A Break Down of President Trump's Endorsement of Mike Lindell

[00:00:01] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy, and current affairs. I'm Michael Brodkorb. Becky shares off this week and she'll be back next week. We have a really interesting episode coming up. Big political news this week in Minnesota. Huge news. President Donald Trump endorsed Mike Lindell for governor. And it has completely upended the race for governor on the Republican side. Tons of national attention. And to help break this down, we have really two special guests.

[00:00:40] First of all, Will Davis, who's been one of our favorite resident Democrats to be on, is going to come on and offer some perspective from his side of the aisle. Becky and I spoke with Will a few weeks back in the lead up to the Republican and DFL state conventions. And we discussed the possibility of there being a Lindell endorsement. And so it's going to be great to have Will's perspective. Joining us today as a first time guest is Billy Grant, who well known in political circles here in Minnesota and in Ohio. And Billy's going to come on and offer a perspective.

[00:01:11] Will a kind of MAGA Republican lane, understanding how this works and really explain, I think to our listeners why he is someone who thought this was absolutely going to be a possibility that the president was going to endorse Mike Lindell. What it means for the race, what it means for the party going forward. And so it's a real treat to have such knowledgeable voices from different sides of the aisle offering their perspective on such a significant political event. So I thank you for joining us today. And I really hope you enjoy the show.

[00:01:41] It's great to be here today. As I noted in the intro, Becky is not here today. She is a traveling with family and so wish her the best. She'll be back next week. Just a programming note. Jay Reeves, who is a candidate for state auditor was scheduled to join us this week. We've moved that interview to next week because of the events of this week, which is the entire focus of this episode. And I want to say at the onset, this is a real treat for me. This is why I love to do podcasting

[00:02:08] because Will Davis has been a guest this podcast going back. He is a very informed and highly respected Democrat, strategist, operative and general know-it-all on politics. And I'm extra induced today to have Billy Grant on Billy Grant. I've known for years, both in Minnesota. And he does a lot of work in Ohio. Billy is someone who I think. And I offer, I think with will a very balanced kind of conversation today.

[00:02:35] about the political significance of what happened in Minnesota. And I want to just say at the onset, I thank you both for doing this late in the afternoon on Friday, but the events warranted it. And so, Will, I want to, want to start with you and piggyback off.

[00:02:50] A conversation we had a couple of weeks ago, week of the DFL and M and GOP conventions. There was some discussion about the possibility of Lindell getting endorsed by the president and Donald Trump. And there was some spin going on and to preview this or to get ahead of it. Billy was one of the people that I spoke to and kind of like, Hey, this is what I'm hearing. How would this play out? And so some of my conversations with Billy is what led to, I think a balanced conversation that we have.

[00:03:17] But we'll go back to that conversation. Mike Lindell gets endorsed by Trump this week. Were you surprised? Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Michael. I'm sad Becky's not here and good to be on with Billy who I've known since 2018. Yeah, we've had, we've gone rounds ourselves on campaigns. So it's, it's fun to be on here with you. No, I'm not, I'm not surprised at all. Trump is Trump and he's never been to anybody but Donald Trump. He, I, Billy said it earlier offline.

[00:03:46] He respects loyalty and he backs his people and he really doesn't give a damn about the on, on. Ground political ramifications of his endorsements. He supports his people no matter what. And very rarely does he factor in how much heartburn this is going to give Alex Plekish with the Minnesota GOP. He just doesn't care about that.

[00:04:08] He's going to endorse his guys. And you know, Mike Lindell has been on board since the very beginning and Trump backs his guys. I bet for better or worse, that's who he is and what he does. So no, I wasn't surprised at all. I'm surprised at how delusional all these Republican operatives are on Twitter. I put a, I tweeted out a few screen caps. It's like that they're completely blown away and surprised by this. It's like everyone, anyone who's paying attention saw this coming Trump either.

[00:04:34] I mean, there's a lot of conspiracy that Trump did this to screw with Minnesota Republicans. I don't think he's that 3D chess. I think he just did it because yeah. I mean, Lindell is his guy and that's what he did. So anyone who's betting against that just, you know, should probably lose a lot of money in Vegas, I would think.

[00:04:50] Billy, without disclosing and getting too much into our off air conversations, which I talked to a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, you were one of the people that was like, this is absolutely very likely going to happen. And so walk our listeners through why weren't you surprised that this happened? And how does an endorsement like this unfold based on your knowledge of, you know, that kind of the Trump wing kind of MAGA wing of the Republican Party?

[00:05:17] Yeah, a couple of things. Thanks for having me on. And we'll great to be with you. Appreciate the history filling everyone in. I think the president has a record of like Will said, endorsing people that he's close to endorsing people that have been to battle for him, which Mike Lindell certainly has.

[00:05:35] And when you look at this campaign, I don't think you can really look at the field of candidates and say that anyone else really was vying for the endorsement in a really prominent way. I mean, the president, it's no secret that he spends a lot of time in Mar-a-Lago. I'm not aware of anyone going down there in a serious way trying to court him or even running ads in that market, which is something people do sometimes when they're trying to get his eyes on something.

[00:06:03] So there were a lot of things that could have been done, missed opportunities, endorsements from people that are in his ear. There's all kinds of things you can do in a primary to put yourself in a good position, especially when you don't have a prior relationship with the president. Lisa Dameth and the other candidates who dropped out before this really don't have any prior history with the president. So you have to work to establish that relationship. He's the most powerful person in the world. He's got other priorities.

[00:06:32] So he doesn't know who you are out of the gate, right? So I didn't see the level of effort needed to build that relationship for many of the campaigns. And so then the default is going to be then the guy that has the best relationship going back, which is Mike Lindell. Does the president, are the endorsements that the president makes based on who he's close with and what is the path for a candidate?

[00:06:59] If it is that answer, what was the path for a candidate to get the endorsement that doesn't have a prior relationship with the president? Well, first of all, it's not always who he's close to, right? He looks at a lot of things. He looks at poll numbers. He looks at fundraising. He looks at messaging. So he cares about if you're really in his lane or what your policies are. And you might look at some of those things and say, OK, well, Mike Lindell's fundraising isn't the best.

[00:07:26] And this and that and the poll numbers are better for others in the race, which are all fair points. But at the end of the day, there weren't that much better to where it made that much of a difference to him. I mean, you're talking about a couple hundred thousand dollars and maybe a million dollars in a super PAC. That's not astronomical numbers to anyone in Washington, D.C. For anyone who doesn't know, I mean, a million dollars is basically one broadcast flight in the Minneapolis TV market if you're a super PAC.

[00:07:55] So you're running one ad, basically. So you're not lighting the world on fire with that level of money. It sounds like a lot of money is a lot of money to people who aren't aware of political spending. But I mean, in Minneapolis, it's expensive TV market. So he's not, you know, his team ultimately may have told him, hey, the other person has more money and might have, you know, better polling numbers. But at the end of the day, it's his call. You know, he's like he made the decision he made and he's going to stand by it.

[00:08:25] So in both of your guys' mind, and I'll go back to you, Will, this came down to he's supporting a friend. Yeah, yeah, clearly. And, you know, I don't think and to Billy's point, I don't think either and I say either of them, meaning Lisa Damuth and Kendall Qualls. I don't think either of them wanted an endorsement from him either. I think they wanted him to not endorse because, I mean, in my opinion, it's it's an endorsement from Trump in a general election is not very beneficial to Republicans.

[00:08:55] Trump's never won here, despite his objections to that point. But he has never won here. He's not particularly popular here. And I think they didn't court it because they didn't want it either. I think you can't also can't ask Trump to stay out, really, because you got no no leg to stand on to do that to the president of the United States. He's going to do whatever the hell he wants. And so I think they didn't court it because they didn't want it and they had no power to keep him from doing it. I think, frankly, it's worst case scenario for both of those two candidates. I also agree.

[00:09:24] I also think it came down to poll numbers. I mean, I think there's certainly people who've done polls that have Mike quite probably in the lead by a solid chunk. And I'm sure with the president's endorsement, that will go to an even bigger lead. So I'm sure they looked at poll numbers. They don't they don't make these decisions without looking at data. And again, the fundraising difference wasn't. The fundraising difference matters less when the guy has 90 percent name ID and an endorsement from the president.

[00:09:54] And frankly, if some local reporting is to be believed, there's going to be plenty of Trump world money coming in that can swamp the leaders in fundraising on the Republican side pretty quickly. So, you know, if there was like you said, if there's a huge gap, that's one thing. But someone they could come in and swarm them immediately, like both of them combined for Mike Lindell if they so chose. Mike Lindell is not the Republican endorsed candidate.

[00:10:20] And we have the Republican endorsed candidates, Kendall Qualls and Lisa Dameth is running in the primary. Those are the top three on the Republican side that are running. And Billy, what does a Trump endorsement of Mike Lindell do for Mike Lindell in the primary? Traditionally, a Trump endorsement makes you nearly inevitable. Ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine percent. You know, it's very, very rare that anyone is going to beat that.

[00:10:49] And I think with Mike, it's he has enough time. To get the message out basically a month, right? You know, the. That's the key is you want to get the endorsement awareness to as high to 70 percent as you can. Once you get to 70 percent and above. You're not going to lose because that that threshold of voters, the the undecideds traditionally are heavily going to break for whoever the president endorses.

[00:11:15] So whatever undecided votes are left, the more of those people they can inform about the endorsement. Those people are largely going to go with the president. You think that the endorsement of the president is more significant than the endorsement of the party? A hundred percent. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I mean, if you if you ran a poll. I did try to I did try to get that question out with a straight face, but I don't know if I succeeded.

[00:11:41] Well, I mean, look, if you ran a poll right now in Minnesota, whether you are a mega America first Republican or a traditional Republican, I guarantee you 65 to 70 percent or above would say they're a mega Republican versus a traditional. Will, what does looking at this from the other side, you agree with his analysis, what it does for Lindell in the primary.

[00:12:05] And my follow up question will be how enthusiastic are Democrats with the with this endorsement? You know, as a DFL or I will say the state party's endorsement of a gov candidate does not always go super far. So especially in their case, I would say with a very weak and inept party traditionally and a lack of statewide success. So, I mean, I totally agree with that analysis that a Trump endorsement is going to go much further. I mean, I put something out the other day.

[00:12:34] I think just Minnesota is in this Goldilocks zone for Republicans where mega runs the party as far as, you know, their base and who they're going to support. But I think they're clearly capped out statewide in a general election at how successful they can be. So it's worst case scenario, in my opinion, for Republicans that you have to be mega and have Trump behind you to get through the primary. But what are you going to do in a general?

[00:13:01] You know, it has to be a good mix of a lot of different things to win. And I just I don't see Mike Lindell having the juice. I also wonder how professional his campaign is. I don't mean to take us off on a tangent here, but traditionally Mike Lindell has not run the most professional campaign with professional operatives running it. And I don't know if this time around is any different. Maybe it's a little more high profile. I know he's spending a lot of money on his own books to hand out and stuff. And maybe this changes things. Maybe they're going to with that endorsement comes a professionalization of the campaign.

[00:13:30] That's a good question, but that's an open question, certainly. But we shall see. And yes, I mean, DFLers are very excited. I mean, quite frankly, I don't think I don't here's what I don't understand. What makes Lisa Damuth more of a viable candidate than Mike Lindell or Kendall Qualls? I don't see it. I do not see it. I don't think she's run a very good campaign. I don't think she inspires anybody. I don't think her campaign operation itself is very professional and and well-oiled and same. Obviously, same with Kendall Qualls.

[00:14:00] I mean, he can't even get his camera phone clean when he's putting out video. I just for me, I don't think I mean, people are excited. Obviously, I think Mike Lindell probably hurts the rest of their ticket. But as far as the Govs race itself, I don't know that it's going to be that big of a difference in points. Maybe it will be three or four points for, you know, let's not forget who they're running against. They may think they're running against Tim Walls, but they're running against Senator Amy Klobuchar right now.

[00:14:26] And and we all know her electoral history and whether it's Mike Lindell, Kendall Qualls or Lisa Damuth, I don't know that it's going to make much of a difference. To be honest with you, Billy, your take. A couple of things. As soon as we get Steve Simon to hand over the voter rolls, well, we will have a much better discussion about our odds. We need the source code. That's what we need. That's the secret sauce, the source code.

[00:14:57] We're we've been very patient. No, seriously, I think midterms are about exciting people. Midterms are about turning people out, especially when, you know, you're the party in power. So you have to have someone who can rally the flag a little bit. And I'm I'm not saying other people aren't capable of that. But when you look at the people running right now, I'm not saying Mike is the best one to do it.

[00:15:22] But I think right now it's hard to argue anyone else is is better from a standpoint of name ID and messaging. I don't think anyone else really has a message. I don't think I know why anyone else is running. I don't know what their solutions are. I don't know. Amy Klobuchar put out a fraud plan. She's put out a lot of policy. She's had a lot of big people in the industry come out and support her, which is impressive. And you can say, well, she's an incumbent senator. That's fine. You guys have been in the race for a year.

[00:15:50] You've had a lot of time to develop these things. And I'm in Ohio. For those who don't know, we're working for Vivek Ramaswamy here. You can say what you want about Vivek. You know what he stands for. He's got policy. He's very clear on everything. He's extremely articulate about where he wants to take the state. So that's when you are trying to change the party in power, which Republicans haven't won since 2006. Right. You have to outline your vision. What do you actually want to do?

[00:16:19] And I just love him or hate him. Mike's probably done that clearer than anyone else. And then when you get to the margins, this is where I agree with Will. I think it's going to be a year where I'm not sure any of these guys are going to win against Amy right now. Senator Klobuchar, I apologize, should be a little more formal. I do it all the time, too. I don't know if I am. And look, so it's like when you're arguing about the margins, you're talking about losing by 6-8, 8-10, 10-12.

[00:16:49] If you think that's going to determine the House majority when likely this could be worse than 2022 based on how these guys are performing right now, those are things that have to be considered. And again, it's like, let's just be realistic about where we're at. It's not yelling at anyone or saying it's anyone's fault, but like people just need a gut check and just say this is where it's at. And that's what this podcast is all about.

[00:17:17] If I can jump in here, Michael, I mean, we all know the phenomena of these Republican MAGA voters that don't show up when Donald Trump is on the ticket. Right. I mean, I have a in his 50s cousin who lives southern Minnesota who has voted three times in his life. And it was 2016, 2020 and 2024. Right. He's he goes out. He votes for Donald Trump. And those voters exist. They're out there. And I will say these other two candidates aren't going to pull them. Mike Lindell might.

[00:17:44] Mike Lindell might be enough to pull my cousin in Red Wing to go to that ballot and go cast a ballot at the voting box. I don't know for sure, but I would say of the three of them, he's by far the most likely to do that. And so, you know, I think the conventional wisdom on this is just it's off. It's people still don't understand populism, man. We've been in this this populist time for about 10 years now. People don't understand the president and his movement.

[00:18:10] Still, a lot of the people who are pretending to understand the president's movement have never truly embraced the president. It's questionable whether they ever voted for the president, despite posturing and other things. So. It's just time to be realistic about these things, you know, and I think. It's OK to have opinions, but reality is different from opinions and reality has transpired this week. And that's what people are finding out.

[00:18:36] I want to go back to something that was said about the professionalism of Lindell's campaign. And in the lead up to the state convention, Team Damath and their allied organizations and their allied support spent a lot of money, upwards of over a million dollars to try to get that endorsement. And they were not successful. I tweeted out that I think one of the most significant, non-really reported stories or underreported story was the amount of resources that they had leading up to that convention.

[00:19:05] And Damon still lost to Kendall Qualls. I think it's fair to say there is some there are some questions, I think, about the effectiveness of Lindell's campaign operation. But you honestly can't doubt the results this week and that he was able to get the support of the president. What does a billion to the degree that you have a perspective on this? Too well, always want to open up questions to both of you. But but Billy, you're in this this lane, you're in this universe.

[00:19:35] What put into explain to our listeners what a Lindell endorsement, a Trump endorsement of Mike Lindell means to his fundraising, his ability to build for the primary. How does he maximize? I mean, what is the potential that he gets from this? And what's the strategy to maximize this in the primary? Put it in some terms that folks can understand. Yeah. I just want to touch on the money spent before the convention quick because you made a great point on that.

[00:20:02] That was a categorical mistake. These are things because you need that money right now. Massively. They need that money so badly right now. I don't know what they got out of it. Maybe a slight bump. Maybe, you know, they probably got her numbers up a little bit, but you need that money in the last six weeks. If you're if and that's the that's the going back to just setting the timeline. You should have planned on going to the primary all the way through.

[00:20:32] You should have planned on spending this money in the primary. And the decision to do so before the convention, you can't spend six hundred thousand dollars on broadcast ads for a convention. That is malpractice, no matter what way you're looking at it. You know, I mean, like you have to use that money conservatively because, you know, I mean, even if you say you're going all in on the convention. Running broadcast ads for a convention of 2000 delegates is not the way to go. Right.

[00:21:01] So there's there's other ways to do spend that money effectively. And they need it now. They're going up against someone with 90 percent name ID and a presidential endorsement. So you need that million dollars now. So I don't know what ROI they can point to from that. But traditionally, you want to save that money for the last few weeks of the campaign. And for Lindell, it's going to juice his fundraising tremendously. I mean, I don't know. I haven't looked at a ton of his fundraising so far. I assume it's mostly been small dollar with a few big checks.

[00:21:31] But he'll get more big checks now. He'll get people that were skeptical before from the MAGA world that will cut him a check. He'll get friends that may have been skeptical or wanted to see something big happen. And he'll get a lot of small dollar donations, even if it's just enough for him to continue doing what he's doing. That's clearly been working for him. Will, your take?

[00:21:53] Yeah, I think without a doubt, this endorsement has dropped a political case of the cyclospora parasite on the Minnesota Republican Party this week. You know, you could see it on Twitter. They were all running for the Johns. And I think it's really sorry. Becky wasn't on, so I wanted to make that joke. That's great. I'm sorry. That's what happens when Becky's gone. We get bathroom jobs. I mean, it's just put the entire campaign cycle in a complete tailwind for them.

[00:22:20] Everyone's flailing, making big predictions and all this stuff. And they just look so, so bad and so dumb. And it makes them look so unprofessional. And, you know, the more we talk about this, I have to imagine this endorsement did not come without some sort of promise of professionalization of this campaign. Because big money donors, skeptical or not, they're going to have to get some sort of assurance that this is going to be a real campaign that Mike Lindell is going to run.

[00:22:46] And I find it hard to believe that won't happen, even if it's Trump world themselves, who we know have an axe to grind against the governor here, the current governor. And they're going to come in and they're going to want to win this race. So I would imagine more big checks will be coming in for Mike Lindell just on the promises of we're going to go for this thing really hard. We got a Trump endorsement now. And we're going to professionalize this thing. And we're going to go for it. You know, whether it matters or not, I don't really know. But I do, I would imagine that's going to be the case.

[00:23:16] One of the questions that one of the comments of the many silly comments I got in reaction to this was it's too late and there's not enough time to maximize this. That's laughable. I just laugh. Well, I'll tell you when it was too late. I'll give you an example of when it was too late.

[00:23:33] It was too late in Iowa when we were doing Randy Feenstra's race a month or so ago and we just didn't have enough time to get it out because I think we got it Friday before the election or something like that. That's days. Yeah, that was a couple of days before. This is weeks. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, again, it's on his timeline. He's got plenty of stuff going on, as everyone knows. So he's going to make the decision when he wants to make it.

[00:24:01] But in this case, Mike's a good friend of his. He did it a month out. That is plenty of time. And I think, Will, you may have said it earlier, or maybe it was you, Michael, earlier today, but there's not many people who voted so far. So it's not like it's Arizona where a ton of people early voted. That's a good point. I mean, Minnesota, yeah, a lot of people might vote early, but it's pretty much on the tail end. So I don't think it's too late at all. I categorically reject that.

[00:24:31] My question is, too late for what? Is it too late for him to win the primary or is it too late for him to get enough juice to win the general? Because it was too late to win the general, in my opinion, the minute I showed up and started killing Minneapolis citizens. That's when it was too late, in my opinion, for any candidate to win. Not Mike Lindell. Now, if it's too late for him to win the primary, I totally agree. I think that's completely absurd. That was the point that was being made. It was that it was too late.

[00:24:58] Some of the feedback I got, and it appears that there was some organization on some of the talking points. Lindell doesn't have the money to advertise this. And my response was, it's literally everywhere. So there's two ways campaigns get media, earn media and paid media. This was an earned media opportunity that will be maximized with some paid. And then it was also timing that it's too late to really be effective. And I thought that that was ridiculous. I mean, the Internet's on the computer. This information moves pretty quick.

[00:25:25] Billy, to Will's point on the professionalization of Lindell's operation, in your experience, does a Trump endorsement come with some expectations that the ship is going to be run a little tighter? For sure. I mean, they don't want his candidates to put him in a bad spot if that's a concern. I mean, not that they're taking over the campaign from you or breathing down your neck or anything like that.

[00:25:53] But they definitely expect you to run it to a high standard. It's the president of the United States. He deserves excellence. He expects excellence from people he endorses. And so, yeah, they want people to run a tight operation and defend the president's endorsement. So they expect you to spend money. They expect you to be organized. They expect you to advertise his endorsement. And they expect you to use it like the tool that it is. It's the most powerful endorsement in American political history.

[00:26:21] Nobody's ever wielded an endorsement like that and reshaped an entire political party in the way that he has. So I think that's the expectation because he's so influential that they certainly do expect that level of excellence for someone of his stature within the party. And he doesn't want to get embarrassed either, right? He's obviously very, very image conscious and doesn't want to have a candidate he endorses just get blown out of the water because he endorsed a clown. You know, that would be a terrible look for him.

[00:26:51] And all the people that donated based on that endorsement, you know, he gave his word on this. And if money comes behind that, he will not let it be turned into a total clown show, I would assume. So that's sort of just where I base it on. I want to go back to something that I think is too significant to pass over and not have a second bite in it, which is interest of disclosure. Never voted for the president. I was a Republican for Harrison Walls. But always want to have a balanced podcast.

[00:27:20] Always want to listen and always, you know, have good reports with people on all sides of the aisle. And what surprises me, and I want to get back to this, is, well, we discussed it back in May. I'd obviously spoken to Billy. Why, again, whoever wants to go first, why were you two not surprised, but a whole bunch of people who get paid to not be surprised were surprised in Minnesota?

[00:27:49] And I mean a lot of the Republicans that are working on these campaigns and the gubernatorial campaigns. Why did they misread this so much? Billy, why don't you go first? These are your colleagues on the Republican side. Yeah, look, I think, again, it comes back to a lot of these people have never been big fans of the president. They really don't embrace authentically a lot of the principles of his movement and the populism that comes with that. And they think a lot of these people in the base are crazy. They detest them.

[00:28:18] They don't want to interact with them. They think they're weird. They don't take some of the candidates seriously that the mega base supports. And I think as a byproduct of that, you're going to be surprised sometimes by what comes out when you don't respect the people that make up your base.

[00:28:41] First of all, that's how we got Donald Trump in the first place, because Republicans are putting forward such bad candidates like John McCain and Mitt Romney and these people that were just embarrassing the brand and didn't stand for what we wanted our candidates to do. And so over time, you saw these things change. And Donald Trump was the catalyst of that. Thank God for him, because who knows what would have been Jeb Bush 10 years later, what that party would have looked like.

[00:29:07] So but if you don't authentically embrace the president, how can you truly represent him or what he stands for? So that's why they struggle to then translate it into a message in a primary and run a mega campaign. Bill, it's always nice talking to an undecided voter. It really is. It's really nice to just. I know I'm a real independent. Talk to an undecided voter. Will, your take? Yeah, I will say this. I think.

[00:29:33] Well, first of all, these are the same people that were surprised when Jeff Johnson beat Tim Pawlenty in that primary in 2022. Right. Where my whole research department predicted it. We were the only people basically anywhere who were like, this isn't going to be close, to be honest with you. Johnson's going to kill him. And Pawlenty's raising money and not doing anything else. He's not. He only ran negative ads. He just ran. 100%. He just ran his name ID. And it's like, I think.

[00:29:58] But I do think this issue exists in both parties in some ways amongst the consulting class where they have completely lost touch of who everyday Minnesotans are and Americans in a lot of ways. And everything's poll tested. Nothing is genuine and from the heart. And they do not understand the reaction, the visceral reaction that people get when they talk to a candidate who has seemingly come off a conveyor belt as a politician.

[00:30:25] And they just do not understand that that is dying in America. Like, the appeal of that to people is dying out. And it's going away with the high cost of living, $4 get. You know what I mean? It's endless wars. And, like, these are complaints coming from both sides of the aisle, too, right? It's nobody is bleeping, listening to them. And they're so sick of hearing the same crap from the same people who are coming out of the same factories. And I think they just, you know, they poll test Lisa Damus messaging.

[00:30:53] But have you ever believed a word Lisa Damus has ever said that she really believes in it? Like, not. I certainly haven't. They, a lot of these candidates blow up the wind and whatever's, like, high on the polls. And it's just, like, I do think it's a problem. And it's a fight I've been fighting. And, honestly, this is a conversation I was having yesterday about it. And I just, and I think it's to Billy's point about populism. And I think populism is seen as radicalism. And oftentimes, right? I do think in many cases it can be radical as well.

[00:31:20] But I do think populism is just fighting against the status quo. And Dusty Gragi, Andy Bream, whatever that guy's name is, you know, all these, Paul Gazelka, they all come from that, that they're established and they do not want to give up that power. And they refuse, they don't even live in a bubble that could help them comprehend why Mike Lindell might win this race. And they just, that's why, I mean, that's why they lose. That's why people, like, these candidates just miss the point over and over and over again.

[00:31:49] And I am talking about candidates on both sides. And they can't comprehend it because they don't live in any sort of a bubble that allows that kind of conversation in. And so that's sort of where I'm at with it. That's why they miss so much. The reaction to the Lindell endorsement afterwards, and I'm going to be very specific about oppo hits that have come out. Now, I think it's fair to say, and Billy, I think you would and Will would agree with this, that this was like Christmas morning for the Democrats.

[00:32:18] And for a lot of the establishment Republicans, they were pretty upset. And so I don't think from a strategery standpoint, quote George W. Bush, from a strategery standpoint, that it makes a ton of sense for Democrats to drop a bunch of oppo now on Lindell because they would like to have him. So I have to believe that what's come out now is kind of the cycle that Trump has talked about in the past, which is kind of the swamp and the establishment coming out.

[00:32:45] And there's been a number of hits that have come out, not to take anything away from the journalists that are breaking them, but they're suddenly coming out. And so a part of me thinks that what's going to start happening is, and I've talked about this before, that, you know, I grew up, Reagan was the Teflon president. I think Trump is the new Teflon president, even more than Reagan was in some instances. And I wonder if what we're going to see in the next few weeks, which has happened in the last few days since the endorsement, which is some of these piddly little hits on Lindell,

[00:33:14] if that's not going to have a boomerang effect, that the MAGA supporters, that people that are diehard for the president have seen this game played out. And so if Lindell starts to get intact and he starts getting hit, independent of the validity of them, the mere fact that he's getting attacked,

[00:33:35] I think it's going to help him out in the long run because that's what a large portion of the MAGA base sees that the establishment does. And this has shooken up. And I will just say to you, I've never seen anything like this. And I've seen a lot in the last 30 years of politics. But in terms of a candidate endorsement, Donald Trump absolutely flipped the landscape of the Republican Party in Minnesota upside down with that endorsement.

[00:34:03] And for anyone who ever thought that Donald Trump was not the most significant voice in the party was a fool because it just consumed. And it's fundamentally even on a state that he hasn't won. He's just he came in and he's got that ability to do that. And so my long point that I'm trying to say is when that as the as I think it's fair to say, and I'm not a part of it, I'm not a part of these campaigns. But it's fair to say that the only thing you can do is go after that some of these campaigns are going to do is go after Lindell.

[00:34:33] And I don't think that's going to work. You folks. Can I if I could jump in here real quick? Of course. I don't want to give away, you know, the ghost too much on this. But as someone who has worked in opposition research and and communications for a state party. Well, first of all, I will say there's not much that can be found on Mike Lindell probably that has not already been said. Right. I mean, like if you gave me a book, I'm like, well, you go out, go to Google, man. I mean, like, what else do you need here? Right.

[00:35:02] But what I also say is when you got someone like Mike Lindell, what the party wants to be doing, in my opinion, is going out and saying he's too mega. He's too conservative. He's he fights too hard for the right to life. You know what I mean? You want all the stuff that will fire up the Republican base about him the most. I want to attack him on that right now. So it inspires them to go out. He's going to fight so hard for your Second Amendment rights too hard. You know, those kind of things.

[00:35:29] We're going to pull out those hits in a primary where it's like you're going to fire up their base by attacking some of these certain things. Right. And because you want him to be the candidate ultimately. So you do not pull out any of the big stuff. Now, I mean, again, Liddell is kind of a unique candidate because he's sort of he, you know, his books already been written. Everybody knows all of Mike Lindell stuff. But right now it's like hit him on the stuff that the red meat of their base loves because that'll rally the troops behind him. And that'll like only boost him on their side.

[00:35:58] The DFL is attacking his staunch pro-lifeism, you know, those kind of things. Like I that's like the gamesmanship that so much fun in this work. And yes, those hits are going to rally the base as opposed to chase them away. Billy, your take. Yeah, look, I think I'm not going to give away my whole philosophy on politics here, but I think it's always a mistake to wait too late to attack somebody because the believability goes down.

[00:36:25] Especially when you're looking at someone with a very high built in name ID, you know, like it's hard to attack a guy like that already. And the fact that you're waiting until four weeks, three weeks before the election, just the believability goes down. When you're running for student council and the morning of the election, someone goes around and says, you know, this guy wants to tax our cookies at lunch. You got to pay more for them. I mean, like the believability goes down when you say it two hours before the election.

[00:36:54] So it's the same principle here. And a lot of the statement Alex Plekis made the other day is something that the other candidates should have been. If they really wanted to go after Mike, they could have been saying that stuff there the whole last few months, but they haven't really laid a glove on it. So again, it's just like these people want to obfuscate responsibility and say, oh, the president's, the president's fault for endorsing Mike. It's like you guys ran a bad race. You let this get to this point.

[00:37:24] You didn't land a single hit on Mike when you could have been doing it the whole time. You ignored the elephant in the room, the guy who is really going to be the viable threat. Well, you guys were fighting about dumb shit the whole time. And look where I got you. This is where you are now. And so the establishment got themselves into this jam. So I know people are concerned about the down ticket, but at some point as Republicans, this is when you got to look inward and say, we got to make a change of what we're doing.

[00:37:54] Because the people that have made these decisions have made them before. And like at some point, you got to change what you're doing. So this is a time for choosing, right? I mean, you got to, are you going to go forward and find candidates who at least understand Trump enough to win a primary that you're going to get behind because you don't want to keep investing in people who can't get through a primary? Or are you just going to keep blaming the base and saying they're crazy and not understanding that times are changing?

[00:38:21] It's your choice, you know, but if you just want to say everyone's crazy, I think you're crazy for not changing. Well, I want to be clear that when I, to your first point, when I was in, when I ran for student council at Forest Lake High School, I did attack my opponent aggressively and early, even when I was in high school. I didn't wait till, I didn't wait till the day of, but you bring up a good point about. Huffed in a locker a couple of times too. Exactly.

[00:38:45] To bring up a point though, and Will, you watch the Republicans antics as better than the Republicans do in many cases. I don't remember there being a lot of focus on Lindell in the lead up to the state convention. It was Qualls and Damath going back and forth. Did, was there a missed, if you're looking back now, did people miss, miscalibrate, miscalculate the significance and the role that Mike Lindell would play? I don't think so.

[00:39:13] I think, I think Mike Lindell on his own has sort of made himself a bit of a caricature and not someone who I think people take very seriously. I think I agree with Billy a hundred percent. Their miss was not winning themselves by not taking a huge lead that would keep Trump out. That was the only way that was going to happen. If Lisa Damuth was up by 20 points right now, Mike Lindell wouldn't have come in and made this endorsement.

[00:39:37] If there was an obvious, well-seasoned candidate who was going to be an obvious winner here, Donald Trump would not have come in and endorsed Mike Lindell or maybe even endorsed that. But by their just complete lack of ability to take any sort of lead and they're being just bad candidates, they cost themselves. And that's it. Like attacking Mike Lindell wouldn't have done anything in my opinion. I think it probably would have hurt them even more for quite frankly.

[00:40:07] Billy, your take? I don't necessarily think so. I mean, I think, I think, you know, you have to, you have to make the case for yourself. So if you're, if you're going to say you're the mega candidate, you have to outline why you can at least carry that torch. Not that you're going to be more mega than Mike, but you got to at least make an argument that to the president, that you can be the person who understands his message. And his priorities as governor.

[00:40:34] And if you want that endorsement, you have to position yourself like that. It's again, the idea that you're just going to have some wishful scenario where there's no endorsement when one of his good friends is running. That's probably not going to happen. You have to make the case yourself. And not that I'm not saying, you know, go out and say, oh, Mike, his taxes were late or whatever, but argue that it's about who's the best leader to carry the torch and win.

[00:41:02] Like, I mean, you can make those arguments if you make them competently. And you can also make, take Mike has his issues he's strong on. There's other mega issues that you could have been strong on. It's not just the election security. You could have talked about many other things and made that your issue, but nobody really did. And as a result, this is where they're at.

[00:41:23] One of the things I thought was interesting in the aftermath, in the initial reporting of the Mike Lindell endorsement, the Donald Trump endorsement of Mike Lindell is a GOP operative close to the Demeth campaign discussed this concept of a dual endorsement, which I thought was a bad thing to discuss after the president had already endorsed her opponent.

[00:41:44] Billy, can you offer some perspective on how dual endorsements have worked in other states and why discussing that strategy in public might not be a smart move? Yeah, dual endorsements are typically issued in races where both candidates were going like super all out for the president's support. And he may have been put in a situation where it was really unclear who was going to win. So he decided, I'm just going to hedge my bets because I don't want to make, you know, they both be really good.

[00:42:14] And I hate to pick either one of them. That's very rare. But again, that's when both people are going full throttle for the president and have been great advocates for him traditionally. So one I worked on last cycle was in Arizona. Blake Masters was running against Abe Hommadee and Hommadee had the endorsement for months. Masters got a dual endorsement right at the end and Hommadee ended up winning narrowly. So that was one example.

[00:42:43] Another great one, legendary one was in Missouri in 2022. Eric Greitens, the ex-governor versus Eric Schmidt, the now fantastic senator. And he just said, go vote for Eric. I'm pretty sure it was along the line for each other. It was, it was, that was one of the more memorable ones. But again, that's like when both people have gone full throttle. And as a result of that, he's like, man, I really like them both. Really not sure what to do. Seems like it's going to be close.

[00:43:12] And then he'll just hedge. But that's, that's rare. And that's when both people have really gone all out for it. Traditionally. But you wouldn't, but you wouldn't discuss a dual strategy after you just lost the endorsement, would you? No, that's not something you should be discussing with the press. Well, when I was a kid, we used to ask my mom who their favorite kid was, right? And she would say, it's all of you. And it's like, what? That doesn't mean anything. It's completely irrelevant when, you know, it's like, okay, fine.

[00:43:41] You know, you don't endorse any of us, mom. Thank you very much. You know what I mean? It's just like, go ahead, get your dual endorsement. I mean, you're Republican. Like that establishes that you're Republican if it does anything. I don't know. I, it seems that'd be great if they got it. It wouldn't matter at all for our purposes. A final take, a question is, what's your prediction? What happens over the next, the next few weeks? I actually, I have one more thing I would like to point out. Go right ahead. Up on time that I have not heard anybody discuss yet. And I think this is really important.

[00:44:09] I mean, Mike Lindell's running mate is Phil Parrish. And if you think Mike Lindell. History, many people. What's that? So that's the most base ticket in history. It's without a doubt. If people think Mike Lindell is a little off the rails, it's not even a comparison between the two. Phil Parrish is genuinely, I forget what he calls himself. He has a nickname that we, we refer to him in our, in the office, but I, and I can't remember it right now,

[00:44:34] but if you think Mike Lindell is off the rails, waiting, the press starts repaying attention to this guy. It's not even a comparison. He's genuinely one of the craziest Republicans in the state of Minnesota, in my opinion. And I just, how is that not a giant liability? And I don't know the election rules here enough. If maybe part of this professionalization is they set Mr. Parrish aside, maybe do what they did in CD2 last cycle and make him the president of some campaign or something like that.

[00:45:02] I don't really know, but buy him off like, like Emmer did, but, and find somebody else. But I think that's going to be a real liability. If, if Lindell had any hope at all in a general, having Phil Parrish put a mic, you put a mic in front of that guy and then let him go. Like I'm, I'm hyped about that. No, it is a opposition researcher's dream. And also for the media and to Billy's point, most base ticket ever. Billy, your perspective. Again, at least these guys stand for something.

[00:45:31] I mean, that's why they're in the position they're in. I can tell you, love Phil or hate Phil. I can tell you what he stands for. I cannot tell you a single issue that anyone else is running on in the primary or what they want to accomplish or some of their issues. And by the way, Phil was banging the drum on Somali fraud before it was cool. Hashtag Phil was right. Justice for Phil, you know, he hits one once in a while, man. And that happened to be a big one.

[00:46:00] So it's like all the powers on some of this stuff. Well, so we get that trending. Swamp Hunter. Shout out, Chris, Phil Parrish, Swamp Hunter. And, you know, this is like, Alex Jones predicted 9-11. He made, he said alien people, all this stuff. And, you know, every once in a while you get one right. I guess you can give that one to Phil. I think if Philip Parrish could arrest me, he would.

[00:46:22] I mean, that's how, like, I think if he gets elected lieutenant governor and he's a part of some squad, I think I'll be on his list to get arrested maybe, possibly. Okay, now I'm listening, Phil. That's right. So what happens? Give us, you know, 60 seconds each on how to the next, predict if you can, and how does this play out in the next few weeks? Look, I'll say, given how things are going right now, I'm predicting Lindell coming out with like 42 to 45. Oof. Damus somewhere in the high to mid-30s.

[00:46:52] Paul's in the low 20s. Or high teens, somewhere around there. That's just how I see this shaking out. I don't see anyone doing anything that crazy over the next few weeks to really shake things up. This has been a pretty sleepy race, to be honest. And that's why the Republicans are in the position they're in, as we've discussed. And I think it's hard to get out of bad habits once you form them. I think some of these campaigns have been a fairly lackluster, low-energy effort.

[00:47:21] And it's hard to like just turbocharge yourself. Like, let me give myself my shot here and I'm all good. I'm going to hyperdrive for the last five weeks after not really doing anything of substance for the last year plus. So, I think it's hard to shake that. And look, I also think, again, a lot of people at the end in these primaries this year, we've seen it all over. Midwest, East Coast, West Coast, South.

[00:47:49] People that are undecided at the end largely are going to go with the president's pick as long as they can get that out there. Which, again, some people have made some points. They might not have the money to do it. There might be some money that shows up. We'll see. But if they can get that message out, again, they're using social media and things they have at their disposal. If they can get that awareness up, it's going to be tough to beat them. Will, your take? Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate.

[00:48:18] I would say I think it's probably going to end up a little closer than between Lindell and Damath. I think probably within two points in this primary. I can't say which way it's going to go. There might be some real inside dirty secrets that folks know about Lindell, who's been around the party for a while. Who knows if that stuff comes out? But I think the biggest takeaway is the enthusiasm gap is going to grow between DFL and Minnesota GOP. I think it's going to grow.

[00:48:44] And I do think Republicans, some Republicans will be fired up for Lindell. But I do think that glass ceiling of hardcore MAGA in Minnesota is going to get hit. And I think a lot of the sort of moderate voters are going to sit it out. And I think it'll be a drubbing in November in that race. But I do think that Lindell will probably take it. But it'll be a little closer than something. Billy, you are in Ohio. And Will and I are in Minnesota. Toss out question to end.

[00:49:15] Do the Minnesota Timberwolves get LeBron James? I'm optimistic right now. I mean, he's been all over the map. Like, he's making it. He's definitely. I mean, I think about how. I mean, LeBron is just an absolute. I mean, he's my goat. I don't give a fuck. Michael Jordan. I don't care. Like, you know, I mean, at this point, the guy's 40 years old. He's still averaging the same number of points he was as a rookie. He's the most talked about free agent at 40 years old. But I mean, it looks like it's Cleveland or it's Minnesota. I don't know.

[00:49:44] I mean, I'm feeling optimistic. Could be Miami maybe. But I think it's Cleveland or Minnesota. Will? I got LeBron in a Wolves jersey tattooed somewhere on my body this week. So let's hope he does. Because it would be the greatest moment in my entire life of Timberwolves fandom. It would be the most incredible thing ever. I'm so excited for even to be in the conversation. My girlfriend's not from here and constantly makes fun of Minnesota. I send her every single thing I see on social media about LeBron coming here. So I'm hoping so.

[00:50:15] Yeah, I think there's legitimate basketball reasons for him to come. And I think at this point, you know, he's such an icon. He's such an icon. The small market doesn't matter. As Anthony Edwards has proven, I don't think the markets are irrelevant now. Social media and bifurcation of media consumption. I think it really does not matter where you're at. So. Gentlemen, this has been an absolute treat to host and to listen to both of your perspectives. I wish Becky could have been here.

[00:50:44] But this is, aside from Becky not being here, one of my favorite episodes, just to hear two people from different sides of the aisle with such wisdom and experience and help break this down for me and for our listeners. I just kind of say thanks to you both for doing this. Make sure to promote the hell out of this episode. And I hope Billy, you'll come back and we'll, I will. I hope you'll come back again to it would be great to have you back. I want to thank all of our listeners for joining us for this episode of the breakdown with broad, Corbin Becky before you go show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us

[00:51:13] review in Apple podcasts or on the platform where you listen. You can also find us on our website and across all social media platforms that at BB break, but the breakdown of the book, rocker, Becky will be back next week. Thank you so much for joining us.