A Break Down on Drunk Driving Reform with Rep. Larry Kraft

[00:00:12] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy, and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherr. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. We are excited to be back this week and joined by first-time guest, State Representative Larry Kraft. Representative Kraft is serving his second term in the Minnesota House representing the St. Louis Park area. With Rep. Kraft, we are going to be diving into the legislation he is leading in response to the tragic drunk driving incident at Park Tavern last year on Labor Day.

[00:00:40] Kraft is taking charge with a proposal of a new law that would introduce stiffer penalties for repeat DWI offenders and hopefully reduce recurrences. Following our time with Rep. Kraft, we will be discussing the disturbing incident that came to light earlier this week as news broke of Republican Senator Justin Eichhorn being arrested for soliciting a minor for sex in Bloomington, leading up to his resignation from the Senate just days later. There's a lot to get into, so thank you for joining us and enjoy the show.

[00:01:09] We are excited to welcome Representative Kraft to the podcast for the first time. Thank you for joining us today. Thanks for inviting me. We are going to be discussing a piece of legislation that you are leading on, but I want to set the table and remind people what this is all about.

[00:01:25] Last Labor Day, there was a really tragic incident at Park Tavern in your district where a driver who has five previous DWI convictions was driving at four times the legal limit and plowed into the patio, killing two individuals, injuring nine. It was a really horrific situation.

[00:01:47] And it prompted you and Representative Latt to introduce legislation to take action, to make change, to say this is enough. We need to do more, especially when it comes to repeat offenders. So I want to hear from you why we chatted recently of it is because of stories. It is because of incidents. It's unfortunate because of tragic situations that laws are passed and changes are made.

[00:02:12] What from this situation prompted you to make change, to represent your community and to make changes for all Minnesotans? Yeah, if you live in St. Louis Park, then you have memories at Park Tavern. It's just integrated within the fabric of our community. I have spent time on that patio myself. So it was the randomness of it that just really impacted the community. And my mother-in-law lives across the street.

[00:02:40] So I remember her texting me that night saying, hey, there's something going on at Park Tavern. And then as it gradually came out, it just is so emotional for everyone, so raw. So within a few days, when you hear, hey, this guy had five priors. And actually, it turned out I think he had a sixth when he was younger in Wisconsin. And you go, why is it that he's still able to do that? And so I didn't get into politics to focus on this issue, but sometimes issues just come to you.

[00:03:10] And so I started looking into it. Within a few days, I reached out to folks in research and in our support staff and said, hey, can you get me some information? What's going on here? And I started looking into it. And I found stuff that was, I think, alarming to me. And really looking at those that do multiple offenses, what I learned was, if you commit a single offense, most people don't commit a second.

[00:03:39] But when you commit a second offense, the likelihood of committing a third and a fourth goes way up. And some studies show that's the harm caused by those who are disproportionate to single offenders. And then I looked at our statutes for, especially around ignition interlock. I was really taking it from a public safety perspective. How can we try to prevent these things? And our statutes go linearly. That if you've, on your second offense, you get a year.

[00:04:09] On your third offense, you get two years on interlock. On your fourth offense, you get three years. And just looked at that and said, that doesn't seem to fit the data. The data says if you commit a second, you should probably be spending more time. If you commit a third, dramatically more. And so that's the path that I took. The data just, to me, led me there that it was natural to require people that have multiple offenses to have more time on interlock and more time that we're recognizing that there are more harm.

[00:04:38] And for those who may not know, explain a little bit about what interlock is and how that works. Yeah. So ignition interlock, it's the best way I describe it is it's like a breathalyzer built into your car. It gets installed in your vehicle and then you have to blow on it to drive. And then you also have to blow and register that you're not intoxicated. Every, tends to be every 20 minutes or so as you're going.

[00:05:03] So it's a tool to make sure that if you have an issue, if you have a problem, that you can't get behind the wheel and drive when you're intoxicated. The other thing that does is it actually can help folks address sobriety in general because there is this repeat need to blow into it. So that's what it does. But there was, in one of the articles I was reading about this, you brought up a study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,

[00:05:32] which found that ignition interlock devices can reduce repeat DWI offenses by about 70%. Talk to us about this and how, again, this just seems, it seems like a no-brainer. Yeah. Yeah. When you start looking at the data on this, and that was one study, and the folks at Mothers Against Drunk Driving can provide numerous others, the thing that comes out is that it works. When it's installed, it prevents repeat offenses.

[00:06:00] There is some debate as after you get off it, does the people revert back? And we saw with this individual in St. Louis Park that he did, which is why in the legislation we're tightening up to make sure that treatment is also required in all cases when there's a repeat offense. It works 70% of the time to prevent repeat offenses. So it seems to me like a no-brainer that we should be doing this and requiring more of it for repeat offenses.

[00:06:25] I just want to take a moment to remind our listeners that in 2013, I pleaded guilty to drinking and driving. I've been a volunteer for the last 12-plus years, volunteering, just volunteered this last weekend. This is an issue that's very important to me. It should be important to all Minnesotans, but it's very important and personal to me. And when I saw, I heard about the tragedy that happened, but when I saw the news coverage about Representative Kraft's bill, Senator Latz's bill, and some of the bipartisan support, we wanted to have him come on.

[00:06:54] And I think what you're hearing, I really want to compliment Representative Kraft and the other people behind this legislation, because what you're hearing is a very common-sense solution to something that affects all of us. We all travel on the same roads. And whether it's someone who is a first-time offender or has problems, Interlock, in my experience, is one of the best ways in which to help people deal with their addiction issues and continue to drive.

[00:07:23] We want people to have licenses. We want people who are going through this process to be able to commute, be able to rebuild their lives. And this is a common-sense, necessary step that's needed. And my compliments to Representative Kraft, Senator Latz, and the other members who kind of focus-grouped this and worked together to come up with this initiative. It's really where we need to be. And I want to just say, as someone who's been an offender but also has been volunteering in,

[00:07:52] this is the type of, this is an example of where the legislature is doing good work. And we hear all the time about partisan bickering, but this is a bipartisan solution to a tragedy. Tying into what Becky said a week or so ago about the importance of storytelling, legislation comes out of these tragic events. And to see Representative Kraft and other members of the legislature come together and focus on it this way,

[00:08:19] I would just say, as someone who's experienced this on the wrong side, this is the type of solution that can really be impactful. Yeah, thank you for that. And I really appreciate your focus on this issue over the past decade plus. And I do have to say, I think, you know, I certainly started asking questions, but one of my first calls was to Senator Latz because he has so much experience in this area. And he was just invaluable as we worked this issue. And then also, some folks you don't see behind the scenes,

[00:08:48] a fellow by the name of Zach Minertz, our House DFL research, and Ben Johnson, who drafts the laws, who educated me because I knew next to nothing about this area. To work through, let's really understand it. Let's look at the data. And it just led us to this, I think, to this approach. Where would this put Minnesota in comparison to other states? Minnesota, we like to think, I traveled the state and have spoken to jails and schools and do a lot of Zoom meetings now.

[00:09:18] But there is a real need, I think, for assistance in the substance use disorder community and in dealing with these types of issues. Where does this legislation fit in comparison to other states? Do you have any data on that about how this would impact and how we would stand in terms of other states in dealing with these issues? I do have some information, a little bit, maybe not at the top of all the specific details.

[00:09:42] But what we learned was that there are, we probably were more middle-ish of the pack on this. There were other states that have the longer periods that we're proposing. So we're going to be towards the top end of the periods. But there's other states that do. One of the other things that we changed is that we have a look-back period for some offenses of 10 years, and we're making that 20 years. And that probably puts us a little bit towards the top end there. But there are some states that have lifetime look-back periods for all offenses.

[00:10:11] So I think this puts us, let's say, more on the vanguard of really trying to deal with these repeat offenses. But there are others out there that are doing it similarly. I think that's something that we should all be supportive of. If Minnesota wants to be ahead on some things, let's be ahead on education. Let's be ahead on some common sense public safety initiatives. And this seems one, particularly that look-back feature. Again, I want to remind our listeners that DWI is an enhanceable offense.

[00:10:40] You have one, they track them, and they're enhanceable offenses. I had one in 2013. But if you have three in 10 years, it can be felony charges and things like that. And so looking back and seeing the behavior is so critically important. And looking back and reviewing and sending that back to 20 years, that makes a lot of sense. That's really an important tool here.

[00:11:05] And I will say, folks that are exhibiting these patterns of doing it multiple times are probably experiencing issues. The alcoholism is a disease and need help. And so built into this is treatment. That is a portion of this. At the end of the day, driving is really, it's a privilege, not a right. And I think that it's important that we have to bias towards, we need to keep the roads safe. So I think that's what we've tried to do with this legislation. Absolutely.

[00:11:34] And one other thing is in the treatment process, and that's what I think the balance is here. I think the breathalyzer, the tool, is so important in how you have the interlock in that sense. Because what it does is, again, we want people integrated back into the community. One of the things we want is we want them to be able to, as they're going through treatment and they're reentering society in the aftermath of this, having a car is important. But also abiding by the rules is just as important. As you said, driving is a privilege.

[00:12:04] And so how do we find a way to balance allowing people to maintain their individual freedoms in terms of driving, but also simultaneously recognizing these are individuals who are having some difficulties in life with a disease. And this ignition lock system, for our listeners, like a car breathalyzer, is such a common sense, critical piece of that support structure. And I want to frame it that way. I want to frame it as it helps people. It's a support structure.

[00:12:34] It aids them in this process, as you articulated. This enhances everything else that they're doing in their lives to get back up, have jobs, be stable. And this is a tool that's needed. And again, just I'm going to keep saying this throughout this episode, but I just it just makes sense and just makes sense. Becky.

[00:12:53] Yeah, no, I just wanted to reiterate that I do think that is something that was great to see in your comments and reasoning behind this legislation is that eventual hopeful path towards sobriety or conquering alcoholism or whatever issues an individual may have. And, Michael, always, I think it is a true testament to you for sharing your story, being so vocal and active in this space over the last decade plus.

[00:13:19] I think that's incredible and could never give you enough props for that because I know it's probably not easy to go out and share a situation that was from a tough part of your time. But it has certainly changed lives. And you have had so many speeches over so many years with so many different groups of people. So thank you for doing that. Representative Kraft, what is the path forward here? We know that there is bipartisan support. There are bicameral support here.

[00:13:47] Have you had any hearings or are there any on the book soon? Yeah, so great question. And I also want to say to give props to Michael as well, because it is the stories that change people. I followed a rational approach to this bill. But at the end of the day, it's the emotion. It's the stories. That's the thing that people connect to that causes change. I actually have first hearing in the House today. This is Wednesday in the Transportation Committee. And then we'll go to public safety.

[00:14:16] And the Senate has their first hearing this Friday in Senator Latz's Public Safety and Judiciary Committee. Becky and I have been talking a lot about the importance of legislating through storytelling and why that's important. Tragedy, positive and good. And can you give some perspective on what it's like? You're a legislator. You get there's a lot of legislation. No disrespect to the legislative process. That can be sometimes a bit dry.

[00:14:45] That can be sometimes very process heavy. This one takes on a much different importance. Not say that it detracts from those that are pretty dry. But this is an issue. This is a piece of legislation born out of a tragedy. How do you approach that as a legislator when you're dealing with, first of all, you know, such a complex issue, but also when there's victims and there's people that were traumatized by this, aside from those lost family members, people in the community.

[00:15:14] So your mother-in-law lives across the street. This is an impact like this, a DWI crash, the death of people in such a tragic way, shatters the community. How do you approach drafting legislation in that type of environment? Yeah, I think number one is carefully doing a lot of listening, trying to be respectful and telling the stories involving. I met with folks at Park Tavern. I met with folks at Methodist Hospital.

[00:15:43] They've been involved in this as we've rolled it out. I think it's, in some ways, it's not rocket science. It's you need to involve all the stakeholders and listen a lot and try to incorporate that into your storytelling. I do think it's really important to always, as you're presenting legislation, always have the why behind the legislation and to try to connect people to how this impacts lives and can improve lives. I try to take that with all legislation that I do.

[00:16:09] In this one, it's obviously even more important and appropriate and raw. Do you think that this is legislation that if passed, the governor would sign? I would hope so. I haven't spoken to him directly about this. I will. But the other piece to this is one of my constituents is our lieutenant governor. So she has been involved in this as well. And that's a good quote in the press release would have probably would have attended.

[00:16:38] But she was out of town on the day we did the press conference. So I'm in touch with the administration. I'm not a super genius, but I think it's good having the lieutenant governor district. I love having her as one of my constituents. Thank you so much. Maybe one other thing I would add is in doing this, my Republican lead in the House is Representative Jeff Witte, who's ex-law enforcement. And his input on this and advice has been invaluable.

[00:17:04] So this is the kind of issue I think that should bring us together in a bipartisan fashion. And I think it is. We have spoken to Representative Witte before on an issue last year. And so I think what Minnesotans can take away from this is we have a tragedy. We have a tragic situation. And as we've talked about on this podcast before, legislation comes out of that.

[00:17:26] But here we have a situation where legislators stepped out from both sides and from both institutions, both the House and Senate work together in tandem to come up with legislation that Minnesotans should feel good about. If you are someone who is law and order, you should understand that this is an aspect of law and order. If you're someone who wants to take an approach of allowing people some grace and opportunity, this is also an approach in that.

[00:17:52] This is an incredibly thoughtful approach to a very serious topic. And as someone who drives myself, someone who has three kids that in some ways are out there driving, we all drive on these roads. And this is the type of legislation that should really have universal backing, but again, born out of a tragedy. And it's so important that people recognize all the chaos that's going on at the Capitol, good and bad, that there are some really amazing stories going on born out of tragedy.

[00:18:22] And I just want to say my compliments to you for dealing with this, for navigating this issue in such, as you said carefully, but coming up with an incredibly thoughtful approach that the reality is will save lives. Thank you.

[00:18:37] Thank you.

[00:19:08] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing the work and leading on this and bringing this team together to move this forward. We will be anxiously awaiting the hearings and committees this week and next, and fingers crossed this moves forward and starts to change some lives. Thank you so much. That's the hope. Representative, where can people follow you to track this issue and stay on top of all of your legislative activities?

[00:20:01] Yeah. That's great. We will make sure to put a link to that in this episode and we will promote this on our social media platforms and advertise where people can follow this legislation and keep track of what's going on with you. Okay. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me on. Becky, we just conducted an interview with representative Larry Kraft. And I want to note our backgrounds are different because there was a delay.

[00:20:30] We had a little technical issue for the, one of the first times we use Riverside and there was a slight issue with the recording. And so we've had to delay the launch of this additional episode, but I want to give a tip of the cap to customer service at Riverside. They were able to help figure out the syncing of the audio issue and it was great. And this isn't a product placement and we're not paid to say this, but Riverside for all of your podcast needs. But we interviewed representative Larry Kraft. Your take on the interview. That was my first time interacting with representative Kraft.

[00:21:00] And I think his passion for his service and community really came through. I think it really, it is clear that he saw a tragic incident in his community. He saw a void and he sought out the help of his network at the Capitol with on both sides of the aisle with the nonpartisan staff researchers and found this because there was a void. There was a need to move forward and he took action to do.

[00:21:27] And I think that's what we want from our legislators, right? When they see something that needs to be done is to find a way to make it happen. And I think it's really impressive. I've worked in politics for quite a long time and you don't, as simple as it sounds, thanking those around you is not always done. And for him to give shout outs to researchers who is something, those are folks that work so incredibly hard and have such a vast knowledge.

[00:21:53] For him to give a shout out to them and to his Republican counterpart, former retired police officer, Senator Latz. He was just a wealth of it takes a lot of people to make this stuff happen. And it seems like he is great at leading the charge. And it's exciting to know that there are hearings going on, that this is moving forward and hopefully gets across the finish line. Yes. First of all, let me say it was the first time I've spoken with him to you. And just on a couple of points on some things that we've discussed in the past.

[00:22:23] He was incredibly accessible. I sent him an email, was willing to come on, very responsive. That's what you want from an elected official. And again, I live in Eagan. He's not my state rep, but state legislators have a statewide constituency aside from their local representation. And he got back to me right away and was incredibly accessible and also patient with the delays in the re-release of the release of the podcast here. And I think if you live in his district, I think something that we've talked a lot about customer service and serving your constituents.

[00:22:52] I think he, by all I would say, he's doing a great job. Then his demeanor. I caught up on the same things. Very thoughtful and willing to. First of all, this is an incredibly complicated issue. It's not just as simple as just law and order type of stuff. And the manner in which he went about this was very thoughtful. And as he said, carefully. And he was concerned about impacts in the community. And he obviously talked about his mother-in-law living just across the street and he'd been to that location. And so he did so very carefully.

[00:23:22] And that's the type of thoughtfulness we should want to see out of our legislators from both sides of the aisle. And it was a great opportunity to see a legislator that, because of his, not my local state rep, not your local state rep, but because of his work on this issue, I was really impressed by, number one, how responsive he was. How thoughtful he was about approaching this subject matter. And then number two, how he discussed the interview.

[00:23:48] He was very giving of and wanted to showcase that other people were a part of the process. And that's what really that servant legislator, that servant kind of public servant, that's someone who wants to get back. Boy, I think he's going to be going places. I don't know what his plan is and what he wants to do. But one of the things we like to do on this podcast is put on our partisan hats sometimes and also just our political hats. And I got to tell you something, I was really impressed by the conversation.

[00:24:14] And I feel good that, particularly on an issue that means a lot to me, and I discussed it and disclosed it in the interview, to have someone as thoughtful as he is and working with other thoughtful members of the legislature. This is a situation of where I think the legislative process is working. And we hear all these situations of where it's not, there's partisan breakdowns and bickering.

[00:24:37] Here's a situation where a legislator working to deal with a tragedy in his community worked in a careful and thoughtful way and has presented a solution that I think will keep us all safe. And I appreciated the background knowledge, too, of these interlock devices and how they can reduce repeat offenders or offenses by almost 70 percent. That's huge. That's massive.

[00:25:02] And I think having that, in addition to preventing initial tragedies, preventing future tragedies, and hopefully getting some folks who have a disease, have issues with alcohol, getting them the help they need, encouraging them through different deterrents like this to seek help. That's certainly something, a part of this is getting that additional help as well.

[00:25:24] But preventing recurrences, which is something we've talked about on this and something I know you advocate for when you go around and speak a lot and should just absolutely be commended for the work you're doing here. It's an important issue to you, to me, to our communities. And it was great to chat with Representative Kraft about that. It was. And one last point I want to bring up because, again, I've mentioned this, I think I've mentioned this before. I know I've mentioned it on the podcast, but I've also said it publicly. I think one of the best points you ever made on the podcast was when you made about storytelling.

[00:25:54] And the importance of storytelling and how legislation comes from that. And I think that this is a perfect example of how when you have a thoughtful legislator who wants to provide a solution for a tragedy, it can come out of, and the storytelling of that situation really impacts the process and really impacts the success of it. There's going to be a lot of bills that are going to be introduced this legislative session. There is every legislative.

[00:26:22] Some of them are relatively dry and procedural. But there are some issues that come up that get more significance, that get more attention because of the story around them. And I think that Representative Kraft, by leading in this way, also I think it dovetails into the – it connects to the example that you laid out in an episode a couple weeks ago about how legislation comes from storytelling.

[00:26:48] And I think that there's a comms PR discussion that we could have at some point more about that. But I think it really drives home the point that you made about storytelling and how that process works. Absolutely. I think it helps spur a lot of change. And certainly the families, the friends, the loved ones, the community, the folks that were there that were injured, their lives will never be the same.

[00:27:14] But at times I think things like this, because of this situation, because of these folks who lost their lives, change being made can help a grieving process and can help folks get to a point of feeling like there is something more going on here. And so really tragic situation. But it sounds like we have some good folks behind this and some good movement occurring. Absolutely. And let's just pivot.

[00:27:41] Let me just say that we've had the benefit of a couple days from the interview. This is probably the worst transition we're going to make from good to bad. And we've gone from great examples of what legislators are doing right to now a bad example of what can happen when legislators don't do good. There's certainly a handful of times on this podcast where transitions are tough, and this is one of them. We are going to be moving on to talking about the disturbing situation surrounding a state senator, Republican state senator, Justin Eichhorn.

[00:28:12] He was arrested on Monday for soliciting a teen for paid sex, for prostitution, a minor, a child. He detectives posed as a what he thought to be a 17-year-old girl who then he attempted to meet in person on Monday. Where he was arrested as part of a sting operation. It turns out about six other people were arrested as well.

[00:28:34] Officer searches pickup truck, sees two cell phones, a condom, and $129 in cash, which pertains to the previously discussed amount that he was going to pay for this interaction. We did talk about this in our initial recording. Now things have moved very significantly since. So I think we can walk it through chronologically of what has happened since Monday in the evolution of this really, again, disturbing.

[00:29:04] I know we talked about it before. It's just gross. It's just gross, right? It's just a situation where this is a child, legally defined as a child, a person under the age of 18 who he was communing with knowingly knowing that she was under 18. And as we've seen things come out, he knew some lingo. He knew some shorthand.

[00:29:28] It's really questionable of his involvement in this kind of world in general. Maybe we'll find out more. Maybe we will not. It should be noted that he is serving his third term. He represents the Grand Rapids area. He's married with four children. And as we walk through this, I think we both stand together and sending our thoughts and prayers to his wife and his children who certainly do not deserve to have to go through something as horrific as this.

[00:29:56] And it's really upsetting and sad. It is. It is really bad. And with the benefit of a couple days, but we're not, we're updating our audio. One of the things that you and I noted on the podcast when we recorded this a couple, a day or so ago was that the information that came out would likely get worse. And it has. We are learning the details of the, some of the tax exchanges, some of the communications he was having with this undercover police officer, representative of the Bloomington Police Department.

[00:30:26] It is bad. It is as bad as you think. And I don't want to speak for you, but I think the point that I think you and I are, I think others are coming to is that there seems to be, he seemed to have a comfort level in knowing what to say, meaning he may possibly have done this before. And that's what I was left with too. Again, these are allegations and he has an opportunity for his day in court.

[00:30:50] But it seemed to me as I read that and was reading the footnotes of the federal criminal complaint that there was at least a perception by law enforcement and those that were involved in the charging document that he may have, he had some familiarity with some lingo and some phrases that made it clear that this may not have been his first time. And that is just appalling.

[00:31:14] Because what I think about in that situation is this, again, this was a sting operation. There was not an individual on the other side. What that hit what after reading that criminal complaint, it has raised in my mind, the possibility that there, he had may have done this before with someone. And that is just horrific to think about. It's just horrific to think about.

[00:31:41] And again, to just to share the story that I noted before in the previous recording, which was I was with a former colleague of Senator Eichhorn's When This Story Break. I was having lunch with this individual and a couple other people. And this person was visibly shaken at the table. They had served with Senator Eichhorn. They were just, it just took the air out of the room. And there was just a level of sickness.

[00:32:07] And it was just nauseating to think about someone that this individual actually knew and would engage in this type of activity. It is such an emotionally gut-punching situation to understand on so many levels. And you rightfully pointed out, and very thoughtfully, that there are some innocent people in this. And those are his family. And my thoughts or prayers are with his family during this time because they're going to need a lot of help to get through this.

[00:32:35] But it's also the reality is that people like him and others like him are just so freely a part of society. And it has to be a wake-up call for this type of activity, how prevalent it is that someone who is a legislator, someone who is a very conservative legislator, is out there having this type of, is doing these types of things. It is just appalling.

[00:33:03] Like, since the time when this story broke, I have fathers of this age. And we had to have a very difficult conversation just about the news and this experience and what's going on. And I just have to say, you don't have to be a father. You don't have to be anyone's, you don't have to have any experience or have relatives or friends or anyone in this age group to understand this is sick.

[00:33:28] And someone who does this type of activity needs to be behind bars. But as a father, as someone of this age, it was a really just appalling conversation and just a sick, just a tough conversation to have. And so it's just tough. Yeah, absolutely. We have found out that he communicated or reached out to, from what we understand, the detectives or undercover agents had placed an ad online. And that's how he got in touch.

[00:33:58] He reached out, it looks like a half dozen times over a period of three or four days before the back and forth happened. I saw, actually, DFL researcher Darwin, who we've had on before, posted that the fact that gaveled out on Monday was 5.17 p.m. And he was arrested in Bloomington at 5.46, 29 minutes later.

[00:34:20] And if you know anything about driving from the Capitol to Bloomington, it's, you needily, he walked straight to his car from that gavel, from the Senate floor. The mindset that a person has to be to do this in general when you're, regardless of your career or your path or whoever you are in life is just horrific.

[00:34:38] But that he went from, I just, I can't, we look at our legislators as folks who, or I want to still believe they are people who should be role models, should be people that are held to a high standard, should be held to, they create laws, not break laws. And it's just, as more and more comes out, it gets, as you said, more and more disturbing. And so we will get to where we are today. But walking through this of how it happened when it came out. So again, this was Monday evening.

[00:35:06] Tuesday, we started seeing reactions coming out from legislators from the caucus, from different party units. So I want to walk through some of these because I think there's some stuff to chat about here. Absolutely got to give the Senate GOP caucus some credit here. They were very quick, I think within an hour or so, called for an immediate resignation. They said, we are shocked by these reports and this alleged conduct demands an immediate resignation. Justin has a difficult road ahead and he needs to focus on his family.

[00:35:33] House leadership, Speaker Damath and Leader Niska released a statement saying, given the seriousness of the charges, Eichhorn should resign. While he's entitled to due process, we must hold legislators to a higher standard. And M&GOP chair Alex Plekish tweeted or posted, as Republicans, we hold elected officials to a higher standard. While Senator Eichhorn, again, is entitled to due process, the seriousness of these charges warrants his resignation. Public trust and accountability must come first.

[00:36:01] So starting on the Republican side, thoughts. Were you surprised with how quickly and vehemently the Senate GOP caucus came out? Because we, as much as we don't want to talk about the politics of politics, there's obviously, that's what we talk about. You and I here, we know it's a part of this. So there are certainly conversations that need to be had. I think it's incredible. Your thoughts? I think it was absolutely incredible.

[00:36:28] I think you and I both know from historical context that there's a sliding scale in this stuff. Legislators, the citizen legislature, legislators are human beings and they make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. And so you have situations where legislators have legal disputes, criminal activity that sometimes happen. We've seen a fair number of, I think, a proportional amount of DWIs in relation to the rest of the state and other types of issues.

[00:36:54] And so when those types of matters happen, it's usually there's some type of penalty, meaning they maybe get removed from committees as they're going through this. There is the possibility of an ethics matter or other types of things, but there is a little bit of a history of the legislature dealing with this type of stuff. I was surprised and impressed at how quickly the Senate Republican caucus came out and said, he's got to go. There was no equivocation from that standpoint.

[00:37:23] They just were out right away. And I think that was impressive. I think it was the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do morally. It was the right thing to do from a leadership perspective. It was also the right thing to do politically. It was the right thing to do. And so I think, you know, sometimes we get into and we'll discuss maybe some other examples of where sometimes the politics doesn't align with what's the right thing to do. But I want to give full credit to the Senate Republican caucus for coming out with so as a strong manner, which they did.

[00:37:52] And then also to the House Republicans for coming out the way that they did. That is, they didn't have to weigh in. There's the House and there's the Senate. And the House weighed in very swiftly, too, with the statement. And that was impressive. Very impressive. Completely agree. I think that it is, again, we've been talking for months and months about the close ties, the actual ties, and then the close counts in both the House and the Senate.

[00:38:19] Prior to this, the DFL, since the special election was up by 1, 34, 33. It's certainly something that it would be maybe disappointing, but not surprising if they didn't call for a resignation because of the politics of it. However, again, putting our comms hat on our PR side.

[00:38:39] The optics of that would then lead to this being a part of every, if there were any votes where ICOIN was a final deciding vote or an important vote or any. It really takes the wind out of the sails of every positive thing Republicans in the Senate are doing because it would be tied to there. Rightfully, whether that's Democrats doing it or the press doing that. I applaud this, commend this. I think it is great that they took action.

[00:39:06] And subsequently, we're willing to go even further, right? We'll get to that next. I want to turn to the DFL side and kind of chat through what we saw from the Democrats before we get to what came since Tuesday. Minnesota DFL had what I think is a really great statement. They said, No one who solicits children belongs anywhere near public office or the state capitol. The facts presented by the Bloomington Police Department make it clear that Senator Eichhorn is an immediate danger to the public and must resign immediately.

[00:39:36] Then we have the Senate Majority Leader, Aaron Murphy, who said, The felony allegation against Senator Eichhorn is deeply disturbing and raises serious questions that will need to be answered by the court as well as his caucus and constituents. The only one of these five groups of individuals or parties that did not call for the resignation of Senator Eichhorn is the Senate DFL caucus and the Senate Majority Leader, Aaron Murphy.

[00:40:01] I mean, that is what we can shorthand is the COA, right? I can't look at this statement and not think it's just her covering her own butt for the whole Mitchell, Nicole Mitchell felony charges situation, maybe being afraid of being called a hypocrite for calling for resignation of one versus the other. But that's where I want to go back to that Minnesota DFL statement, because I think by their phrasing of saying it, I'm going to send this to Darwin.

[00:40:30] I'm giving him all sorts of props today. But by their statement of saying the police department makes it clear that he's an immediate danger to the public and must resign immediately, that to me is where we get the apples and oranges between the Mitchell and Eichhorn situation. A felony is a felony. Sure. But when we look at the Mitchell situation, that was a personal dispute with her stepmom, with her family. Do I think she should resign? Absolutely. We've talked about that countless times.

[00:40:57] But this is something, again, it goes back to it does look like he is a danger and a risk to the public, that this does look like it's not the first time that it's happened, that we do not know what would happen if he was re-released and had access to his phone and Internet and did not resign and was able to participate. I think that's the argument that I would like to make if I was a majority leader. I think it was a pretty weak statement by Aaron Murphy.

[00:41:21] And then we see some DFLers coming out between now and then going around her saying he needs to resign. I don't understand. Explain to me. Do you understand where she was coming from with this? I have a perspective on it. Perspective on it. Let me say, I think both the Minnesota GOP and the DFL party did a great job. Now, again, the GOP could have stayed out of this, but they chimed in, too. And so my compliments to the GOP for also weighing in and being on message about this issue.

[00:41:50] And again, I know for the public that's listening and people who aren't in politics, this should be just pro forma. It should be done right away. But the bottom line is the Republican Party could have decided to stay out of this. And they didn't. And they issued a very clear, definitive statement that amplified what the Senate and the House were doing. And in this political environment, they could have made a different choice, but they didn't. The bottom line is they went out there and amplified what the Senate Republicans led with and the House Republicans chimed in on.

[00:42:19] And I think that was good on the side of the state party. I think the DFL did a fantastic job. I think that message that they sent out is exactly what needed to be done. And it shows a level of just, I think, common sense that this guy needs to go. When we get to Senator Murphy, yeah, it's a challenge to me because I think that this is where, and I would say this before, consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind. Someone smart once said that. And so this is where you're trying to be consistent to a point.

[00:42:48] And if your consistency is everyone is afforded the opportunity of an innocent until proven guilty, there's a due process that they're afforded. I get that. I get that. I got to tell you something. When you're an elected official and you get caught in a sting operation trying to have sex with a child, trying to rape a child, trying to engage in a legal activity with the child. And that's what it is. This wasn't this independent of him paying for it. This would have been rape. And I don't.

[00:43:16] And that's just the reality of it. There's this is a horrific situation. And to think that that we can't make the intellectual decision that there's a difference between the two, I think is just appalling. And we're afraid to speak up because we're worried about precedent in leading to Mitchell. Let me just say something to you. You and I have talked multiple episodes about Senator Mitchell and gone into that case.

[00:43:42] I can make the case to you that going in late at night, dressed in black, breaking into a home with a crowbar now is a situation that doesn't end well. If there's a confrontation that absolutely could have turned into some type of violent situation. And thankfully it didn't. And there's no evidence that I'm aware of in the criminal complaint that it was about to happen. But when you break into someone's house with a crowbar, that's a dame that can be a very dangerous situation.

[00:44:11] Irregardless of what your motives are and what you're there to collect. That I accept all that being said. Someone leaving someone trying as a 40 year old man attempting to engage in this type of activity, illegal criminal activity, rape of a child. That's I'm sorry. I put that on a different level. I put that on a different level.

[00:44:32] And I think that the Senate Democrats only had a complication with themselves that in the fact that they didn't immediately call for his resignation. It was that is I will tell you that is the easiest vote that they'll take in the Minnesota Senate. Read that criminal complaint. The easiest vote you will have is to vote to expel him. And the fact that you couldn't come out and say that because potentially you're concerned about a boomerang effect on Senator Mitchell.

[00:45:02] That's where we're at these days. Like we can't speak. We can't just take the we just can't take the position like, OK, if you're going to rape a child, if you're going to engage in that type of criminal activity and prostitution. We can't speak out on that and we can't issue a clear definitive statement as a caucus and support the removal and expulsion of that person because we're about a boomerang effect. That's where I think politics. That's where I think.

[00:45:29] And any politician who is trying to make is trying to balance those two things, they've already lost. Yeah, because there's one. The easiest thing to do is just to say he needs to go. And we did see again, even before the DFL cause made any further statements on it, Senate GOP came out Wednesday evening and said that they were exploring expulsion of I-Corin if he didn't resign.

[00:45:54] It sounds like they met as a caucus and I don't know if it was unanimous or near unanimous, but enough of the caucus agreed to get those that get that situation in order should that need to proceed. And they were ready to proceed with that on Thursday morning. Then the Senate DFL shared on Thursday that they would join in expelling I-Corin if he did not resign. Two thirds vote is needed to do so. Obviously, the GOP could not do it on their own. So that was welcomed that they came out on Thursday.

[00:46:23] But again, this was 36, 48 hours after that initial comment from Rep Murphy or Senator Murphy. I'm sorry. And then on Thursday, we also get I-Corin did send a letter to Governor Tim Walz, ceasing leadership, said only that he was resigning immediately and, quote, I must focus on personal matters at this time. It has been an honor to serve in the Minnesota Senate. As we talked about it the other day, I don't think either of us are surprised that he resigned. I think we were expecting that to happen.

[00:46:54] I'm glad it went down that way. We've had their, in modern history and as far back as I think the Senate history books go so far, it does not look like there was any situation where a member has been expelled. We have had different situations where both due to sexual misconduct of sort or allegations of sexual misconduct in recent years,

[00:47:16] where members of Senator and Representative both sides of the aisle also have stepped down, have resigned because of the allegations against them. This, I think, is just so it is not surprising that we got there. That is where we are today. And we have some more kind of reactions and quotes that I want to get to. But before we do that, you, again, not surprised. He resigned. He's done. Yes, he resigned.

[00:47:43] And I want to draw attention to a commentary about, and we can talk about this more, but the Minnesota reformer Patrick Hulikin did a very top-notch commentary, which I'll link in this story, talking about how the Senate Republicans led on this situation. And again, Senator Eichhorn did resign today. But I think we just need to pause for a second and say that what the Senate Republicans were prepared to do today was historic.

[00:48:10] There has never been an expulsion of a member of the Minnesota Senate, I believe, in state history. And the Senate Republicans, from the beginning, took, there was no, there was zero, zero, zero communications that came out from that caucus that was soft, that didn't have, that didn't in any way not address the seriousness of the issue. They led from the beginning.

[00:48:36] And coming to the Senate today with the caucus, Senator Eichhorn's own caucus prepared to expel him, something that's never been done before, I think was a true leadership test of the Senate Republicans. And I think that they passed. With, in a horrible situation, you can pass with flying colors in a good situation, and bad. And the Senate Republicans, in contrast, I think to the Senate DFL,

[00:49:03] I think that they showed tremendous leadership through this horrible ordeal. And it's the exact type of issue that I think the public will see that type of contrast. And I think that the leadership of the Senate Republican caucus handled this horrific situation with true leadership. Absolutely. Two more quotes from Senate Minority Leader Republican Mark Johnson. He said this charge, the charge that he's been accused of is so severe, and the transcript based on reports are very damning.

[00:49:32] And so even though that has not been done, expulsion has not been done on the House floor before, we felt the charges warranted that. Today we are praying for the victim, or the family of the victims of this and this situation. It's a really sad thing. And then he goes on to talk about, there's a line in this, this is the line in the sand. If you're accused of a felony, I think that's serious enough. Our law has distinguished that as a very serious crime. This clearly is a very serious crime. And so we're going to do the right thing as a caucus and move forward in a decisive way.

[00:49:59] I do think we had a little zing towards the Mitchell case here. But still, the leadership on this is there, is ready to go. They saw the facts of the matter. They saw the charging documents. It is very damning. And a line in the sand is necessary at times. And saying that soliciting a minor for sex, or as you said before, going with the intention of raping a child, needs to be a line in the sand. It should not be a very tough line to draw there. Yes.

[00:50:29] And the one thing to note that, Singer, there was one senator, aside from Senator Eichhorn, who was not there today. Senator Mitchell was not in the Senate chamber today. Oh, interesting. I didn't catch that one. Yes. Senator Mitchell was not there that day. Well, that is, I'm sure, just a coincidence. Yes. We did have a follow-up statement from Senate Majority Leader Murphy, where he came out very strong this morning ahead of a potential expulsion vote,

[00:50:59] saying an expulsion vote would have demonstrated, I think, our shared commitment across this chamber that predatory behavior of Mr. Eichhorn was incompatible with the service of this body. Republicans and Democrats came together to recognize the threat of that predatory behavior, and we were ready to act. She hitched that to that bandwagon that was already moving far down the tracks by the Senate Republican leadership, and was really just hitching her wagon to that, huh? A good idea has many fathers. A bad idea is an orphan.

[00:51:26] And so I think that she quickly saw the leadership of the Senate Republican caucus in leading on this. And again, I can't believe that we have to have this conversation in some ways, because I think that, and I think it's important for us to just understand how, because one of the things we're doing is we're breaking down these situations. The Senate Republicans, there have been allegations against elected officials, criminal charges since state history.

[00:51:55] And the fact that they came to the chamber today ready to do something that had never been done, I think is incredibly impressive and a show of true leadership. There's, this is not a, this is a 99-1 issue. And the only one people that would be supportive of it is if they polled people in jail or defense attorneys. This is simply a no-brainer. It's not complicated.

[00:52:19] And the fact that we can, that there's, that the Senate Republicans led that way on this issue, I think they should be applauded for. Even in, I understand that people will say, this is what they should have done. No, I understand that. There's a lot of things that we raise concerns about when people do things, don't do things the right way. And the response from the Senate Republican caucus, the leadership, the other senators and the staff from a comms, PR messaging, and just a pure leadership standpoint, an absolute A plus.

[00:52:48] Yep. Last thing I want to quote here is Senator Erin McQuade. Following the potential expulsion vote that didn't need to happen and the resignation, she was met by press, as a lot of the senators, obviously, press was waiting for all of them outside of the Senate chambers. It should be noted that she was standing right next to the Senate Majority Leader when she made these comments. She said, and I quote,

[00:53:42] And then following up, Senate GOP leaders or spokesperson said, they're not going to dignify those remarks. Not the time and place, for one, I think. And I literally read this, saw this clip and said she's running, right? She's being considered or considering running for CD2 if Angie Craig's running for U.S. Senate. But first of all, yes. Is he a Republican? Absolutely. Are there issues within the Republican Party and sexual predators and harassment and assault?

[00:54:12] Yes. Is it true across the aisle? Yes. Is this something that, I mean, we just, it just, to me, this is just like a roll my eyes. Of course, we're going to get this. I think it's a little too soon to go there. I think we need to focus on this situation, this individual, the facts of this matter, and potential victims in this case. What did you think when you heard of this? Well, first of all, I would say this. We've interviewed Senator Erin McQuade before.

[00:54:38] She, and she was the DFL-endorsed candidate for lieutenant governor. She ran with then-state representative Erin Murphy. So they were, they were a ticket in 2018. They were endorsed by the DFL party. So there's a good close working relationship between the two of them. I want to just say at the onset that, again, Senator Erin McQuade came out, and I think she was one of the first legislators that I saw give a statement saying that Senator Eichhorn needed to go. So I applaud her for doing that.

[00:55:07] I think that, I think what, I understand the point she's trying to make, and I would just argue it's about timing. I think that it's about timing, and I'm not trying to go through, but I think there is, there's enough examples that we could provide. I think of misbehavior, illegal activity, criminal behavior, these types of actions that happen on both sides of the aisle. This is, sadly, this is truly a bipartisan issue.

[00:55:37] And I think that, I understand what I would view, if I was breaking down what she said, I think she was attempting to do a little cleanup. I think she was trying to do a little cleanup on aisle seven for the fact that the Senate Republican Caucus led from the beginning with clarity on an issue. They were tested both morally and from a leadership perspective, and they handled this in a great way.

[00:56:01] And in the aftermath of what happened, I think there is a lot of questions right now as to why the Senate, and I've heard that from Republicans and Democrats that I've spoken with. What in the hell was the Senate DFL doing? And so in the aftermath where I think that they miscalculated how this was going to go, I think that Senator Herman Quaid comes out and she does a little cleanup. And she is, she is sharp. She is an absolute star on the side of the DFL.

[00:56:30] She is very good at messaging. And she came out and she just lobbed it. And I think in some ways it was done to, as a, to way to put it back on the Republicans, because I sincerely believe, and she may disagree, but I know that she may disagree about this reality. But I know my reality is that I've spoken with Democrats and Republicans since this situation broke with Senator Eichhorn.

[00:56:55] And there has been nothing but consistent puzzlement by the fact that the Senate DFL did not come out definitively and say he needed to go. I even went out on social media and said, you don't have to connect the two. You can have, you can have your position on Senator Mitchell, but can we at least just have the position that someone accused of these crimes doesn't have any place in the legislature? Doesn't have any place in the Minnesota Senate.

[00:57:23] And the bottom line is the Minnesota Senate Republicans took the point right away. They were concerned right away. He needs to resign. And then the resignation discussion, they needs to resign, move pretty quickly to we're going to expel him. And they came to the, they came to the Senate today, ready to expel him from the time this story broke, which broke on Tuesday around 1231, around 1230 ish.

[00:57:50] Less than 48 hours later, Eichhorn's out of the Senate. And part of the reason he's out of the Senate, I think one of the reasons, one of the main reasons he's out of the Senate is because of the leadership of the Senate Republican caucus and saying there's a line in the sand and this is where we're drawing it.

[00:58:05] And I don't know, I understand, I don't know what the Senate DFL was thinking about why they just couldn't make that clear point because I think the bottom line is the only thing I'm left with is that they were concerned about pushback on Senator Mitchell and the fact that Senator Mitchell wasn't there today. And we have this very strong messaging from Senator Aramay Quaid, which I honestly would say that there is a place for that type of commentary and rhetoric.

[00:58:33] I don't know right after the, right on the, in the aftermath of their caucus in a unified way, their caucus leadership in a unified way, not taking the position that they did on Senator Mitchell. I don't know if that's the right time to do it, but it certainly is a good defensive move.

[00:58:50] And I think that that statement was made from a defensive statement was made in a sense of do doing some cleanup on an issue that I think Republicans, Democrats and like-minded independents agree that the Senate DFL failed on. Fair point.

[00:59:34] His federal charges attempted coercion enticement of a minor if he is convicted, if this is 10-year mandatory minimum sentence. So that will be going on. His next court date is, or his preliminary hearing is scheduled for March 26th. He was released on his personal recognizance pending availability of a halfway house bed, according to Fox 9. He told the judge he understood allegations against him and reviewed the criminal complaint with his attorney.

[01:00:01] He does have a public defender currently in the process of self-hiring a private attorney. But it sounds like he will be remained at the halfway house until his case is resolved. Being monitored by GPS device. He is not allowed to have unsupervised contact with children. Had to turn over his passport. Not able to travel outside of Minnesota. Has to submit a DNA sample. Not allowed to have any online access without prior approval.

[01:00:25] Well, that's a whole lot of them saying, we don't trust you and we don't believe you're going to do the right thing if we let you go. If we're going to be six, just a week away, we will certainly be following that. This will trigger a special election. Again, likely if it's called very late in the session. We had a full Senate chamber for about a week. Yep. Let me just say a couple points.

[01:00:49] I've mentioned before in this book, I wrote in this podcast, I wrote a book about the disappearance of a couple of missing kids. And when I did some work for the Star Tribune, but then later wrote a book. I've met, I've had a lot of contacts with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and Law Enforcement and the Jacob Weyerling Foundation. I'm going to say to you, and also having, I have just a rudimentary, but I think a fairly good understanding of the kind of legal issues that he's facing. This guy has a tough road ahead of him.

[01:01:18] This is going to be a very difficult time for him. This is not, I don't think anyone ever wants to get charged with a crime. This is not the type of crime because the criminal justice system is hard. And in this particular situation, it needs to be. He is going to have a lot of restrictions on him and life as he knows it is over.

[01:01:40] And these are, again, I said this on our original recording, but I just want to say it again as we transition out of this topic is behind this, in this situation, there was a law enforcement officer. There were as a number of, this is a pretty big investigation and a lot of effort went into catching a Senate, former Senator Eichhorn and the other people involved.

[01:02:02] We owe a debt of gratitude to law enforcement, to keeping our community safe, and to those at the FBI and at the Bloomington Police Department, at the United States Attorney's Office, at the Hennepin County Attorney's Office. My compliments to all of you for this investigation and the work that you did. And these types of crimes in particularly involving children and involving minors. I know from just my experience in talking with law enforcement officers, this really takes a toll.

[01:02:31] There is an ugly side to this that the public will probably never see. And there are human beings behind here that are trying to prosecute these crimes. And I think it's worth noting, I think as we I just wanted to make a point just to say that my compliments and my utmost appreciation to everyone who was involved from the law enforcement side, the investigation side and those prosecuting this case, all their work to keeping our streets and our community safe.

[01:02:59] Ditto. I absolutely agree. I think it's an important note to make. And while we are not a true crime podcast, this is going to be yet. We'll certainly be following this case and how it goes, how it proceeds in court, the special election and names of folks that might be coming out and being in consideration or considering running for the seat. A couple already maybe visiting up at the Capitol, but it is disturbing.

[01:03:26] It is gross and we'll be keeping our eyes on it. One interesting note is because the legislative session is going on, the turnaround time for a special session will be quick. You can't have a vacancy. You can't have a legislative vacancy during a legislative session. And so the time the turnaround time will be much quicker. This the special election will need to occur before the end of the legislative session. And so the turnaround time will be much quicker.

[01:03:53] And so we will have a new state senator from this district before the end of the legislative session. There you go. And so we'll be very curious to see on the timing of when that is, but they have to move very quick. Perfect. Good to know. Coming in with the expertise. Becky, I want to thank you for your patience this week on some of the technical issues we had.

[01:04:14] But again, my compliments to Riverside. This isn't a paid promotion again, but my compliments to Riverside for helping out and to Representative Larry Kraft for his patience in us getting this episode out. I want to thank all of you for listening to this episode of The Breakdown with Broad Corbin Becky. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a view on Apple Podcasts or on the platform where you listen. You can also follow us on our website and across all social media platforms at BB Breakpod.

[01:04:40] The Breakdown with Broad Corbin Becky will return next week. Thank you so much for joining us. Bye.