebody who's stepping up to join the military and potentially go to war or be on the front lines of the police or fire.

[01:11:30] You know, like these are people trying to make laws and use intelligence and brain and cohesion and conversation to make our lives all better. And it's just really disappointing and unfortunate. And it's not surprising that more than ever folks are choosing to not step up or retire early. You're absolutely right. First of all, just great points. And sadly, it's a very effective segue into how this is happening locally.

[01:11:57] I mean, we've had, you know, Congresswoman Craig was attacked. This just happens with such frequency. And it's just tragic. I will tell you as much as I enjoy politics, as much as I enjoy watching it, I don't go to events. I wouldn't, I would not feel comfortable going to a political rally or going to a convention because of just the stakes that are there. I take my security, my personal security very safely.

[01:12:25] We've discussed in the podcast episode things where even at my very low level where I've had to deal with threats and harassment and stuff, I cannot begin to comprehend what these legislators, statewide officials, candidates that are running. And then on top of the president of the United States, we are just inundated with this type of this ugliness and this violence.

[01:12:45] And it is so sad that people don't feel safe and that they can't go out there and be a part of the process and freely have discussions. It is, we're just in a very, very rabid time. And not to belabor the point, but I go back to the reaction that we have that we are less than it's been not even a year since Speaker Hortman was killed.

[01:13:13] And we've, and you very in, in a responsible way, but you listed off of, uh, kind of a offensive list of incidents that have happened that are all that have occurred. And I think, I hope we're not getting dehumanized and desensitized to what's going on here every time. And I'm sad, I have to say that every time there's an incident with the president, my first reaction is thoughts and prayers.

[01:13:41] And I don't mean that any type of glib way, it's me pausing and praying and saying, my God, I hope he's okay. The most, the, the most kind of concerning or triggering video that I saw about that event last, uh, the white house correspondence center was the, his press secretary. Who's with child, the first lady is there, their faces just looked terrified as they should at that type of event.

[01:14:07] And I don't want to see that at the state level statewide level, or certainly at the local level. And we got a problem here about how we talk, how we interact with each other and how we are so dehumanizing in politics in particular. It is too much of, for lack of a better phrase, a political blood sport and particularly online.

[01:14:30] And we got to figure it out because the conversation with Lars last week that you and he had was just wonderful. And I've listened to it a couple of times since that episode. And you guys were really dialing down on some of those data points about what Minnesota has happened. And this is a factor in it. And again, when we go online and we look at these situations that we don't focus on the humanity, we don't focus on the tragic nature of this. We want to make up conspiracy. We want to present conspiracy theories. Like this was a setup.

[01:15:00] This was all done to push an agenda on a ballroom or other types of stuff. It's just ridiculous. The reality is that the president of the United States, the current president of the United States and every president going forward. Can't go back in time. Should feel safe in that job. Sadly, we have lost presidents and there have been assassination attempts. It cannot be just part of the job. And I hope we all do a better job of, of supporting our legislators.

[01:15:27] And I just want to say, put in a plug for anyone who is out there. I won't name names, but anyone who's out there, who is trying to break down some of the division, break down some of the walls, uh, getting people to talk. Be partisan. Be partisan. Wear you that uniform. But come together and recognize that we have some shared interests in this state. Because we're going to start losing. We are already starting to lose people because they don't feel safe. And that's just not a place to be.

[01:15:56] And last thing I'm going to say, just to echo that, is it's going to have lasting impacts on how our government functions, is run, what laws are instituted. If we continue to lose some of these really crucial, great people and have a void of those willing to step up that might be filled by more extremes from both sides. That might be filled by bad actors who are working to come and manipulate the system a little bit differently.

[01:16:23] And so I think there are real ramifications that could come from this that we should all be aware of. And, you know, again, seek to do better because it's just too much and we need to, it's just too much, right? Well, Becky, great episode again. Thank you for all your work. Thank everyone for this, for joining us for this episode of The Breakdown with Brodker and Becky. Before you go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or on the platform where you listen.

[01:16:52] You could also follow us on our website and across all social media platforms at BB Breakpod. The Breakdown with Brodker and Becky will be back next week. Go Timberwolves, go wild! Woo, bye-bye.