A break down about bridging the divide: civil discourse and campaign realities

[00:00:12] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy and current affairs. I'm Michael Brodkorb. Becky is out with the weather today. It's just me and I hope I don't break this episode and don't break the podcast. We're joined this week by another panel discussion featuring Rep. Elliot Engen and Julius Hernandez. Representative Elliot Engen from White Bear Lake Township serving his first term as a Republican member of the Minnesota House of Representatives from House District 36A.

[00:00:41] representing portions of Anoka and Ramsey County. I think I got that right.

[00:00:46] And then Julius Hernandez serves as the Director of Advocacy for the Institute of Digital Humanity. He has been actively involved in DFL politics, working on races from the Minneapolis City Council, State Legislature and Congress.

[00:01:00] So we're just 27 days from the election. We're going to start by breaking down what these gentlemen are hearing on the campaign trail and kind of a hodgepodge and collection of other things.

[00:01:11] We're hearing this election cycle. Want to remind everyone that early voting has started. We encourage people to vote and we thank everyone for joining the show. Representative Engen, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for filling in knowing and not having Becky here who's the absolute brains of the operation.

[00:01:29] No, thank you so much for having me. I absolutely had a blast the last two times I've been on and always good to see Julius who actually was my first legislative staffer.

[00:01:38] Now, this is, yes, let's explain this to our listeners. This is an interesting story. You two know each other.

[00:01:44] Yeah, yeah. From the first campaign back in 2020, I think Julius and I probably knocked 5,000 doors together.

[00:01:50] So I'm excited to hear about your perspective as to how you shifted from more GOP to more DFL leaning, but also being a free thinker.

[00:01:58] I think that's emblematic of our generation. So excited to dive into that.

[00:02:02] Yeah.

[00:02:03] And Julius, that's your perspective on how you two know each other? Anything you want to clarify with the record or is that it?

[00:02:07] No, that's it. Yeah, I was. I think most people that in the DFL probably know that's how I came up in politics.

[00:02:14] I started in the GOP and yeah, I was, Elliot was the first campaign I worked on in 2020.

[00:02:19] And then I decided that that was not my way. Not because of Elliot. That's a good clarification. I still think he's a great guy.

[00:02:27] But just Elliot became a state rep and I became a Democrat. So I really lost the two here.

[00:02:32] Like the opposite of Reagan.

[00:02:34] Yeah. So it was just like, it's always good to see him. But yeah, we do know each other from times past.

[00:02:40] And now it's been a couple of years and I am a partisan hack in the DFL.

[00:02:43] We are, as I said, 27 days out from the election. And one thing I want to acknowledge at the onset is how important it is that we do this.

[00:02:50] I am a Republican, but I'm supporting Harris for president. Rep Engen is a proud member of the legislature as a Republican.

[00:02:58] And Julius is a Democrat. And I think it's so important that in this election cycle and in every election cycle,

[00:03:04] we show that people of differing backgrounds can talk, disagree with each other, but be disagreeable.

[00:03:10] And that's the space that Becky and I have created on this platform is to have those types of discussions.

[00:03:15] It's so important for us. We get people together from different backgrounds and talk.

[00:03:19] We can spin, you guys can spin, you can offer perspectives, but we leave the field of play,

[00:03:25] recognizing that we have to work together going forward.

[00:03:27] And so I really appreciate you both coming on and filling in and being on the show and offering your perspectives.

[00:03:32] But I want to start off by just saying how Minnesotan I think this is and how much I think it's important for Republicans and Democrats to do.

[00:03:38] And I thank you both for being good ambassadors for that.

[00:03:41] Thank you.

[00:03:42] Yeah.

[00:03:44] Representative, you have the election certificates. You trump us both.

[00:03:47] Why don't we start with you? Give us a perspective on what you're hearing out on the campaign trail from people.

[00:03:53] You're going door to door. You're running for a late election.

[00:03:56] What are you hearing from voters?

[00:03:57] What's your perspective on as you're running for reelection for the first time?

[00:04:00] Yeah. So I'll back up in 2020.

[00:04:04] We knocked 22,000 doors.

[00:04:06] We burned through three pairs of boots and we got to hear a lot of folks that were visibly and very tangibly frustrated with the Trump administration.

[00:04:14] It was a referendum on Donald Trump, his character, his leadership.

[00:04:18] And on the onset of COVID, how he was handling that.

[00:04:22] He never knew if going to a door, you're going to get yelled at for wearing a mask or not, because it could upset somebody either way.

[00:04:27] In 2022, we were going to doors and it seemed like the overwhelming, the overwhelming message that was resonating with folks was regarding abortion access in post-Dob's America.

[00:04:40] And this year, I don't see that.

[00:04:43] What I see is a bunch of voters who are completely put off by both parties.

[00:04:49] And they don't like the character of Donald Trump, but they also like the fact that they could afford life under him.

[00:04:55] And they don't like the policies of Democrats, but they look to be a little bit more put together right now.

[00:05:01] And so that was what I was seeing at the doorstep.

[00:05:04] People are just sick and tired of politics.

[00:05:06] They're done with the drama.

[00:05:08] They're done with the finger pointing.

[00:05:09] They want leaders who are going to put forth solutions and stop the petty political gamesmanship sideshow pieces.

[00:05:16] So that's what we're trying to be.

[00:05:18] And that's what we were in our first term.

[00:05:20] We put forward solutions instead of just pointing the finger at the Democrats and saying they're crazy.

[00:05:25] And so we're going to juxtapose our vision for a Minnesota revival versus the DFLs, in my opinion, misplaced priorities.

[00:05:33] And we'll see what happens on November 5th.

[00:05:36] But I think people are resonating with the fact that I'm a Republican who's not scared to say I don't like Trump's character.

[00:05:41] But I also like it when you've got 68% of Minnesotans right now that are living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:05:48] I know that Republican policies work.

[00:05:50] I know that we can get back to a Republican Party that is seen as one of character and one that is seen of good morals and values that I would like to adhere to and have leaders adhere to.

[00:06:01] But right now, a lot of people are having a tough time stomaching that.

[00:06:05] So that's what I'm currently seeing at the doorsteps.

[00:06:07] But I'd love to hear your perspective.

[00:06:09] I'd love to hear your perspective.

[00:06:10] Julius, let's get your take on what you're hearing at the doors right now, all campaigning.

[00:06:14] Yeah, I think it's the same, right?

[00:06:16] It's a bit of the same in the sense that it's like we're just sick of all the partisanship and the garbage that comes with both political parties.

[00:06:23] I think that's really a solid point.

[00:06:25] And I also agree.

[00:06:26] I think we're hearing a lot of I can't afford the same things that I used to be able to afford.

[00:06:31] Now, the difference I think with and this is also a matter of perspective and location, right?

[00:06:37] I'm in a city, a very blue city.

[00:06:40] And Elliott's in a very purple, I would say, district for the most part.

[00:06:44] I think people here are more concerned about things that come with Trump and the Republicans' party's platform and what they've been kind of pushing for the last couple of years.

[00:06:54] I would say Elliott mentioned abortion.

[00:06:56] That's something that's really important to people here in the city, right?

[00:06:58] They care about affordability and be able to afford their rent and be able to afford groceries.

[00:07:02] But they're also afraid that under Trump comes like a national abortion ban.

[00:07:06] Under the Republicans comes a national abortion ban, right?

[00:07:08] So I think the driving force for what I'm hearing is a lot of inner city politics versus suburban.

[00:07:17] Our lives are a little different.

[00:07:19] And I think the other thing that I hear a lot, too, is people just want the presidency to be boring again.

[00:07:25] We just don't want another four years of, oh, Donald Trump is colluding with Russia, which whatever you think about, that's what it was to think for a while.

[00:07:32] Or Joe Biden's too old and he doesn't look like he can do the presidency anymore.

[00:07:35] So I think a lot of people are just really tired and they just want to get back to a normalcy that also includes affordability, that includes progress on certain issues like housing and individual rights and things of that nature.

[00:07:48] And I think that there's a lot of similarities in what me and Elliott might hear from people that are kind of more aligned with us or that we're reaching out to.

[00:07:57] But the way that they're going about it, I think, is different.

[00:07:59] And the way people want to see it, we might be hearing different things based off of who we're talking to.

[00:08:04] And if I could jump in, of course, really good characterization.

[00:08:08] The issue is it seems as if inner city Democrat priorities were the only ones that were addressed or passed into law in the previous two years.

[00:08:18] And that's how we ended up with a 40 percent increase in state spending.

[00:08:22] That's how we ended up with a surplus that was gone faster than it could snap your fingers and 10 and a half billion in new taxes on Minnesota families.

[00:08:30] People are having a hard time getting by.

[00:08:32] They don't like both parties, like you said.

[00:08:34] You know, trust either side right now.

[00:08:36] But at the end of the day, if you can put gas in your tank and food on the table by maybe even ticket splitting and going down ballot Republican, they're willing to do that.

[00:08:45] And I think that the DFL is largely they're attacking us in such a way that it actually makes them look desperate.

[00:08:53] Every day when I open up my mailbox and I see something about how I'm weird or crazy or scary, it seems juvenile.

[00:09:01] And it seems as if they're feeding into the exact rhetoric that they decry from Donald Trump.

[00:09:06] So at the end of the day, suburban solutions is probably the best way of balancing out the rural side of Minnesota and the inner city side.

[00:09:16] This is where elections are won and lost in the suburbs.

[00:09:19] And it's also where common ground is found.

[00:09:21] And I think that whatever happens this election, both parties need to start understanding that pushing their agenda as the sole purpose of being in the legislature and constantly trying to make it about a political win rather than a win for Minnesota voters is how we get in this position.

[00:09:42] We need to stop that.

[00:09:45] Julie, is your take?

[00:09:47] Yeah, I think it's Elliot makes a really good point.

[00:09:49] One of the reasons I really like him is because he's willing to be like, yeah, my party is not doing the right thing.

[00:09:55] And that's what I try to do in my everyday life is all at our parties when they're wrong, because it's like the partisanship is garbage.

[00:10:01] But here's what I have to say, too.

[00:10:03] I think there comes a point that DFL has the trifecta for a reason, right?

[00:10:07] Because they were pushing they were giving a vision that Minnesotans wanted the last cycle around.

[00:10:12] And because Republicans can't seem to get it together.

[00:10:16] Right.

[00:10:16] And it's not just from a governance standpoint.

[00:10:19] It's from a standpoint of who are the candidates we're putting up and who are the leading voices in your caucus?

[00:10:23] We talk about him all the time on this podcast, and I hate that we give him so much airtime.

[00:10:27] But when you're a leading Senate candidate as Royce White, people are not going to trust that Republicans are trying to put a good forward legislative actions when he's out here calling himself a self-proclaimed anti-Semite.

[00:10:38] Right.

[00:10:38] When you're a leading voice as Walter Hudson, whether you like him or not, and he goes and says the things he says about the city.

[00:10:46] And that's what I'm saying.

[00:10:47] I don't have any I have I don't know him personally.

[00:10:50] I don't like what I see from him.

[00:10:51] But like the it's the it's some of the craziness that comes out of the party and the way that is portrayed by everyday like normal people that makes it seem like we can't really trust Republicans to do the things here.

[00:11:05] Here's what I will agree with you on.

[00:11:06] And I'll finish with that.

[00:11:07] Sorry.

[00:11:08] Here's what I will agree with you on.

[00:11:10] Democrats, we did poorly last legislative session when we took 18 billion dollars and spent it on a wish list of priorities that we really didn't need to.

[00:11:20] And that actually hurt us long term.

[00:11:22] So I agree with that.

[00:11:23] But yeah.

[00:11:24] And so I think I'll call my party out about that.

[00:11:26] I'm like, that was so stupid.

[00:11:27] How do we spend 18 billion dollar surplus?

[00:11:30] And now we're in a hole that we need to find a way out of the Minneapolis public school system is barely surviving.

[00:11:35] And then I agree with you on that.

[00:11:37] Right.

[00:11:38] But I don't think that there's a lot of perceived craziness out of the DFL in terms of you can say we're radical.

[00:11:45] Right.

[00:11:45] You can say some people are radical.

[00:11:47] But I can what you can't say is that the leading voices, the people who had the ticket walls, Amy Klobuchar, some of those people are not like.

[00:11:56] Giving off the same kind of energy that maybe Republicans would in in a legislative way.

[00:12:03] That's just my take on that.

[00:12:04] But I think Representative Engen would like to respond.

[00:12:08] I don't think a better liar makes you a better legislator or a better governor.

[00:12:13] I think what we see is that they govern extremely far left.

[00:12:17] And then they'll put on a camel hat and a T-shirt and go to Farm Fest and act as if they're one of the moderate blue dog Democrats that don't exist anymore.

[00:12:26] That's what I saw because I kept looking every single day to try to find DFL counterparts that would work alongside me and in good faith.

[00:12:33] And I found one in Mary Frances Clarkey, who I always speak highly of just because she's a terrific human being who is willing to set aside key differences in our value structures and in the way that we view the world.

[00:12:44] If it means getting to a consensus on something that needs to be addressed regardless of those differences and Democrats.

[00:12:52] They largely actually told Minnesota voters that they didn't care what they thought because they ran on the idea of not being the extreme party in 2022.

[00:13:02] They ran being the normal ones and they didn't govern as such.

[00:13:06] It is not normal to propose a universal basic income program for illegal immigration for illegal immigrants rather.

[00:13:13] It is not normal to impose 65 unfunded mandates on Minnesota schools after you say that you're going to fully fund them.

[00:13:19] And now we have 35 year record high in teacher layoffs.

[00:13:22] It is not a normal thing to spend that entire surplus, raise the government spending by 40 percent in one year and say that all of a sudden during election year, like right now, they're the party of middle class tax cuts.

[00:13:37] I call BS because we propose legislation that actually do such.

[00:13:44] It would have been an infant care item sales tax exemption and a back to school supply sales tax exemption.

[00:13:49] They pass unanimously out of both the House and the Senate only to die in an all DFL conference committee in the middle of the night.

[00:13:55] So they have to put their money where their mouth is.

[00:13:58] Pardon the pun.

[00:13:59] They never legislate like they run in election cycles.

[00:14:03] So that to me is what is wrong with the Democrat Party right now, whereas Republicans just don't seem like we're serious about government.

[00:14:11] We have a lot of characters who would rather say the craziest thing and get that applause line from folks who want to hear that crazy thing rather than tell the truth to their their base.

[00:14:23] So I am.

[00:14:26] Yeah, and I mean, you can't go off there.

[00:14:28] Yes, I'm a Republican.

[00:14:29] And that's one of the challenges I have.

[00:14:30] And one of the things that Becky and I have tried to do so much in this podcast is elevate voices.

[00:14:34] And I'm so appreciative that you're both here to have that discussion.

[00:14:37] But elevating voices, because this is where I think I disagree.

[00:14:42] I think we all probably disagree in some ways politically, but we can have a well-rounded conversation at this table and figure out how we move forward.

[00:14:49] What I'm curious about is both of you made a statement about kind of the tone of campaigns versus legislative reality and do that type of stuff.

[00:14:57] Representative Ingen, let me start off with you.

[00:14:59] What's your you're a first term legislator.

[00:15:01] You went through an election cycle.

[00:15:02] You won.

[00:15:02] Then you've now gone through a legislative session and now you're out on the campaign trail and you're seeing mail pieces and other type of activity show up.

[00:15:11] How give your perspective?

[00:15:13] You're Republican, but give your perspective as the truth in advertising about how campaign ads are now seen through the lens of something that you lived, which was the past legislative session.

[00:15:23] I've gotten used to hit ads.

[00:15:25] I've just gotten used to them.

[00:15:26] I see them all the time.

[00:15:26] But what's sad is that it really is untrue.

[00:15:30] Like they genuinely aren't even in the same realm as truth.

[00:15:33] If they're going to attack me on what I believe, that's fine.

[00:15:36] I can understand that.

[00:15:37] It's a good faith attack at least.

[00:15:39] But when they're saying outright lies in an attempt to create a psyop campaign and paint you out as something that you're not, that's what frustrates me.

[00:15:47] And it frustrates voters in my district here, too, because they're sick of the noise.

[00:15:52] Everybody's saying that they're sick of the noise, the left and the right.

[00:15:55] But yet they're still engaging it.

[00:15:56] We don't send out attack ads.

[00:15:58] That's not what I believe in.

[00:15:59] I believe in going to the door and convincing them that I'm the man for the job.

[00:16:02] But instead, the Democrats will just flood negative advertising campaigns into the district.

[00:16:07] And then there'll be 15 House Democrats out knocking against me, which tells me that I'm over the target.

[00:16:14] At the end of the day, if self-serving legislators, which is what I saw a lot of at the Capitol in my first term, are coming out against me, it must mean that I did something right in exposing what I believe to be a government that's working for itself rather than the voters that they're elected to serve.

[00:16:30] What about you?

[00:17:00] interesting. You're a freshman legislator, and there are members of your caucus who are supporting

[00:17:05] your opponent. They're out there campaigning. How do you help our listeners understand what's

[00:17:10] that, and how do you navigate? And Julius, I'm going to throw it back to you in a second, but

[00:17:13] I want to figure out how you navigate that political balance because what Becky and I

[00:17:18] were very impressed by with you is that for someone who's new to being in politics,

[00:17:23] freshman legislator, your head was so centered in terms of your ability to pivot

[00:17:28] and have you really had some really great perspectives on how to have conversations,

[00:17:34] not something that we normally see from people, and certainly not something that I had when I was

[00:17:39] your age. You just have, I think, a really fresh and interesting perspective about how to have

[00:17:43] conversations with people. How do you balance that when, particularly when you see colleagues out

[00:17:47] there trying to bump you off from office and make sure you lose, you're likely going to win and be

[00:17:52] back. How will you handle those types of situations? Yeah, I think that's a great question.

[00:17:57] At the end of the day, you can't take anything personally, especially in politics. If you do,

[00:18:01] you're in the wrong field for darn sure. But second, you have to be willing to recognize that the next

[00:18:06] generation, Julius and I, I think that Gen Z and millennials are a little bit more free thinking,

[00:18:11] and that's a good thing. It's actually seen as more honest. It's more authentic. It's not always

[00:18:16] looking for the political spin on an issue. It's looking for a real solution and finding ways to

[00:18:22] almost have a visionary new path forward rather than just engaging in the same political rhetoric and

[00:18:26] talking points that we've heard from the Republican Party since Reagan and Democrats since Wellstone.

[00:18:32] It seems like that's all we hear anymore, and it's not producing a better result. With a 40%

[00:18:38] increase in state spending, I don't think that there's a Minnesotan out there that would tell

[00:18:41] you that in the past two years, state government has gotten 40% better. In fact, they tell you it got

[00:18:46] worse. There's not an ROI for elected leadership anymore. They feel like they don't have a voice,

[00:18:52] and whichever party it is, they're going to have their spin on things and create their false

[00:18:58] narratives but not actually address the issue at hand and look for a solution on any given topic.

[00:19:03] What we're trying to do is cut through that noise and actually provide a solution first.

[00:19:08] If you're going to disparage the other side, which I do often, I call out Democrat policies when I think

[00:19:13] that they think, but I better have a solution first that I present because anybody can kick down the door

[00:19:19] and pound their fist on a table, but it takes a leader to propose a solution before doing so.

[00:19:25] Julius, a great answer, by the way. Let's normalize. What did you say? Normalize and knocking stuff down.

[00:19:31] Just critiquing. I think we need to normalize that a bit. There used to be a time when that was a lot

[00:19:35] more fun to do. It wasn't so serious, and I do believe that politics has gotten a little too serious,

[00:19:40] but also, so we need to introduce them. I'm someone who wore a chicken suit once because Skip Humphrey

[00:19:45] wasn't debating, so I'm a big believer in adding some humor to politics. But Julius,

[00:19:50] you've been someone at a young age who was a Republican, now a Democrat. Explain from your

[00:19:56] perspective how you see, because you're seeing it not from necessarily the elected official

[00:20:01] perspective side. You're seeing it from the perspective of someone who's sending some of

[00:20:05] that information out. How does that frame your relationships in terms of Democrats and Republicans,

[00:20:10] and how are you able to navigate that at such a young age? Yeah, I think, like you said,

[00:20:15] I was a Republican at one point. I worked with Elliot, right? I worked for him. I think one of the

[00:20:19] things we agreed on is something he talked about, which is it's so exhausting being a partisan hack.

[00:20:24] It really is. And it's also very exhausting to see a bunch of 60-year-old people fight all the time

[00:20:30] about stupid policy that doesn't really, at the end of the day, make a huge difference in

[00:20:35] people's every day-to-day life. And before I continue answering that, one thing I want to say

[00:20:41] is, like, you are also correct. It is, like, people are way too serious all the time now. Like,

[00:20:47] why are we always so angry and so serious about things that really are funny? Like,

[00:20:52] sometimes Donald Trump says something that's, like, hilarious, and I laugh at that. People are like,

[00:20:56] why are you laughing? He's such a horrible person. I'm like, dude, because he is hilarious.

[00:20:59] He just says stupid stuff that's so funny all the time. But I think,

[00:21:04] maybe from non-elected official perspective, obviously, but I think just for my own, like,

[00:21:08] being an organizer and being in policy, like, one of the things that I get to do a little bit easier

[00:21:15] is just say when people are wrong, right? Like, I don't have the pressure of the party being like,

[00:21:20] hey, you have to do this. And Elliot doesn't succumb to that, but other people do. And I think it's

[00:21:23] easier for me to say from a policy perspective when I have information and disseminate it to other

[00:21:28] people. Hey, Democrats are actually wrong about this. We have not done a good job on education.

[00:21:34] That is just the truth. That is frankly just the truth. We have done horrible on education. And you

[00:21:39] know how I know? Because the Minneapolis public school system is failing. North High School,

[00:21:45] two blocks from me, less than 30% of Black kids can read and write at grade level.

[00:21:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:50] That is disgusting to me. And that's not a Democrat or Republican issue. That is a everyone issue. That

[00:21:57] is a policymaking issue. That is a leadership issue. And that's not to say that some Democrats

[00:22:03] aren't doing a really good job of dealing with that issue, but it's to say we've been in charge of it in

[00:22:07] the city and it's not going well. So I think for me, it's always been about like, I'm so tired of

[00:22:13] the partisanship. I just want to be like, this is right or this is wrong. And if something is

[00:22:18] presented to me in a way that says Republicans are wrong about this or Democrats are wrong about

[00:22:23] this, what is the other option that I'm going to go with that? And so I think like a lot of people

[00:22:28] my age are really, a lot of people, my, mine and Elliot's age are free thinking, but they're being

[00:22:32] pushed in the wrong direction, which is like free think away from each other and figure out opposites

[00:22:38] to alternatives or opposites of each other. So me and Elliot are a Democrat or Republican, right?

[00:22:43] Naturally, people are going to say whatever Democrats do is wrong and do the Republican

[00:22:46] thing. And whatever Republicans do wrong is due to Democrat thing. But really it should be like,

[00:22:51] Hey, I think me and Elliot actually have, and most people our age and different parties actually think

[00:22:56] we should be getting to the same conclusion. And the way we want to get there is different.

[00:23:00] So how do we come together and make those work cohesively instead of trying something different

[00:23:06] every four years when someone new gets elected? And that looks like, okay, we both want the middle

[00:23:11] class to succeed because that's how this country succeeds economically. The way I want to do it

[00:23:15] looks a lot different than the way Elliot wants to do it or Elliot wants to do it. How do we do it

[00:23:19] together? How does it work together? And a lot, again, a lot of these really old people take

[00:23:24] everything super personally when they're in politics, but it's like, it doesn't, I don't care

[00:23:27] if you don't like me, if you want to get me out of office, that's your job, right? You're trying to

[00:23:30] get a majority, but if I win work with me and at least do me the favor of listening to the good

[00:23:35] ideas that I have. So I, so that's, I think that's really where it comes from for me. It's just,

[00:23:40] I'm just free to tell people when they're wrong and they're dumb. And that happens a lot.

[00:23:43] How do you guys handle both of you from different perspectives? How do you guys approach in social

[00:23:47] media, your use of it in the final 27 days here? It's a real mess. Social media can be really ugly.

[00:23:53] And how are you keeping, what are you doing to keep conversations civil, keeping, keeping people

[00:23:58] engaged? Representative, I'll start with you. Do you use social, are people pinging you a lot,

[00:24:03] asking you questions on social media? Is, if you determine whether it's a platform that's good for

[00:24:10] constituent service or answering questions, or is it too volatile right now?

[00:24:14] At the end of the day, getting back to our social media discussion, there's a lot of vitriol on

[00:24:19] there. And there's also a lot of partisan hackery, like Julia's talked about earlier,

[00:24:23] but what we're trying to do is engage in it. Oh, I've seen it. Yeah. And again, I'm guilty of it too.

[00:24:29] I think all of us are because we feel things passionately and we have values that we're willing

[00:24:33] to stick up for and principles that we want to stick up for. And that's a noble thing.

[00:24:36] Do I agree with the principles of the other side always? No. But do I agree with the principle

[00:24:40] to my side always? No. What I think is really refreshing is seeing the next generation coming up

[00:24:47] and being more willing and likely to engage in politics if it is based off of free thinking,

[00:24:54] rather than a hundred percent partisanship all the time, red or blue, one-sided thinking that is

[00:25:01] overtaking our politics currently. But they also want to see action and follow through from

[00:25:08] politicians who make promises and then don't fulfill them. Whether it's fully funding education,

[00:25:14] like we talked about, and having all these issues with our education system in Minnesota,

[00:25:18] whether it's about making life affordable and making a spin on price gouging or high taxes,

[00:25:24] stop with the narrative spinning and just give people the truth. Things are not going right now.

[00:25:28] We need leadership that has a plan to get us forward and turn the page and create a new chapter

[00:25:35] here in Minnesota. So that's my thoughts. And I definitely get pushback from my party sometimes

[00:25:41] for saying what I believe, but I think it's the right thing to do. And I think in the long run,

[00:25:45] it's going to help me lay my head on the pillow at night and be okay having done so.

[00:25:50] Julius, your use of social media. And also one thing I'll say about both of you,

[00:25:54] and I think representing is given some really good examples. I think both of you have found ways

[00:26:00] to offer some responsible critiques of your party while still being proud members of it. Talk about

[00:26:05] that, your use of social media, and then how you balance criticism inside the party while also

[00:26:10] simultaneously wanting to advance the agenda of your party. Yeah. So the social media thing,

[00:26:16] listen, I'm not, you can go to my social media, you're probably not going to get a good image of

[00:26:20] here. But it's more of, I just like to tell people when they're really dumb. If you're saying

[00:26:23] something wrong and rude, like is Julius muted? Oh, no, I'm not. Sorry. I can hear him. But yeah,

[00:26:31] I can't hear anything. What was I going to say? Sorry. So basically, I would say is,

[00:26:35] I just think that people are prone to being really rude and saying really ignorant things online,

[00:26:42] because they're not in your face. And it's like, that's what you're going to do.

[00:26:44] Then you're going to get that same kind of response from me. I'm working on it. I'm trying

[00:26:48] to get better. But I think at the end of the day, it doesn't advance anyone's agenda to just be

[00:26:54] an idiot online and act like you're a tough guy all the time. And so I think one of the things I've

[00:27:00] really challenged myself to this year and this next upcoming year on social media is to make

[00:27:04] it constructive, right? If we're having a conversation about policy, challenge my policy.

[00:27:08] Don't call me an idiot because you disagree with me. Tell me why you think I'm wrong and tell me how to

[00:27:11] make it better. And that's what I think we need to get to with social media. And I think that's

[00:27:16] something my generation struggles with as we tend to be like, you're a stupid idiot. You're dumb.

[00:27:21] You should crawl the hole and never come out of it because we disagree.

[00:27:24] Here's my advice, not to say that you're asked for advice, but let me just give you some advice

[00:27:28] on social media just because it's good for filler content. My approach to social media has always been,

[00:27:34] I will not write something on social media that I won't say to someone's face.

[00:27:38] Right. And so my point is to say, my point is to say that I won't say, won't write something or say

[00:27:45] something on social media that I wouldn't say to someone's face. And that's a good, it's just a good

[00:27:49] rule of thumb that I've come up with. Feel free to use it.

[00:27:52] And the other thing too, is like Elliot said, like we get super passionate, right? We're very passionate

[00:27:56] people about the things that we do. And so sometimes you just get caught up in the moment and you're

[00:27:59] like, Ooh, I shouldn't have said that. And you delete it. And that's one thing I've been,

[00:28:02] I think everyone needs to work on is we tend to have these like super constant online interactions.

[00:28:07] And then we don't in person. And that's what actually is making politics worse because

[00:28:11] we can go on social media and call someone an idiot and then not have to see them if we ever really don't

[00:28:15] want to. But I think the other part of that question about how do you balance the criticism

[00:28:19] of your own party and be a proud member of it is if you love something, you want it to be better.

[00:28:25] And the only way to make it better is to make it, to critique the parts that are going wrong.

[00:28:30] Yeah. Like for Democrats, like when we are wrong, we need to be challenged, right?

[00:28:35] We generally are the majority governing party in most of the country. And some things are just not

[00:28:41] working for us. And some things are, and when they are, you lift them up and you say, Hey,

[00:28:45] this is what's really good. And here's why it's really good. And if something isn't working,

[00:28:48] you're supposed to say, Hey, this does not work at all. And we need to fix it because if we don't,

[00:28:54] we're going to lose people to the vision that we have for the future. So like an example,

[00:28:58] San Francisco, like basically went, was super, super far left, had all these very left people

[00:29:07] leading and leading the charge in their city. And it got really bad because of the policies they were

[00:29:13] putting in place. They made a turn towards the middle and had this ideological shift. And now

[00:29:18] San Francisco is going more towards being like moderate Democrats and the city is becoming better.

[00:29:25] So I think it's like being willing to say, I really love this organization. I love the mission that

[00:29:30] we stand for as Democrats. And I want us to be better because if we don't, we're putting a lot

[00:29:35] of people's lives at risk by not doing the right thing when it comes to policy and when it comes to

[00:29:41] some of these important issues. And so if someone doesn't like me, because I say that Democratic party

[00:29:46] is wrong on something, Oh, but I know that I'm doing the right thing. And I'm in the moral,

[00:29:50] I have the moral high ground because I'm willing to step out and criticize something when it's

[00:29:54] wrong. And I'm also willing to say when something's right. And I think generally what

[00:30:00] you'll find in most parties is people aren't willing to do that because they're scared of

[00:30:05] getting pushback. But if you know anything about me, or if you've seen me in person before,

[00:30:10] like when I interact with people, I just really don't care because I know that people's, again,

[00:30:14] people's lives are at risk. And that sounds so like dramatic, but it's true. If we don't do the

[00:30:19] right thing on policy, our kids are failing in this city and they will continue to fail and their

[00:30:23] kids will continue to fail when it comes to education policy. And we need to be willing

[00:30:27] to call that out. So yeah, I could jump in on that. I think you made a couple of really good

[00:30:32] points. And then a couple that I want to push back on. We have to be willing to call out extremism

[00:30:36] on our own side. I think that's, that's a test of character. That's a test of somebody who's a leader

[00:30:40] versus just going along to get along and not wanting to upset the apple cart amongst your own base.

[00:30:46] So we have to do that. But also we have to recognize that the other side might actually be

[00:30:54] right on something and engaging in that conversation as to what it, where it is that they're coming from

[00:30:59] versus just doubling down on your own partisan talking point. Like we can do that. I've done it

[00:31:05] on issues, but there wasn't much willingness from Democrats to ever accept a Republican idea as a good

[00:31:11] one. And we might be weird sometimes. I get it. There's a lot of us out there that are, and I'll

[00:31:16] call that out. But when we're not, and we actually have a tangible solution to something like school

[00:31:21] safety, which was an issue that I was really passionate about in my first term. Why would we

[00:31:27] not engage in that discussion from a perspective that is outside of the same narrative that politicians

[00:31:33] have been using for decades when it comes to just the gun control debate? You see a tragedy occur

[00:31:38] at a school and politicians will immediately jump to it's the guns or it's not the guns.

[00:31:42] We had a completely outside perspective to try to solve this issue as politicians continue to bicker

[00:31:47] about it. And because it was seen as a Republican one, it still wasn't given the time of day or a

[00:31:53] committee hearing. That's what we need to start recognizing amongst our own parties is that

[00:31:57] in the pursuit of political power, you're actually throwing away public service in and of itself.

[00:32:05] Great answer. Great answer. Julius.

[00:32:08] Sorry. Yeah, I was just going to say really quickly too, I think, and I think I've referenced

[00:32:11] him every single time I've been on the podcast, but Frank Luntz, one of the best pollsters in history,

[00:32:16] one will go down as one of the greatest says he talks about, and he does the

[00:32:22] Democratic Governors Association meeting. I think he does or the Governors Association, something like

[00:32:27] that. And he talks about there is a way to run a race where it's not negative. You don't have to run

[00:32:32] a negative race. And I think that we've gotten such a political mindset where everything has to be

[00:32:37] don't pick them because they're bad and not why I'm the better option. And I think media, social media,

[00:32:45] money has played a really big part in the super hyper partisanship of people getting too stuck into

[00:32:50] being like radically Democrat or radically Republican and not being willing to admit when they're wrong.

[00:32:56] And if I ever run for public office, hope to God I don't. But if I do end up in that situation,

[00:33:01] I don't want to run a negative campaign. I don't care if you're good or bad. I'm just going to tell you

[00:33:06] why I'm better. And I think that's something that we need to get down to, back to.

[00:33:10] And I think that there's almost a willingness to want to engage in the negative campaigning because

[00:33:15] the other side does it so hard. Like I've never done negative campaigns. It's just not something

[00:33:19] that I do. I don't think that it's right. I want to win based off of the merits of my ideas alone.

[00:33:23] But when you have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars negative campaigning,

[00:33:27] just smearing lies about you, it's tough to not respond in kind. So calling out those lies on

[00:33:33] either side is first and foremost. But we also have to recognize that there's some extremisms

[00:33:39] that are now being seen as commonplace on the modern day political left. I think that as we've

[00:33:47] seen that political spectrum of right and left occur, the right hasn't changed much when it comes

[00:33:52] to policy positions. We still believe in a limited government structure. We still believe

[00:33:56] in lower taxes, allowing innovation to thrive through a free market structure. Like those

[00:34:00] are things that Republicans have believed for forever. Democrats used to believe that alongside

[00:34:05] us. And now they're saying that they just straight up don't. Heck, our tax chair in the House was

[00:34:10] a self-proclaimed socialist. So where do we call out the extremism in our own side, even if it's

[00:34:17] something that might be seen as more normal because of that constant shift towards the left?

[00:34:24] Julius, you might have a better answer for me on this because you've seen that.

[00:34:29] I think it's important. Julius, go ahead.

[00:34:32] Yeah, I was going to say, I think this is where I get caught up, right? This is so it's, oh,

[00:34:37] the right hasn't really changed that much, but the left has. Is that true? And like, where's the

[00:34:42] reality that we're living in when it comes to that? And I'm not saying it's not an attack on you.

[00:34:45] It's just in my mind, when Marjorie Taylor Greene says the government is controlling the weather,

[00:34:50] that seems like a pretty significant shift.

[00:34:52] I would say that's not.

[00:34:53] That'd be like, let's think Phil and Omar is representative.

[00:34:57] Yeah, for sure.

[00:34:58] And one of the things, one of the things I'll say, Julius, is what we try to do. And I know you

[00:35:02] agree with this too. I think there's a, I think that there's a kind of guilt by association game

[00:35:07] that goes on in politics and it's on both sides. And it's in, first of all, let me just say

[00:35:12] the reason, unfortunately I wish when I give speeches and talk in classrooms, whether it's

[00:35:18] generally been like senior, like high school classes, college, or in any classes, people

[00:35:23] always ask me, why are, why is politics so negative? Because it works. Unfortunately, it

[00:35:27] works. Negative politics works. Just a great quick story. And I want to be sensitive everyone's

[00:35:32] time. When I was, I got married in Iowa, Petersburg, Iowa, the priest was officiating my

[00:35:39] wedding and he went off, off message. And he was asking me, cause he knew I was in politics. He said,

[00:35:44] and the church was full with people, my family, my wife's family, my wife is from Iowa. And they,

[00:35:49] the priest was like, and he said, what is, what makes, tell me why campaigns work? What, tell me

[00:35:56] what a successful, what helps campaigns win? How do campaigns win? What he wanted me to say

[00:36:01] was a plan. And he was, his lesson was to say, Hey, you're going into a marriage here. Make sure to

[00:36:06] have a plan. My response in front of the entire congregation, the entire church was to say negative

[00:36:11] ads. Everyone laughed. Political operative. And that was my answer. And there's video of it somewhere,

[00:36:18] but that was honestly my answer. And so negative politics works and it's unfortunate, but it does

[00:36:22] works in politics, but doesn't work in public service. It doesn't get us any closer to solving

[00:36:26] an issue. Right. And I think people are so sick and tired of the negativity because it's so constant.

[00:36:32] We just see it as a spun narrative nowadays. Yeah. And that's why we have to have a plan forward as a

[00:36:39] party and as an individual before party. We put forward legislation to tackle all of the main issues

[00:36:46] that I heard about from voters in my district when I went and talked to them on their doorstep. But then

[00:36:51] there are some Republicans who would rather sit on their hands, do nothing, just point to the left and

[00:36:55] call them crazy. And on the other side, there are Democrat legislators in very swing districts who do

[00:37:02] not represent the true inherent values of that district and would vote for the most far left

[00:37:09] policy if it meant sticking with the team. I think both of those circumstances, the party is being put

[00:37:15] before the policy and it should be called out as such. Yeah. I got one question before I go to closing.

[00:37:22] Are either of you on TikTok? Oh, yes. I watched too much TikTok. So I just joined TikTok the last

[00:37:31] few days. I'm giving a shout out to those who are listening and follow me on TikTok. I'm just, yes.

[00:37:36] Say, what did you say? I said Chinese sellout. I know. I just try to do it. I'm just learning,

[00:37:42] trying to get engaged, trying to learn new things. Hey, look, I'm 50. I'm going to be 51 soon. I have

[00:37:47] to learn new things to keep my brain spongy or I'll be withering away soon. And so I have to try these

[00:37:53] new things. I was looking for some bipartisan TikTok advice, but Representative Ingen hasn't

[00:37:58] succumbed yet to the CCP. So I'm going to have to do it alone. I will say this. Let me just say

[00:38:03] this in closing. I really appreciate you guys coming out. You obviously know each other, have a prior

[00:38:08] existing relationship. So the ribbing was good natured, but there was some elbows today. I just have

[00:38:13] to say to both of you, I really appreciate the fact that your willingness to come on and have

[00:38:19] discussions. And as they say in Days of Thunder, have you guys seen Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise?

[00:38:25] Absolutely not. Okay. I mean, a movie reference. You guys haven't seen Days. Do you know who Tom

[00:38:32] Cruise is? Have you seen Days of... There's a movie with Tom Cruise. It's called Days of Thunder. He's a

[00:38:38] race car driver. And he says, rubbing is racing. And his name is Cole Trickle in the movie, which is

[00:38:43] just a fantastic name. He says, rubbing is racing. And rubbing sometimes on this show, and it happens

[00:38:48] in politics. My dad used to say, you can't play hockey, Michael, without going in the corner and

[00:38:53] getting checked. And that's just a part of it. And so that happens sometimes. And as much as we'd like

[00:38:57] to alleviate some of that back and forth, some of that rubbing, some of those elbows, it happens

[00:39:02] sometimes in politics. And I appreciate you guys coming on and being such good ambassadors for people

[00:39:06] talking and encouraging people to both. You're obviously both on different sides of the political

[00:39:12] lens, but you're both willing to come out and have those discussions. And this is what Minnesotans

[00:39:17] need to see. We need to see examples of good leaders like you, two people young who are critics

[00:39:23] of your party, but also want them to succeed. And that's a fresh perspective. And it's such an

[00:39:28] important perspective. And I'm so appreciative with 27 days left that you both made time on this busy day

[00:39:35] to talk. Four weeks from today, we're voting and election is going to happen. And so where can

[00:39:42] people follow you, not on TikTok, but where can people follow you, Rep Banging, on social media?

[00:39:47] First, before I let people know all the handles and hashtags, all that stuff, thank you for doing this.

[00:39:53] I know you've gotten probably some heat from folks on the Republican side for coming out and

[00:39:57] endorsing Kamala. To be honest, I'm sick and tired of the national politics. It's not my circus.

[00:40:01] Those aren't my monkeys. I'm not trying to engage in those types of discussions. But what I will say

[00:40:06] is that in a completely liberal society, this is just an analogy, but you might have fever all the

[00:40:13] time for the apple if you're hungry and you have a starving family. And in a completely conservative

[00:40:18] society, you'd have everybody's hand chopped off for having taken that apple, even when they needed it.

[00:40:24] And it might be a kind of a goofy analogy here, but we balance each other out without even knowing.

[00:40:29] I think that partisanship in and of itself is always attempting to paint the world as either

[00:40:34] black or white, when in reality, there's a lot more gray. And giving each other some grace at the

[00:40:39] election is what we should do, regardless of whether or not we take the majority in the House.

[00:40:44] I hope to God we do bring some balance back, whichever way it goes. At the end of it, on November 6th,

[00:40:51] see each other as neighbors again, and not just political enemies because they have a different

[00:40:55] sign in the yard. That's what I think conversations like this lead to. And so I appreciate it.

[00:40:59] I appreciate it so much. And I'm going to give you both grace for not knowing war games or days of

[00:41:04] thunder. We'll start with that. Okay. Repping and where can people follow you at?

[00:41:09] Elliot Eng and MN on any of those social media platforms, except for TikTok,

[00:41:13] because we don't sell it to the Chinese.

[00:41:15] Are you on MySpace?

[00:41:17] No, I think I was probably about eight years old when MySpace was.

[00:41:21] I walked right into that one. Julius, where are you at?

[00:41:24] Yeah, Twitter. You can just follow me, JuliusH34. Julius Caesar.

[00:41:31] We want to thank you for listening to The Breakdown with Broadcom and Becky.

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[00:41:46] at at BB Breakpot, The Breakdown with Broadcom and Becky will return this week.

[00:41:52] Thank you for listening.