A break down about illegal vaping, and harassment of Rep. Mary Franson

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Breakdown with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics,

[00:00:17] policy and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherr. And I'm Michael Brodkorb.

[00:00:22] We are here today with an episode covering two important topics. First, we interview

[00:00:26] Richard Mariano. Richard is a senior law enforcement consultant and has served over 27 years at

[00:00:32] the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives. He currently teaches courses

[00:00:37] for law enforcement executives at Georgetown University. We are speaking to Richard about

[00:00:42] all things vaping. He is currently in St. Paul for a conference where he is leading

[00:00:46] a conversation about the ongoing battle against illegal vaping products. With Richard,

[00:00:52] we will break down how he got into this role and the failures around vape regulations. We will discuss

[00:00:58] flavored products and break down how they target kids. Second, we're going to focus on a

[00:01:03] concerning situation surrounding a DFL endorsed candidate for the Minnesota Legislature.

[00:01:08] At a recent convention in House District 12B in Douglas County, the local DFL

[00:01:12] party endorsed a man by the name of Judd Hoff. Hoff has a history of troubling behavior

[00:01:17] targeting incumbent Republican Representative Mary Franzen. He has publicly harassed Franzen,

[00:01:23] has dug through her garbage, protested outside her home and has gone so far as to move into the

[00:01:28] home directly across the street from Franzen. Hoff also has a stunning and disturbing criminal

[00:01:34] background. In 2020, Hoff wielded a 23-inch machete against someone for which she was later

[00:01:40] convicted of a felony second degree assault. Today, Becky and I will break down how someone

[00:01:45] with this background can get endorsed by a major political party in the state.

[00:01:50] We will dig into his background further and detail how troubling and dangerous this situation

[00:01:56] truly is. And then we'll break down recent reaction from other Democrats and Republicans

[00:02:01] in the state. Thank you for joining us today, and we hope you enjoy the show.

[00:02:08] Thank you for joining us today, Richard. We are excited to hear

[00:02:11] a little bit more about you and a little bit more of your area of expertise. So can you start by

[00:02:16] just telling us a little bit about how you got to the point where you are, your background,

[00:02:21] your work history and a little bit about what you've been doing over the last few decades?

[00:02:26] Thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor to get this message out. I think it's

[00:02:31] extremely important for the community, the parents, for law enforcement to understand what

[00:02:36] the real threat is and how these vape products are creating an epidemic amongst our children

[00:02:44] in really a disruptive environment. A quick background on myself, I retired after 27 years

[00:02:50] with ATF. I was blessed to become the assistant director. Not that I am a subject matter expert

[00:02:57] by any means, but I had great people throughout the years that worked for me and made myself

[00:03:03] look very good. Subsequently, I dropped my master's degree at the University of Colorado

[00:03:08] and I began teaching where I'm teaching now at Georgetown University. And that's where this

[00:03:13] plays in a little bit because I've used in case studies on international organized crime

[00:03:19] to talk quite a bit and have my students work on criminal tobacco trafficking and right now

[00:03:25] specifically on Chinese organized crime manufacturing, distributing these vape products

[00:03:33] throughout the United States that are making a tremendous amount of money in the backs for

[00:03:38] children. So I want to get into the history of this a little bit because I think it's something

[00:03:44] that I know a little bit about here and there. These obviously came up over the last five,

[00:03:50] ten years really came into popularity with Juul and Minnesota had a big lawsuit with Juul. And

[00:03:56] I've known and read about different bans and different implementations of restrictions,

[00:04:01] especially for restrictions when it comes to kids and targeting children. But can you talk

[00:04:06] to us a little bit about more of the kind of failed attempt by the FDA to regulate this

[00:04:10] market? I would be glad to. Originally, the vape product was designed as a tobacco harm

[00:04:17] reduction device. It was to get people away from combustible cigarettes, which every study

[00:04:22] on the planet Earth understands that it is detrimental to someone's health. Even when the

[00:04:27] Surgeon General Warnings of the 60s came out, America was advised don't smoke. So these

[00:04:32] products, when they came into the forefront, the original idea was to get people away from

[00:04:38] combustibles. Some products perhaps targeted youth at the time that was manufactured by

[00:04:45] U.S. industry. And subsequently, the FDA got involved. And what they did is put together a

[00:04:51] pre-marketing agreement where they evaluated by United States industry, by the tobacco

[00:04:59] companies on what was considered a tobacco harm sensation device and that could be sold

[00:05:06] under FDA standards. Currently, there's between 20 and 25 different devices that the FDA has

[00:05:12] approved that are manufactured by companies in the United States to get people away from

[00:05:17] combustibles. Good thing. In the midst, what has happened is the Chinese organized crime groups

[00:05:26] have realized that it's such a huge market that they had began to prey on not first the

[00:05:35] population by creating flavored devices or devices marketed as gummy bear, Captain Crunch,

[00:05:42] Tutti Frutti, specifically designed to addict kids or young adults to these devices.

[00:05:50] We're discussing a little bit the manufacturing. These are manufactured in China and what has

[00:05:55] been labeled kind of Vape Valley. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[00:05:59] Yes, I can. Right now, the Xinjiang Valley in China, which is considered by members of the

[00:06:05] industry and by international law enforcement as the Vape Valley, it is almost like what I would

[00:06:10] equate to Detroit as the General Motors where they have sophisticated factories, where they make

[00:06:15] billions upon billions of these products, test them and evaluate them for their addictive qualities

[00:06:21] and then ship them illegally to the United States. This is not something just to brush

[00:06:25] off, but I think it's important for your listeners and for the community to understand

[00:06:30] the Chinese Communist Party and Chinese organized crime right now is making close to $300 billion

[00:06:39] on the backs of our kids. What frustrates myself and many people that are working this issue is

[00:06:45] we consider China our number one national security threat. If we know and have identified

[00:06:51] where they're gaining illicit illegal assets to the tune of $300 billion,

[00:06:57] why we're not trying to put a better full call press to stop them is unbeknownst to me.

[00:07:03] How are Chinese Vape products getting into the United States?

[00:07:08] Through many ways. They come in the ports, they come in through

[00:07:12] airports like O'Hare in Chicago is one of the biggest air destinations. They're at the port

[00:07:18] of Los Angeles, they're coming in through shipping lanes into the upper eastern seaboard,

[00:07:24] but they're also coming in through disguises and that's what is frustrating law enforcement

[00:07:30] is we're doing an excellent job of protecting our country from large amounts of narcotics

[00:07:36] through protecting ourselves from biological, radiological things coming into the United States

[00:07:42] and our war on terror. But the bad guys know this and they're using other means to

[00:07:47] bring these things in that cannot be detected and they're shipping them through

[00:07:52] what I want to say is covert operations and in many times the threat to national security

[00:07:58] is paramount and that's what needs our biggest dedicated efforts. So if you were to talk to a

[00:08:04] member of US border protection, they're going to look at what is a threat and what isn't.

[00:08:09] So if they're shipping things through let's say stuffed animals like that we've seen on TV

[00:08:14] before that they've shipped in narcotics in the past or the criminal organizations

[00:08:17] organizations or TV boxes or whatever it may be. That's going to take less of a priority in terms

[00:08:24] of what needs to be done and that is what they're exploiting ascent by bringing them in.

[00:08:28] They come in to distributors, they go to retailers and the retailers are selling a product

[00:08:35] that right now is 100% illegal. It's a criminal product by the FDA and that is the

[00:08:42] challenging part for communities that though it's a violation of federal law, it's very hard

[00:08:47] to enforce because many places don't have the authority to enforce that.

[00:08:52] So you're laying out a scenario by which vape products so manufactured in China

[00:08:59] in this vape valley that are targeting our kids are being imported into the United States

[00:09:04] illegally correct? And they are handing up on the shelves and being sold then legally?

[00:09:11] 100% illegally and in defense to the FDA they don't have the resources nor the money

[00:09:17] to go out there to every one of these shops because they're everywhere and begin to do the

[00:09:22] accurate inspections to take it off the shelves to find arrest or whatever is necessary

[00:09:28] to deter this behavior and it is going wild. Some of the things that are becoming successful

[00:09:34] I don't want to be the complete bearer of doom and gloom or the ER of your show right

[00:09:39] now but what I'd like to share is many states now are developing their own vapor directories

[00:09:46] and I think this is a very successful strategy because it is allowing states to take matters

[00:09:51] into their own hands and to use their resources to identify what is FDA approved,

[00:09:58] what is illegal and allowing let's say like in Oklahoma where they have tax investigators

[00:10:06] that can go to these shops, seize these products, put some of these stores that

[00:10:11] are preying on our children out of business and creating a safer environment. Are we going to

[00:10:16] stop this? We need to be realistic it's like narcotics there is a great demand out there

[00:10:20] but what we need to do is also understand we need to begin to deter it. We need to put

[00:10:26] together a program of education which is not out there right now it has to be very similar

[00:10:31] to DARE. We have to educate our parents, our school resources, our counselors, our law enforcement

[00:10:39] and we need to take strict, stringent law enforcement action against these individuals

[00:10:44] that are preying on our kids. This is our number one greatest asset in this country

[00:10:49] right now is our children. We cannot have them become victims anymore to a foreign government,

[00:10:54] a national security threat that is making money hand over fist against what we cherish the most.

[00:11:02] Now it sounds like there are just is a plethora of issues concerning this right so we've got the

[00:11:08] illegal Chinese imports, we've got these products that were maybe originally intended to help

[00:11:14] people stop smoking cigarettes that are now becoming more addictive and an issue there

[00:11:20] and then the targeting of children. So I know we have a million dollar question here and

[00:11:25] we'll get into kind of what some states are doing but how do we if we're focusing on

[00:11:29] the kids in addition to I remember back in the day of cigarettes and Joe Camel and all

[00:11:35] of these advertisements and obviously things were done to tailor that and make that not

[00:11:41] targeting children. What when we come to kids, I have an almost two-year-old, Michael's got some

[00:11:45] teenage kids, what can be done to make sure that these kids are not drawn into this? This

[00:11:50] is the cool thing, the popular thing, it tastes good, they can do it without getting caught.

[00:11:54] How do we address that? First we have to understand as a public in general that the

[00:11:58] industry is not the enemy, who is the enemy here? Okay and focus our resources on not the

[00:12:04] tobacco manufacturers of the companies in the United States or even if it's an outside the

[00:12:09] industry that's making a safe product that's been approved but who the enemy is and what

[00:12:15] they're doing. Second we have to create a situation where our school resource officers

[00:12:21] have to engage and the hard part right now since 2020 is we've cut back on law enforcement

[00:12:28] issues and we've taken many school resource officers out of the schools. The ones that are

[00:12:33] in schools are now burdened and I say burdened with spending sometimes 35 hours out of their

[00:12:41] 40-hour week handing out fake referrals. They can't concentrate on cyber bullying anymore,

[00:12:48] they can't concentrate on perhaps gun threats in the schools, fights, narcotics, all the

[00:12:53] things that we want them to do in terms of serving protecting where they're regulating

[00:12:58] and harassing but this is can't not be fought on a one front. This is a multiple front war

[00:13:04] that needs to be brought on to address this challenge and there are many entities that have

[00:13:11] to be involved in it and you'll hear parents saying that's just vape, it's not just vape.

[00:13:18] Some of these devices contain 5,000 puffs. There's a product out there and I don't even

[00:13:24] want to give it the satisfaction of advertising for it but contains 5,000 puffs where some of

[00:13:30] these young adults can puff on these things all day long and it's like ingesting cartons

[00:13:36] and cartons of cigarettes so the nicotine addiction by the time they go to school

[00:13:41] is distracting, they can't concentrate on their schoolwork, they're a disruption to

[00:13:46] the classroom, they're disruptions to the administrators, the teachers,

[00:13:50] the school resource officers and until we take aggressive action against these perpetrators

[00:13:56] this will continue. This is not something we can take lightly and just blow off that

[00:14:01] it's a face. This is not a face. It is a huge marketing campaign if you go on social media

[00:14:07] to see what the Chinese government has put together. If you go on a website made in China

[00:14:12] it will give you thousands and thousands of different products that these illicit distributors

[00:14:18] can have directly shipped to them that we need to be putting a stop on. We need to stop

[00:14:23] that site from being brought into our computers. We need to go after these distributors and

[00:14:30] retailers that are illegally selling it and the sad part is we have very good community

[00:14:36] people out there that said okay I understand FDA says bad we got to get away from it. We're

[00:14:42] not going to sell it. There's been some very responsible retailers but there's others that

[00:14:47] realize the FDA doesn't have the resources, they realize that the odds of me getting a

[00:14:53] $5,000 ticket I can afford it because I sell $40,000 in this product a week.

[00:15:00] We have to take action. We cannot sit and the time is right now to begin a program rather

[00:15:05] than wait till it's too late and I say sometimes my frustration exists with the United States

[00:15:11] government to occlude the three-letter agencies. It takes them three hours to watch 60 minutes.

[00:15:16] We need them to get up to stand up to the plate and address this problem immediately.

[00:15:23] It is not going to go away and it's going to create more disruption as ever before.

[00:15:29] Richard, I live in Eagan Minnesota. There are vape shops I believe in Eagan.

[00:15:34] What the scenario you're describing here is that an owner of a vape shop and I'm not passing any

[00:15:39] disparagement on any of the vape shops that are in Eagan but what you're saying is someone could

[00:15:46] go online, figure out that these are the products that they want to sell,

[00:15:51] bring them and ship them directly to their store and sell them.

[00:15:55] The only reason why that kind of process would be stopped is by some is either the ethics

[00:16:02] or morals of the shop owner in determining that they don't want to sell these types of products

[00:16:07] or someone coming in and doing a spot check on what type of products they're selling.

[00:16:15] Is that the only safeguard that's currently stopping these types of products from being

[00:16:19] sold? It's shop owners having the ethics and morals not to sell them

[00:16:24] and someone catching them doing it. Is that it?

[00:16:26] Right now you've pretty much identified the problem. The FDA is because of their lack of

[00:16:34] resources and their inability to gather the money necessary and it's not an indictment

[00:16:39] against the FDA, but it is as much as they need the resource and the money and many

[00:16:47] of these states need these directories to go out there and take care of the problem by

[00:16:52] themselves. There's just not enough investigators or regulators that can go to all these vape

[00:16:58] shops. If I was king of the world and I say this when I teach my class and we work through

[00:17:02] different scenarios, how would you handle it? Like one of the papers that I had my students

[00:17:06] write that if you were in charge of the FDA over this initiative, how would you handle it?

[00:17:11] One of the biggest ways is to take some of that federal money, bring it to the communities

[00:17:16] and go to groups inside your law enforcement entity or your community groups, whether it's

[00:17:23] your liquor license enforcement, but go to your licensing establishments and do license checks

[00:17:29] and have that ability immediately that if they're selling the products to fine them,

[00:17:34] maybe second time a criminal offense, third time a death penalty to take the license

[00:17:39] and put them out of business because these are 100% criminal contraband and the owners need to

[00:17:46] have some fear of deterrent. They need to realize that, okay, if I don't play by the rules,

[00:17:51] I will face a fine. Deterrence works here, but it has to be established and right now

[00:17:58] the mechanisms are not in place correctly to jump on this right now.

[00:18:02] We're right now in the early phases. We can begin to do it, but we cannot sit on our hands.

[00:18:07] It must be done just like you were saying, Mike. Your kids, I'm sure, have given you

[00:18:13] tons of information on how much of a problem this is in schools. If you talk to any counselor,

[00:18:19] any principal, the majority of them will say, this is our biggest concern. What was guns

[00:18:26] 20 years ago is now vapes being sold because of the money these kids can make selling them out

[00:18:32] of backpacks or the extreme use or the devices they're buying to use them in schools.

[00:18:39] It was in preparation for this, I was looking at some of the states that have been working on

[00:18:44] or implementing. It looks like Utah is considering a ban. There's a dozen or so states that have

[00:18:50] some sort of ban, either banning online sales or flavors. What's your take on how things are

[00:18:56] progressing? Is it coming along fast enough and organically state by state or is there going

[00:19:02] to, is this something we should expect to see more bans from more states as we move forward?

[00:19:08] I think we will see more, but we need to see them quicker. Some problems in some states are

[00:19:14] different entities that are saying that industry is behind this, that industry wants to put them

[00:19:20] out of business. That has nothing to do with it. Industry selling a product that's regulated

[00:19:25] and approved by the FDA. If these Chinese products were regulated and approved by the

[00:19:30] FDA, they would be allowed to sell. They can't because they're marketed to children,

[00:19:36] they're dangerous and they're illegal. That's what people need to understand and that becomes

[00:19:41] what I want to say a fork in the road where the wrong people are blamed behind the wrong

[00:19:46] narrative. If we need to concentrate on criminal activity here, this is where it points to. It's

[00:19:52] like a lightning rod to all this controversy. It'd be very easy if let's say the group in

[00:19:57] the Sinjin Valley and the Vape Valley one manufacturer, let's call it Doby Bar,

[00:20:03] were come out and it passed the PTMA agreement, then that would be allowed to be sold as a

[00:20:11] tobacco harm reduction device. But right now none of their products are approved,

[00:20:17] they're all illegal and I think that's what we need to concentrate on. This is not an

[00:20:22] effort by big tobacco, small tobacco, medium tobacco, cigar shops. This has nothing to do

[00:20:29] with that. This has to do with criminals making money on our kids. And the reality is that

[00:20:40] the name of this is bubble gum. The name of these are cotton candy. These are targeted

[00:20:44] towards kids. They're targeted towards kids and again it's just I feel like we're growing up

[00:20:50] in a much more difficult time. Everything seems just more difficult time. It's just a challenge

[00:20:56] right now for kids and this is just another added dynamic of kids growing up and this

[00:21:00] is something it's also another way to discuss issues related to the border. Border is one

[00:21:05] of the top issues that's going to be in this election cycle and this is another way to look

[00:21:10] at problems going on at the border. And the borders are porous in some cases, in some areas

[00:21:16] and also they figure out other ways to get these products through. Our southwest border is one

[00:21:22] example where they're bringing things through the same routes that they use to bring in

[00:21:26] narcotics. Why reinvent the wheel? It has been successful, it's still successful, it's bringing

[00:21:32] record amounts of fentanyl and methamphetamine. Let's bring in vapes and they're doing it.

[00:21:38] There's money to be made and where there's money to be made, Mr. Criminal finds it.

[00:21:42] Correct.

[00:21:45] Last thing I have is I just wanted to touch on as I was reading some of these articles,

[00:21:50] some of the speculation or concerns that you know folks opposing bans have claimed. One I saw

[00:21:56] that does a ban help big tobacco because it's taking away some of those safe ways for people

[00:22:01] to stop smoking? Is this a personal responsibility thing? You know where Michael and I come from

[00:22:07] partisan Republican backgrounds. Is this something that government needs to be involved in? What

[00:22:11] are your answers to people that look at either those things that we don't need more government

[00:22:16] bans or this is just going to turn back and swing back to benefit big tobacco?

[00:22:22] I don't think it's benefiting big tobacco because if you look at what they manufacture

[00:22:27] and sell that has already been approved, they're not selling gummy bear. None of these

[00:22:32] products we're talking about today were manufactured with the Simpsons cartoon characters

[00:22:37] on there specifically designed the kids. They're not manufacturing hoodie sweatshirts where you

[00:22:42] could suck on a vape through your eyelets to hide and conceal yourself. That is another

[00:22:48] products that are being manufactured by organized crime. Really? These kids, yes. What we need

[00:22:54] to understand is bipartisan whether it's Republican or Democrat it needs to be taken

[00:23:02] seriously. Some of my frustration right now is there's a menthol ban out right now which has

[00:23:08] been a legal product for 70 years, an adult product that the administration's looking at

[00:23:15] putting a ban against when this is far greater threats to national security in our children

[00:23:22] than anything before. They need to wake up all politicians and prioritize this and understand

[00:23:28] this is more important than TikTok, a menthol ban or whatever five minutes of fame they're going

[00:23:34] to get standing in front of a microphone and concentrate on what the American people,

[00:23:39] the parents need, the cops need, the teachers needs. Put our needs first please.

[00:23:47] Richard you have put a very fine point on a subject that I had not known enough about

[00:23:53] prior to you coming on the podcast and I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to talk

[00:23:57] with you today for Becky and I to speak to you, talk with you and follow this issue as a parent.

[00:24:04] But there's one thing that I think Becky and I try to do particularly as parents is anytime we

[00:24:08] have an opportunity to talk on a subject that impacts kids we're always going to do it.

[00:24:13] And so what you're doing out there is important and the work that you're doing is important.

[00:24:18] Where can people follow you to learn more about this issue and more about your work that's going on?

[00:24:24] That's great and I'm so glad you're giving me the opportunity because myself, some students,

[00:24:29] there's a counselor that has put together a website. It's called www.illegovabes.com.

[00:24:36] It's updated every day with stories around the country. Some that are successful,

[00:24:40] some that aren't working that well. Also studies but it's particularly targeting

[00:24:46] educators, student school resource officers, parents and it gives people the opportunity to

[00:24:52] see what is going on around the country and what is important in this arena to bring the subject

[00:24:58] matter to its forefront. If I can ask your listeners to do anything is to please step up

[00:25:06] to the plate. Write op-eds, contact your local legislators, engage with your parents groups,

[00:25:15] your counselors, your administrators and advise them of how important this issue is.

[00:25:22] Share your podcast with every one of them. Put them on your email list

[00:25:25] and blast it out there. It's the right thing to do. I'm not selling anything here except

[00:25:33] falling into a situation of one of the biggest threats of national security making money on our

[00:25:38] kids backs and we need to do something and we need it now. Richard, I want to thank you so

[00:25:43] much for being here today and for taking time to talk with us. What you're doing is so important

[00:25:48] and on behalf of three kids myself, I want to extend my sincere appreciation for what you're

[00:25:53] doing. Thank you so much. It's been an honor and I look forward to working with you guys again.

[00:26:01] Becky, we just got scared by Richard Mariano and scared us straight on the subject of vapes

[00:26:08] in our children in this country. Your thoughts?

[00:26:12] It's just kind of wild how much it has gained in popularity over the last few years. I feel like

[00:26:19] you walk down the street and you can just smell all of it. It's very apparent what it is,

[00:26:24] right? You can smell cotton candy and you know these what smell and I would assume taste

[00:26:30] horrific but smell is just so fake and so smelly and but we hear it and see it everywhere

[00:26:34] and so it is really concerning. Obviously my just son is hopefully very far removed from

[00:26:40] any substance of this sort but to see how available it is and how illegally available

[00:26:47] it is so we've got both the legal and illegal components of this, we've got the targeting to

[00:26:52] the kids. There's just so many concerns here. I do did ask at the end a little bit about

[00:26:57] the personable responsibility because obviously as a strong Republican I don't always love

[00:27:02] government involvement in these kind of things but when it is becoming such an

[00:27:06] epidemic amongst the youth and all of these potential health dangers for them that we don't

[00:27:12] even really know all of what can come from it because it is so new and not regulated as well

[00:27:17] as so many other things in our world. It's really troubling so I think it was really

[00:27:22] impressive that we always like to be able to talk to somebody that kind of forces me to

[00:27:27] dig into these topics a little bit more and so grateful that Richard and his team reached out

[00:27:32] and yeah it was a good conversation. I'm very appreciative of the opportunity to speak with him.

[00:27:37] Again though it just brings up another thing as parents we need to be concerned about

[00:27:42] but I'm so thankful that Richard is out there fighting this good fight and working to keep

[00:27:46] as best he can our kids safe, my kid safe, another kid safe from these types of dangerous

[00:27:52] products. It gets to another example which we've talked about in a different way about

[00:27:58] border security and it's something that is going to be a very significant topic this

[00:28:02] election cycle and we're mostly concerned this country the way it's going the lens is through

[00:28:08] is people coming over the border illegally into this country from other parts of the world.

[00:28:14] Here we have products that are getting to our children and it's just as important and in

[00:28:20] many ways can be more impactful unfortunately this influx of illegal vapes and products that

[00:28:27] are designed and manufactured in Vape Valley in China and there's always something that

[00:28:34] parents have to be concerned about. This is another thing but Richard did just a good job

[00:28:39] I think of explaining the concerns describing the limitations that the federal government has,

[00:28:44] FDA and states have in terms of enforcing this and once again I think it's the message of

[00:28:49] parents need to take a much more active role plus government needs to get together and start

[00:28:54] taking these problems seriously and there's so many of these types of things that happen.

[00:28:58] I'm so thankful that Richard again as you're particular Richard and his folks reached out

[00:29:02] and we were able to have him on we'll make sure to link to information that his group is

[00:29:06] putting out that they produced and he and some of his fellow students have done and we

[00:29:10] hope to have him back on other subjects but I do hope that this situation improves

[00:29:15] this podcast episode can be an example or a teaching tool for parents and others and

[00:29:20] policymakers to start taking this issue more seriously and addressing some of the concerns

[00:29:25] that Richard is talking about. Absolutely agree. Thank you Becky. Thank you. Becky we're going

[00:29:31] to spend some time today talking about endorsements and particularly endorsements of

[00:29:36] what some would argue and I think we would both argue questionable candidates

[00:29:40] for the legislature and that we've encountered this we talked about this past

[00:29:46] this year of our podcast about some of these candidates that are running and some are actually

[00:29:50] getting endorsed and unfortunately the latest example we have is a gentleman by the name of

[00:29:54] Judd Hoff who is running against representative Mary Franzen up in Alexandria. Judd Hoff was

[00:30:01] endorsed recently by the DFL party up in that part of state 12b which is mostly I think

[00:30:07] part of Douglas County up in Alexandria and Judd Hoff has a very disturbing record

[00:30:14] a very disturbing record and Becky you've reviewed the record I've looked at the record

[00:30:18] in your experience potentially one of the worst backgrounds of a candidate that you're aware of.

[00:30:26] Yes absolutely on the criminal side I think we do see this every once in a while

[00:30:30] usually in my experience of ones I can remember it's maybe like a tax lien a DWI

[00:30:37] or like disorderly conduct or drunk in public or not minimizing any of those things but it's

[00:30:44] on the scale when considering Judd Hoff on the minor side this is alarming alarming for anybody

[00:30:53] to interact with but let alone this now being an endorsed DFL candidate. Yes and we're going

[00:30:58] to get into more of the details but I just wanted to get a sense where you were because

[00:31:02] this was one of the worst if not the worst that I've seen and we've talked about a lot of bad

[00:31:07] examples before we've also talked about a lot of good things but without a doubt the totality of

[00:31:12] what was in this man's background both what he's done that's documented in the court file

[00:31:17] and other behavior is just really appalling and representative Franzen had posted I think

[00:31:23] on Saturday evening that Judd Hoff had been endorsed and she has put out a number of posts

[00:31:28] on social media about who Judd Hoff is and some of the things in his past and some interactions

[00:31:34] that she's had with him we should set the table a little bit that what are the qualifications

[00:31:39] to run for office generally you have to be let me just pause for a second I'm going

[00:31:42] to look that up very quickly because realize I don't know. I think it's like a filing fee

[00:31:48] and legislatively I think you're you have to live in the district congressionally you don't.

[00:31:54] Let's distinguish between legal qualifications someone who's legally can run and whether people

[00:32:01] have in their background the type of qualities and leadership examples and life experiences

[00:32:07] that we would make them think are good that would have the potential to be good legislators.

[00:32:12] I think in this instance we're talking about not legal qualifications because to run for the

[00:32:18] legislature in Minnesota you have to members of the House of Representatives and the Senate

[00:32:23] must be qualified voters of the state be 21 years of age and have must resided one year in the

[00:32:28] state. In addition state legislators must have lived six months independently preceding the

[00:32:34] election in the district of which they are elected so what that means is you have to

[00:32:39] live in the district that you're going to run six months prior to the election you have

[00:32:42] to be 21 years of age you have must have lived in the state for at least one year prior.

[00:32:48] Those are the requirements to run those are so Judd by all accounts meets the legal

[00:32:54] qualifications to run and other candidates that we've discussed we talked about Rich Steger who

[00:32:58] was attempting to run against representative John Kovnick he met the legal qualification to run.

[00:33:04] We're not talking about that today we're talking about an individual so we go through

[00:33:07] some of this discussion on him has a very disturbing background in in light in particularly

[00:33:12] what he's done to representative Mary Franzen directly. Let's get into that a bit.

[00:33:16] Representative Mary Franzen lives in Alexandria she has been a very active member of the

[00:33:23] legislature. She is what I would consider to be an absolutely solid Republican she is a real

[00:33:30] firebrand Republican she is willing to throw she's just she's just a very

[00:33:36] quotable member of the legislature she is someone who can tackle both policy and politics

[00:33:43] she is an absolute flamethrower when it comes to things sometimes and I think that she is there's

[00:33:50] no question that I think that her style of politics in terms of how passionate she is

[00:33:56] on behalf of Republicans messaging on behalf of Republicans and her desire and willingness

[00:34:02] to want to see Republicans win in every corner of the state has made her a target

[00:34:07] independent of one of the demographics of her district and the political nature of the

[00:34:11] district. This is a very strong Republican seat and so by no means do I think that Judd

[00:34:17] Hoff is going to be successful in defeating representative Mary Franzen but the behavior

[00:34:23] that I've learned in the last few days about what this man has done directly and specifically

[00:34:29] to Mary Franzen as a person is just appalling and so representative Franzen went out and

[00:34:36] noted that this man this Judd Hoff had been endorsed recently and she shares some articles

[00:34:40] on social media about some things in his past some criminal things in his past.

[00:34:45] Most disturbing is that Judd Hoff has multiple criminal convictions and has had multiple

[00:34:52] incidents in his past where he has brandished a machete he has been charged and was convicted

[00:34:58] of a second degree assault related to a brandishing a machete in 2020 I think he

[00:35:05] was convicted in 2021. He has some damage to property convictions he has a disorderly conduct

[00:35:12] a criminal disorderly conduct defense so he had and he has a criminal damage to property

[00:35:17] contempt of court going back all the way to 1991. Judd Hoff has by every available measure

[00:35:24] an extensive criminal background and some of the incidents involving his criminal behavior involve

[00:35:30] felony level assault with items like machetes in fact there's a couple examples in his criminal

[00:35:36] past involving incidents with machetes. If you're not familiar with what a machete is

[00:35:42] a machete is the tool of trade of Jason from Friday the 13th okay so it's not a light

[00:35:48] knife it's not it's a weapon that is it brandished is meant to intimidate and to have

[00:35:56] some bit of it has I don't know and again I'm not trying to diminish the significance of it but

[00:36:02] brandishing a machete or bringing out a machete to a fight or in type of any environment is not

[00:36:08] a de-escalation. Not going to say that someone isn't in a situation where they may need a

[00:36:13] machete I'm a conceal and carry permit holder I don't want to deny anyone the opportunity by

[00:36:18] which to defend themselves using a machete if they need to or firearm legally okay but this

[00:36:23] is an individual who has his method of choice or his weapon of choice in a couple instances

[00:36:30] seems to be a machete this is who the DFL endorsed and so it appears that this

[00:36:36] his criminal conduct was known by the delegates up in that area correct?

[00:36:42] Yeah very often before I have gone through the process a lot with on the Republican side

[00:36:47] being part of a party officer working for the state party I assume the DFL side is

[00:36:53] relatively similar where you the delegates who have made themselves known that are going to the

[00:36:57] endorsement typically go through a nominating committee who ask them questions do an interview

[00:37:04] oftentimes are I know on the Republican side or is there anything in your past that

[00:37:08] would be concerning or troubling or look bad for the local party or for the state party

[00:37:14] do you have a criminal record typically is on there and very often there are independent

[00:37:18] searches of public records to see what is out there so it in this case after this endorsement

[00:37:26] was made public and some of these issues were made public largely to you thanks to your Twitter

[00:37:30] feed it did appear that one of the local DFL party officers or somebody involved had contacted

[00:37:37] that I believe it was the Alexandria Echo Press who wrote an article and they said that this

[00:37:42] was known by the delegates this was known by the nominating committee and they proceeded

[00:37:47] anyway which is troubling which is very troubling now again let's separate because we break things

[00:37:53] down on this podcast there are legal qualifications to run by all accounts Judd has the legal Judd

[00:37:58] has met the legal requirements to run for the legislature okay he's met the legal requirements

[00:38:04] but there's also a side that should stay as does he have the type of life experiences

[00:38:10] that would he would bring that would make his life experience as one

[00:38:14] that he would that is that service in the legislature would be something that he would

[00:38:19] succeed at what are his life experiences such that serving in the legislature would be a net

[00:38:24] benefit to the area and I have to tell you that their criminal records first and foremost

[00:38:31] a number of people have had criminal records and have been elected to higher office George

[00:38:36] W. Bush had a DWI Dick Cheney hit too I have a DWI in my past I'm not seeking elective office

[00:38:42] at this time I may at some point but I'm not seeking at this point elective office but

[00:38:47] those type of life stories are a part of people's those are life stories that every

[00:38:51] that a lot of people have and again these aren't legally disqualifying things but this

[00:38:56] is about the judgment it's about the judgment of the activists and the delegates when they're

[00:39:01] making the selection on who to endorse I would say to you without any hesitation that what

[00:39:07] appears in Judd's background criminally just in the criminal file alone and I want to take this

[00:39:12] somewhat strategically what appears in the criminal file is disqualifying in and of itself

[00:39:17] now I'm not saying it legally does disqualifying him from running every election cycle

[00:39:23] independent of the party endorsement processes there are people who file for office those are

[00:39:27] candidates there's people that do it on a very regular basis that bypass the party process and

[00:39:32] choose to run in Minnesota particularly for the major party candidates Judd could have filed

[00:39:38] as a Democrat and just chosen to run and bypass the endorsement process he went through the

[00:39:42] endorsement process and I would say yes he meets the legal qualifications to run but based

[00:39:49] on what's in his criminal past I would not have voted to endorse him just based on what's

[00:39:54] in his criminal past alone and I completely agree and I think one of the things that

[00:40:00] is most concerning is because I think there's two things that that are troubling when you look at

[00:40:05] this from the endorsement side of things is again that nominating committee very often then

[00:40:10] there's a nominee nominated nominations chair who at the committee convention will come forward

[00:40:16] and say these are the people we spoke with Judd Hoff recommended they'll give either a

[00:40:21] recommended or qualified or not recommended not qualified or qualified with concerns or

[00:40:27] different things so there are ways for them to give the full picture to the delegation

[00:40:33] and let them make their decision I don't know that happened here I don't know what level it

[00:40:39] was shared but the thing that as you mentioned there are a lot of people who are able to

[00:40:44] learn from mistakes and go on and we've talked to a number of them and had out those

[00:40:48] conversations it doesn't appear that this is one of those situations it doesn't I haven't seen

[00:40:53] anything from Judd saying I have made mistakes I have learned from them I believe that I'm a good

[00:40:59] steward and and would be a good servant for the people of Douglas County and 12b because

[00:41:04] x y and z I there's nothing that we've seen as somebody he seems to be very active on social

[00:41:08] media it doesn't appear that there's anything of that out there that he's taken any

[00:41:12] accountability and acknowledged his wrongdoings and wants to change the path forward

[00:41:18] that's one that's the issue I see here correct and as you noted we have spoken to a number of

[00:41:23] people on this podcast and I've said to you before Becky if there's one subject that I could

[00:41:28] do a podcast entirely on it's about people who have had challenges made mistakes in their life

[00:41:33] who have redeemed themselves and are now looking to do just good things and I don't

[00:41:38] even want to name some of the people that we've interviewed but where we've discussed asked

[00:41:42] because I don't want to connect there the good work that they're doing in any way to Judd

[00:41:46] but I will see you as that is a subject that is something that is we've talked about before

[00:41:51] and I believe very strongly as someone who's here today because the good graces of others

[00:41:56] and second third and fourth chances I believe in second and third fourth chances trust me I

[00:42:00] have needed them in my life but what I do see in his past is an what I what I'm failing to

[00:42:07] see right now is an acknowledgement of his past as you articulated is that he has not

[00:42:12] by any account I haven't seen an example that he's articulate that he's learned from

[00:42:16] these past mistakes that these violent incidents some of them involving a machete

[00:42:22] are still not who he is today that's what's so concerning to me and it's just very poor

[00:42:29] decisions on the part of any local party and again in this particular instance we're talking

[00:42:34] about the DFL party but the Republicans they cannot throw stones in this matter with any

[00:42:40] moral authority simply because they also have had issues with candidates that have sought

[00:42:47] elected office have tried to get endorsed by our party office and this is a problem in both

[00:42:52] parties but Judd has risen to the front right now a combination because of his criminal record

[00:42:58] which is extensive which is available on my Twitter feed which I will link to

[00:43:02] in the description of this hot house episode when we release it it is extensive and again I

[00:43:08] want to separate I'm going to be very careful on how I say this he has met the legal qualifications

[00:43:13] but I think we are both of the opinion that based on just his criminal record alone coupled

[00:43:18] with his fact of lack of contrition lack of acknowledgement of it or his explaining and

[00:43:25] conveying any explanation apology or any type of atonement for what he did that he understands

[00:43:31] that he did was wrong that would make him unendurable in my opinion just based on his

[00:43:36] criminal record correct correct and one thing I want to just paint the picture a little bit of

[00:43:41] this machete it's a 23 inch machete that's almost two feet long this is a very serious weapon

[00:43:49] that he was doing and I just needed to share that because I it's just astounding to me of

[00:43:54] the depths of that and again I'm not trying to make light of it but when I say Jason from

[00:43:58] Friday the 13th that's his weapon of choice in a lot of those movies is a machete and to

[00:44:04] think that someone was using it as Judd attempted to do in downtown Alexandria

[00:44:11] is just astounding that people looked at that file and again as we've made clear the issue here

[00:44:18] is the lack of contrition coupled with the record I don't even know to be very honest with

[00:44:23] you if he had done a full narrative apology that I would have voted to endorse him I

[00:44:29] think that the record there is so so detailed and extensive going back from we have a we have

[00:44:37] convictions starting in 19 that we have contempt of court charges in 91 all the way up to convictions

[00:44:43] in 2000 and 2021 so a span of 30 years where this man has had where he's been in trouble

[00:44:52] with the law and so pretty difficult I think to frame up appropriately and explain just for

[00:45:00] the case of an endorsing convention your criminal record for 30 years and expect that

[00:45:04] to be enough to get you endorsed that's where I think the problem is now we're going to deal

[00:45:09] with the most serious and disturbing aspect of Judd Hoff's behavior which is Judd Hoff has had

[00:45:19] multiple incidents involving I think fair to say violating the space of representative Mary

[00:45:27] Franzen and again Mary Franzen is a duly elected member of the legislature it's immaterial to me

[00:45:35] in any way who Mary Franzen is what she does and how she approaches her job the only reason

[00:45:43] I wanted to explain a little bit of her background and that I think she's in a safe

[00:45:48] Republican district she is a strong messenger on behalf of Republican issues and she is very quick

[00:45:56] to message both on politics and policy where she feels Republicans are doing well and where

[00:46:01] Democrats are coming up a bit short that's absolutely her and so I don't I'm explaining

[00:46:09] just so our listeners understand but Mary Franzen has done nothing zero zilch to deserve this it

[00:46:15] doesn't matter if she was the most partisan member of the legislature or she's a rhino

[00:46:20] Republican or she's a far-right Republican no member of the legislature and in this

[00:46:25] particular instance we're talking about it through the lens of partisanship of

[00:46:28] a Democratic candidate targeting a Republican candidate but I'm also going to say to you

[00:46:33] no legislator male female either party deserves an opponent who is engaged in this type of behavior

[00:46:39] I don't want to hear from anyone about what Mary Franzen's done I don't want to hear about people

[00:46:44] talking about what they think Donald Trump this is not a both sidesism discussion the only

[00:46:50] aspect of the both sides isn't that I'm only slightly willing to entertain is that both

[00:46:55] political parties have had problems with candidates there being a lack of vetting

[00:47:01] related to candidates that's the only situation that I think is applicable here but Mary Franzen

[00:47:08] has done absolutely nothing politically or in any aspect of her life to have to deal with what

[00:47:14] she's been dealing with Judd Hoff and she does not deserve him as a legislative candidate

[00:47:19] she does not deserve anything that she's endured and I will also say that if there

[00:47:23] is a Republican who was endorsed and did this type of stuff I'd be saying the same

[00:47:28] thing about the Democrat because this is not a partisan issue this is about right versus wrong

[00:47:34] completely and it would even be a conversation to be had if it wasn't from the DFL candidate

[00:47:39] against Franzen it would be inappropriate if it was Joe Smith who's just a constituent a random

[00:47:45] person who has done these things against Franzen it is she like you mentioned she has been

[00:47:50] elected she she has served for 14 years now she has done great things whether you agree

[00:47:55] with her policy or not she got elected by 40 to get 70 percent of the vote she clearly

[00:48:01] the voters in her district are clearly supportive of what she is doing to represent them and this

[00:48:07] is just absolutely unacceptable yes and again we're I'm trying to explain a little bit

[00:48:13] because most of our listeners don't know everyone that serves in the legislature like

[00:48:17] we do so I wanted to give some general kind of biographical information but to be honest

[00:48:21] with you I was even a bit shy about discussing it because I don't want to I'm not trying to

[00:48:26] justify it in any way and explaining who Mary Franzen is and the type of legislator she is

[00:48:33] might make people think maybe she deserves this maybe she's done something to deserve this

[00:48:37] during a damn thing that Mary Franzen has ever done in her life to warrant this type

[00:48:41] of behavior and the statement begins and ends there this is wrong she doesn't deserve this

[00:48:48] no candidate deserves this no legislator and either part of the aisle deserves this type

[00:48:53] of behavior which we're going to describe which is that it's very clear based on videos that

[00:48:58] Judd Hoff has posted himself that this is a man who has gotten dangerously close in multiple

[00:49:03] situations to representative Franzen when I saw this video this video I saw this video online

[00:49:10] and I learned more about Judd Hoff I told someone that this is without a doubt one of

[00:49:14] the craziest if not the most disturbing videos I've ever seen involving a legislative candidate

[00:49:20] involved in the realm of politics this is just terrifying what Judd Hoff posted and we'll put

[00:49:26] this link in the video is that at some point he went through Mary Franzen's trash now let's

[00:49:33] describe again the geography Mary Franzen lives in Alexandria she's lived in Alexandria since

[00:49:39] she's been in the legislature guess who decided to move into Mary Franzen's neighborhood

[00:49:43] right across the street Judd Hoff did so Judd Hoff had previously protested near and around

[00:49:51] representative Franzen's house he knew where she lived at some point in the recent in some

[00:49:57] point in the last few years Judd Hoff decided to get a house and he'd picked the house right

[00:50:03] across the street from Mary Franzen so you have a guy who has harassed Mary Franzen in the past

[00:50:09] who has targeted Mary Franzen in the past decides to then move across the street from

[00:50:15] representative Franzen and right across the street she looks out her driveway

[00:50:20] she's staring at his property she stares at his property this is the man and so what Judd

[00:50:26] Hoff has done to take advantage of that proximity is he's apparently dug through her

[00:50:31] trash we know that he's dug through his trash because he's posted about it on social media

[00:50:36] he has gone through representative Franzen's trash he has taken items out of the trash

[00:50:41] he has then saved them and he's then done videos about the material that he's posted

[00:50:47] the material that he's collected from her trash in fact he posted a video he posted a video

[00:50:54] that he posted on November 15th 2023 Judd Hoff is calling a fellow state representative

[00:51:01] of representative Franzen and the whole purpose of the phone call to the office is what Judd

[00:51:08] Hoff found what he claims was an unopened card in representative Franzen's trash he called this

[00:51:16] legislator to let them know that he had opened the mail and he was calling them to let them

[00:51:22] know that representative Franzen had he had gotten this card from her trash he then opened

[00:51:28] the mail and he was calling on the two-year anniversary of it so let's just slow down for

[00:51:34] a second understand what he did here it appears based on the video that two years prior Judd

[00:51:40] Hoff had gone and somehow gotten access to Mary Franzen's trash either it was a trash can

[00:51:48] at the end of a driveway or some other place he'd gotten access to her trash he found a

[00:51:53] card that a fellow legislator had sent to representative Franzen he claimed the card

[00:51:57] was unopened Judd opened the card and then kept it either he kept it for two years or he opened

[00:52:04] it after two years but the whole point of this call two years later was to call this legislator

[00:52:10] and to say that it was the anniversary of when he had gotten this card and he was calling

[00:52:14] to let this legislator know that Franzen had not opened the card and guess where this card

[00:52:18] was now he says on the card that it was now on his fridge where's the fridge it's across

[00:52:25] the street from Mary Franzen's house let's just sit and talk about that for a second

[00:52:30] he went and he kept the card that he found in the trash like some trophy like some souvenir

[00:52:35] there's other examples of where he has gone through the trash and he has found

[00:52:39] he's posted Mary Franzen's cell phone number online very gleefully this is

[00:52:46] a massively disturbing situation a massively disturbing situation and as I said this is

[00:52:53] incredibly concerning I have never seen this level of dedication to targeting an individual

[00:53:01] in my entire life and again this has everything to do with Mary Franzen but also nothing to

[00:53:07] do with her because she is the target of this everyone who's listening to this does need to be

[00:53:13] concerned about the safety and welfare of representative Mary Franzen but it also has

[00:53:18] nothing to do with her and that she did absolutely nothing to deserve this and I have I am just

[00:53:23] appalled it was disturbing to watch it was disturbing to see the gleefulness that this

[00:53:29] man had the dedication he had to the bit that he went and he went through someone's trash now

[00:53:35] you are the resident legal advisor to the podcast I do believe that it is legal depending

[00:53:42] on where the trash is to go through it in the state of Minnesota have you ever dumpster dived

[00:53:47] I have not although I will say there are some interesting tick tocks out of there of the

[00:53:52] actual dumpster diving that behind stores and stuff and the things people get and sell like

[00:53:57] what stores throw out and they yeah it's a whole wild thing but in this situation sounds

[00:54:02] like I that the garbage was at the curb and he went through it which from my understanding

[00:54:07] is technically again legal but is it ethical moral no you're not going to ask me if I ever

[00:54:14] dumpster dived have you ever dumpster dive now I worked a lot in opposition research over the

[00:54:19] years when people think of the word opposition research they think of the raw political stuff

[00:54:23] I haven't done that in the longest time but there's other type of research that I do so

[00:54:27] when people think of the opposition researcher that's years and years ago but even then when

[00:54:32] I was doing that type of opposition research you don't have never done before dug through

[00:54:37] trash of anyone else the last time I dug through trash the last time I dug through trash where

[00:54:43] there was a belief that my daughter threw a retainer in it and we were out there she'd lost

[00:54:47] it in the snow and there was a possibility that it maybe ended up in the trash the last

[00:54:51] place you're going to find me ever digging is in someone's trash absent me looking for

[00:54:55] a retainer that my kid may have thrown away mistakenly which was actually lying in the

[00:54:59] snow which was pretty difficult to find dumpster diving going through trash at the end of the

[00:55:04] driveway by my understanding is legally permissible that being said as someone who's

[00:55:10] worked extensively in opposition research which is generally I think the first place that people

[00:55:16] think this type of dumpster diving happens I have never dumpster dive I've never gone

[00:55:21] through someone's trash the only trash you're gonna ever gone through is my own it's not

[00:55:25] the part of the trade if that makes me years ago a bad opposition researcher because I didn't

[00:55:31] go through people's trash I have to have standards I've never gone through someone's trash other than

[00:55:35] my own are you surprised that I've never dumpster dived I didn't ever I hadn't really

[00:55:42] thought about it until this moment but when you talk about the opposition research that

[00:55:46] you've done in the past maybe it would have fallen under that but no yeah bravo congratulations

[00:55:53] no dumpster diving duo here correct but let's just say for a second that again just like the

[00:55:58] qualifications Judd meets the legal fall qualification but the criminal record coupled

[00:56:04] with the lack of the extent of the criminal record coupled with the lack of contradiction

[00:56:08] that I'm aware of they're absolutely he should not have been endorsed then you add in the

[00:56:12] videos that are publicly available online this isn't any type of sleuthing that was done this

[00:56:17] is his identified YouTube account he is posting videos like this he is posting videos of him

[00:56:23] gleefully calling a fellow legislator and boasting about the fact that he had dug through

[00:56:28] representative Franzen's garbage and then he had found this card and he had memorialized it

[00:56:34] and remembered it and his dedication to it was to keep that for two years and it's now on

[00:56:39] the fridge inside his house do you have any idea how scary that is how disturbing that is

[00:56:44] and how threatening that is huge violation in so many ways and again this isn't something that

[00:56:50] was done he's posting about these what you said November 2023 this is that's what six seven months

[00:56:56] ago this is something that is not maybe the digging through happened two years ago but he's

[00:57:00] obviously very proud of it has this medal on his chest that he's bragging about and it's

[00:57:07] just very clear it's still a part of who he is and what he stands for and it's really

[00:57:14] unfortunate that he was endorsed by that DFL man yes and I want to read you just a little

[00:57:21] transcript of the video that I posted what he says on the phone when he calls this fellow

[00:57:25] legislator's office I just wanted you to know that she threw that beautiful greeting card in

[00:57:29] the garbage and didn't even open it two years ago and I'm calling you because it's the second

[00:57:33] anniversary when I found in the garbage so I and I wrote to recap according to Hoff he dug

[00:57:40] through Franzen's garbage and found an unopened card he kept the card for two years and then

[00:57:45] opened it he didn't put the card on his refrigerator home which is across the street

[00:57:49] from Franzen's home in Alexandria this is so disturbing this is so disturbing and I do not

[00:57:58] want this I want to have a very limited conversation about Mary Franzen in the sense

[00:58:05] of this she does not deserve this she is a human being I the only reason that I explained

[00:58:13] her partisan background and who she is to explain a little bit of the dynamics that are

[00:58:17] going on here for our listeners but it's absolutely irrelevant who Mary Franzen is it

[00:58:23] doesn't matter how she votes what type of person she is what party she identifies with

[00:58:29] she doesn't deserve this no legislator deserves this and to think that there is a possibility

[00:58:35] that if that this guy stays endorsed and that Judd Hoff is going to be that the Alexandria

[00:58:41] Chamber of Commerce or some chamber of commerce is going to have a debate where

[00:58:44] representative Franzen is going to be forced to be on stage with the individual who has

[00:58:49] acted in this type of way is simply appalling and again it's important to describe the

[00:58:56] background of what's going on here but who Mary Franzen is doesn't matter she's a human

[00:59:03] being and she doesn't deserve this no one deserves this no one deserves this level of

[00:59:07] treatment so I think that you really helped uncover or bring forward a lot of this

[00:59:14] After these troubling items I didn't want to mention that the DFL chair Ken Martin did put

[00:59:19] out a statement after this there were some multiple calls for that to happen he said the kind of

[00:59:24] violent and threatening behaviors that Mr. Hoff has engaged in have no place in the Minnesota

[00:59:29] DFL party we strongly disavow this endorsement and I've asked the local party unit in question

[00:59:33] to withdraw their endorsement immediately he goes on to say that they're not going to

[00:59:37] spend money or resources supporting this and condone that kind of behavior that is something

[00:59:42] that I am was glad to see it happened relatively quickly we've talked a lot about how these kind

[00:59:47] of things shouldn't come from partisan lens we should all strive to stand up and stand against

[00:59:53] any sort of violence or attacks against electeds or candidates and when somebody like this these

[01:00:00] elected officials are supposed to be held to a higher standard we want them to be people

[01:00:04] that are the best people to be representing their districts and have people look up to

[01:00:08] and look to to do things and so I do apply Ken Martin's quick move to call for that

[01:00:14] it was a very good statement and I think we should separate a couple things here

[01:00:18] Martin did a great job with that statement and political parties this is obviously a

[01:00:22] political discussion in the sense that this is a political podcast and we're discussing

[01:00:27] so we're obviously going to discuss the political elements of this I think Ken Martin's

[01:00:31] statement was perfect both political parties are they are major political parties in the

[01:00:37] state but they have local parties all across the state they are run all across the state

[01:00:42] there are 120 some party units I think in both political parties in some ways I have and those

[01:00:48] are locally run parties and so it's not as if Ken Martin and the DFL sat down and said I want

[01:00:54] Judd Hoff to run for this district it was a local decision made by local activists in 12b up

[01:01:01] in that area but for the fact that Ken Martin went out and made that statement that's

[01:01:05] not a small thing for him to do because he's calling out his own party and that's what a

[01:01:10] responsible party does in this situation so my hats off to Ken Martin for giving the exact type

[01:01:17] of statement that needed to be made he didn't engage in bulls-eye-ism he left it specific

[01:01:23] to this situation and the leadership and staff of the state party should at the DFL state party

[01:01:28] should be complimented for what they did I also will say that the chairman of the

[01:01:33] Republican Party issued a statement on this and his statement was not wrong calling this out

[01:01:39] and so there is on both sides there has been concern that has been raised and I think the

[01:01:44] messaging on the large part on both sides of the aisle on this has been very responsible

[01:01:49] let me also just raise one other point you know who hasn't spoken out that I'm aware of

[01:01:54] is anyone from the House DFL again if Judd Hoff is elected which is incredibly unlikely

[01:02:00] he will serve in the Minnesota House of Representatives and I assume he will caucus

[01:02:03] with the DFL I have not heard any definitive statement by anyone from the DFL House caucus

[01:02:10] disavowing this man and saying that he is not qualified to serve in that legislative body and

[01:02:17] he would not be welcomed in that legislative body again this is a part of the state that

[01:02:24] is difficult for Democrats to win there are parts of the state that are Republicans

[01:02:28] difficult for Republicans to win and in a lot of those situations I know having worked at the

[01:02:32] party what you look for is like names on the ballot you want to make sure that there is

[01:02:37] someone running carrying the banner that's the kind of balance that you need to do but

[01:02:41] you just can't throw anybody up and I think in this particular instance I think the chairman

[01:02:47] of the DFL has responsibly messaged on this I think the chairman of the GOP party

[01:02:51] has responsibly messaged on this I think everyone has responsibly messaged on what needs

[01:02:56] to be done and what's missing I think is some a more vocal voice at the local level

[01:03:03] and the other thing that I think is missing is someone from the House DFL just saying

[01:03:06] we're not going to engage in this type of stuff absolutely there's only so much the House

[01:03:11] can't rescind that endorsement that has to come from the local party themselves but they

[01:03:16] could very similar to Chair Martin say we're not spending time and energy on this we or

[01:03:21] they're not going to be on any sample ballots anything of that sort and really it's

[01:03:25] surprising to me the House hasn't come out and done this because there is plenty of time

[01:03:28] before piling deadline right like they could still get somebody else yes it would be

[01:03:32] somebody else that if they don't rescind the endorsement would be up against a DFL candidate

[01:03:38] but there's time for that I hope that they come out I hope this happens but it's beyond

[01:03:45] troubling he is a should not be a candidate for anything and it's very concerning and very

[01:03:52] troubling and the only good that we have about this is that Mary Franzen is likely to still win

[01:03:59] in a landslide do you want to read the quote I think from the chair of the Minneapolis DFL

[01:04:04] yes this was one I actually I so another local party chair Minneapolis DFL Brianna Rose Leet

[01:04:10] posted I want all women in politics to feel safe in their own homes harassing anybody

[01:04:15] by going through their trash to call people they know is unhinged moving next door is next

[01:04:19] level this isn't about political ideology all women should feel safe to be active politically

[01:04:24] bravo this is a great way again not something that she needed to step into but something that

[01:04:29] she felt compelled and strongly about speaking out against and I think it's just a really great

[01:04:34] way again to condemn the situation that's going on and yeah I thought it was great

[01:04:40] I thought it was a really good statement and it's one of the things that we try to do on

[01:04:44] this podcast is even when we're being critical is also focused on the good I think there was

[01:04:48] a lot of good that came out this week in response to what's being done here and the

[01:04:52] behavior of this individual towards representative Franzen I think there are strong voices in the

[01:04:58] Republican Party that raise concerns and in the Democratic Party that raise concerns

[01:05:02] the long-term problem that we have here is what's going to happen to Judd-Hoff's candidacy

[01:05:08] Chairman Martin I think very similar to Chairman Hann can't just undo an endorsement the debt

[01:05:14] the local Democrats are going to have to unring the spell because I think there it appears based

[01:05:19] on published reports there was a level of some transparency I don't know what the level of

[01:05:25] transparency was on his legal record but it appears that there was some deficiency in the

[01:05:30] sharing of some of his online activity in terms of some of the behavior that he has

[01:05:35] done directly towards representative Franzen and it is incredibly disturbing and Becky

[01:05:44] again I think about I think about one of the subjects that we've talked about is

[01:05:49] getting more women to run for office and that's what I was I think that Brianna

[01:05:54] Rose Lee's statement the chair of the DFL just again a perfect message

[01:05:59] as she and that's the type of thoughtfulness that's what's I think so frustrating in this

[01:06:04] situation is we're discussing such an ugly grotesque situation that was made by a local

[01:06:10] party unit up in up in Douglas County we obviously want to draw some attention to that

[01:06:15] and speak out against it but in also it did bring out a lot of good from some people

[01:06:19] and I think we've highlighted a couple of multiple examples of some people that were very

[01:06:24] quick who didn't need to speak up about it but did that did a really good job of disavowing

[01:06:30] themselves and dissing themselves because of this behavior but this problem hasn't been

[01:06:35] resolved because as of right now I believe he is still the endorsed candidate at the

[01:06:39] we're taping this on a Wednesday he's still the endorsed candidate I haven't seen any updates

[01:06:44] and it's going to take some time to undo this I think from a party apparatus standpoint

[01:06:48] they're going to have to unendorse him that's going to take some process if they go forward

[01:06:54] with that I think that there is a likelihood that he runs in some way this election cycle

[01:07:02] against representative franson either with the DFL endorsement or without the DFL endorsement

[01:07:07] I think it's unlikely that this guy is just going to go home just going to take his ball

[01:07:11] and go home but if he does take his ball and go home guess where he lives right across the

[01:07:15] goddamn street from Mary Franzen. You're right we got to see how and if this can get on wrong

[01:07:22] in my experience that would be something pretty difficult and timely with different

[01:07:26] requirements to convene delegates to make those decisions and filing is a couple months

[01:07:32] away so we will watch we will give updates and not okay man not okay but thank you I want to I do

[01:07:39] want to I think you should be commended for getting all of this information out there there

[01:07:42] was a lot of different things I'm sure people were sharing with you and your finding and your

[01:07:46] research and I think it's a really important thing to do and obviously was not done by a

[01:07:52] lot of other people involved in this and I think you thank you for doing that and making

[01:07:56] sure that we stand out against this. I appreciate Becky and just want to say a couple things

[01:08:00] in closing then we could close this section out mistakes happen. We have discussed other situations

[01:08:06] in both political parties where candidates can get endorsed and clearly there's examples in both

[01:08:11] the Republican Party and the DFL party now of proper vetting not being done. This is a very

[01:08:16] extreme example that sets it to the stratosphere that makes it a very much more of a serious

[01:08:22] problem but these type of circumstances could have happened in either political party in this

[01:08:26] situation it just happened in the DFL party. Let me also just say in closing one last time

[01:08:30] I don't care who Mary Franzen is, I don't care about her politics how she votes what party she

[01:08:36] represents, I don't care what issue she exposes no legislator male or female in any political

[01:08:44] party Democrat Republican or in any party at the local state at any level deserves this

[01:08:50] level of treatment. It is horrific, it is appalling, it is scary and if you can't find

[01:08:56] a way to speak up about this God help you because this is the easiest situation to speak

[01:09:03] out about and if you can't speak out because you don't like representative Franzen's vote

[01:09:07] I don't give a frog's fat ass. There's never been an easier situation for someone to take

[01:09:12] a skull out and say this is wrong this is wrong and if you haven't spoken out yet about

[01:09:17] this and you have a role you should be doing it because nobody deserves this.

[01:09:22] I concur let's leave it at that. All right thank you Becky. Thank you.

[01:09:30] We want to thank you for listening to the breakdown with Broadcorps with Becky and before

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[01:09:50] Becky will return next week. Thank you again for listening.