A break down with Jim Mortenson, executive director of Law Enforcement Labor Services

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherr. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. We are back today after a rare week off, and today's episode marks a new milestone for the podcast.

[00:00:25] We are kicking off season three of The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky. We could not be more excited to continue chatting with our guests and each other about important topics to the political and policy arena.

[00:00:36] In the past two seasons, we have had the opportunity to talk to so many incredible individuals with unique stories and different backgrounds and discuss issues that are important in Minnesota and around the country. Today's episode will follow that theme.

[00:00:48] We are joined today by Jim Mortenson, who is the executive director of the Law Enforcement Labor Services. This organization is the largest public safety union in the state of Minnesota. They represent 5,551 licensed peace officers, 1582 non-licensed corrections, 911 dispatchers, firefighters and public safety administrative support personnel, 269 agencies and 480 local

[00:01:12] unions across the state. They aim to negotiate labor contracts, provide effective legal representation, and improve working conditions for their members. Jim is a native Minnesotan who spent 32 years in law enforcement. He joined the St. Cloud Police Department in 1990, retiring at the rank of lieutenant.

[00:01:30] With Jim we are going to break down the recent attack on first responders in Burnsville, where two officers and a paramedic were killed in the line of duty protecting their community. We will discuss the fund his organization has put together and is running to benefit

[00:01:43] the families of the three men who made the ultimate sacrifice. Then we will break down the recent report highlighting the rise in attacks on police officers. After our interview, Michael and I will break down the recent ruble call in the

[00:01:53] presidential race that used an AI generated voice of President Joe Biden and the ties that call has to Minnesota. We will get into who Dean Phillips said he would be interested in having on his ticket and we will end by breaking down the South Carolina primary.

[00:02:08] Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. So Michael. Season three. We are still here. We are still here. By the way, I am amazed of a lot of things that you have been, I've seen you do on this podcast.

[00:02:23] Your ability to read the intros that quickly and with the fewest number of takes is simply astounding. So just so we're clear, if I have to do the we try to alternate the intros.

[00:02:35] If I do the intro, I do it privately because I get all nervous because I can't read it without doing them. You can do it in one take. You know, again, I later on in the show, I talk about Congressman Emmerthorpeck.

[00:02:47] We used to call him one take Tommy because he was so good at getting a script of video done in one takes. Apparently I take after him. I don't know where it comes from, but the fast speaking is just innate. My mom always tells me to slow down.

[00:03:00] Maybe I need to do that a little bit more, but hey, we're getting there. I don't know how you do it. It's and we were off last week. Did you have a nice week? I did. Life is busy. Work is busy.

[00:03:10] The kiddo we've had that was a special shout out to Carl Kool who hates when I say kiddo, but we've had ear infections. We're teething, getting molars. He's had a cold. It has just been a disastrous month of sleep.

[00:03:23] Last night I did get six consecutive hours of sleep, so I'm feeling great today and excited to be back. Did your husband get a good night of sleep too? Always. That's great. There's got to be, as I said before, it's good that you're getting sleep, but there

[00:03:38] just always has to be someone getting that good sleep just in case an emergency happens. Exactly. If someone's fully rested and is able to just jump to help out. I'm glad I missed you last week. It's interesting having a week off because we haven't had much time off.

[00:03:52] I know. This is, I think we've only had a couple other weeks off. I think one of them was after you got hit by a car, so it is a rarity. How was your week off? I had a great week off. Did some work.

[00:04:02] I wanted to share one kind of very interesting political story and it was really surprising to me. As I mentioned before, I grew up in a very apolitical household. Neither of my parents were very political in any type of way.

[00:04:14] I saw my mother this past weekend and she was explaining to me, we were talking about the presidential race. We were talking about the Super Bowl ads. We were talking about the RFK Kennedy ad.

[00:04:25] I of course shared with her my story that I saw RFK naked in a, I shared the story that I saw RFK naked in a locker room in St. Louis Park. I've shared that story before in the podcast.

[00:04:37] She shared a story with me about a Kennedy that I did not know, which is that my mom saw John F. Kennedy when he came to St. Paul. She suggested, my goodness, fantastic Becky. Absolutely. There's the poll quote right there. Yes, my mother saw John F. Kennedy.

[00:04:55] Holy buckets. It's hot in here. My goodness, gracious. Becky, that was, that's top shot. Yes, my mother. Oh my goodness, my poor mother. She's going to hear this and she's just going to, I'm just, what? Is it hot? No, it's so sorry Mrs. Delcourt. That was so funny.

[00:05:14] My goodness, that was so funny. Yes, my mother saw John F. Kennedy. Yes, she saw him clothed. She saw him at the St. Paul Hotel when he came in town in October 1960. I'd never heard that story before.

[00:05:25] So my mom was going to St. Kate's Kennedy of course as a Catholic and there was a contingent of some Catholic college students that went over to St. Kate's and visit. I do believe he was fully clothed but it was just, it was a nice moment that

[00:05:38] I now just have to probably clarify with my mom that there was no nudity involved. But no, it was wonderful to have that kind of conversation. You can imagine when I was telling the story about RFK which my mom, I don't know if she ever heard it before.

[00:05:51] She was very confused as I was telling her, wait a second, you saw RFK Jr. naked in a locker room. I said, yeah, I described this scenario. Once I explained it to her it made complete sense but there was a little bit of shock

[00:06:03] value in her hearing that story. The cliff notes at first but I will clarify for next week's episode as to whether my mom met John F. Kennedy who was United States Senator at the time, whether both she and the then Senator former president were fully clothed.

[00:06:18] Wow we really got off the rails. I apologize and it's a broad court but that was a good story that you recently heard. And nothing like you sulling that story by adding the possibility of my mother being nude during the story Becky. That was hands down.

[00:06:33] I'm so glad we were recording. I was not questioning her clothing levels, it was more about the Kennedys. Yeah, because in the story that I told, I was fully clothed but he was and it wouldn't

[00:06:44] we're not going to disparage the Kennedy family by name but would not be surprising if maybe one of them but my hope would be that when John F. Kennedy came to Minnesota and spoke at the St. Paul Hotel which my son was able to find the remarks

[00:06:58] because he was with me, found the remarks and they seem to be remarks that he would have given fully clothed. But yes I'll make sure to clarify that. We'll figure it out. Before we get into our guests for the day I do also want to make a pitch.

[00:07:11] Have you ever read the book The Kennedy Curse? Yes. It is fantastic to go in from Irish potato famine through plane crashes and car crashes and deaths and I highly recommend if you haven't consumed that go do it.

[00:07:25] I gotta be honest with you, I really haven't pivoted from mom being naked. No I'm so sorry. So I just gotta say I'm sorry that I don't I'm usually good at my feet. Yeah. But man that one that's just an A plus joke. Well.

[00:07:37] At my mom's expense and at the Kennedy family's expense which I know my mom will appreciate. Nothing like starting off season three by nudity jokes. We'll hope to keep you entertained throughout season three.

[00:07:46] Yes and you got a big now you have a big start for season four you gotta come up with something great. I will do my best. Now we are going to move into a totally different type of conversation.

[00:08:00] So we are pleased to welcome today Jim Mortensen the executive director of the law enforcement labor services and we will chat with him about Burnsville, his time in the police department and how we can support the families of the three first responders who were killed.

[00:08:20] We are joined today by Jim Mortensen with the law enforcement labor services. Jim before we get started on the unfortunate story and recent tragedy of why we are chatting with you today I want to hear a little bit about you and the lot more about the law

[00:08:36] enforcement labor services. So can you chat a little bit before you joined up over as executive director you spent 32 years in law enforcement largely with the St. Cloud Police Department if you could share a little bit about your background and your time in law enforcement.

[00:08:50] I did yeah I'd be happy to thank you for the invite today. I did 32 years in law enforcement as a police officer. I grew up on the Iron Range in Minnesota started out my law enforcement career there.

[00:09:02] I did my first three years in Atasca County for a few different smaller police departments and then in 1990 I went down to St. Cloud PD where I retired out with 29 years there at the rank of lieutenant.

[00:09:16] And now as executive director of the law enforcement labor services can you explain a little bit about what your organization does and how it supports the thousands and thousands of officers first responders and agencies and unions that throughout Minnesota. Sure yeah we're Minnesota's largest public safety labor union.

[00:09:36] We represent police fire dispatch corrections and public safety support staff. We have a little over 7100 members literally in all four corners of the state and we represent of those 7100 members they are employed by approximately 300 different agencies throughout the state.

[00:09:59] And we're literally at the Canadian border and the Iowa border and Wisconsin border in the Dakota border so literally all four corners of the state. What we do for them as we go and represent them for their employment contracts wages

[00:10:13] benefits terms and conditions of employment all of those 7100 members we have about 500 different bargaining units that we represent. And we wanted to the reason we have you here today to chat a little bit through the recent

[00:10:28] tragedy that we saw in Burnsville two police officers lost their life a paramedic firefighter lost his life responding as you do to service calls to to help protect and serve your communities.

[00:10:41] Can you speak a little bit to a little bit to how your organization is involved in this recent tragedy and helping benefit the friends and family of those who lost their life. So of those 500 bargaining units that I mentioned previously two of those are with

[00:10:58] the city of Burnsville. We represent the officers and the sergeants there for the police department. And so we reached out to our individuals at work there. One of them happens to be on our board of directors here at LLS.

[00:11:14] And we said this is going to get some national attention on this. There's going to be a lot of people wanting to come out of the woodwork and donate. We've had a lot of problems with people starting GoFundMe accounts and that they're being a scam.

[00:11:29] Plus GoFundMe ends up taking a fairly significant cut out of it. We already have had our benevolent fund in place for several years now. LLS general is a public safety labor union. But a component of that is our LLS benevolent fund, which is a 501C3.

[00:11:51] So we have set that up through the proper channels of being a charitable organization. So we're able to take those donations in. It basically comes into our office and then we provide those funds out to the families of those that were involved.

[00:12:06] Jim, we want to make sure from the beginning that we make sure to reference that website. We're going to do it a couple of times in this program. Where let's start off. Where can people go? Where can they donate? Yeah.

[00:12:17] So if you go to LLS, which stands for law enforcement labor services, that once you go on our webpage right at the top ribbon, there's going to be a spot where you can click on it that will say benevolent fund.

[00:12:31] And if you click on that, that brings you right to our donation page. We're going to be mentioning that a couple of times in this episode. And Jim, thank you for being on today and for sharing that information and for the work that you do.

[00:12:43] How is this type of just horrific incident impacting the law enforcement community and their families right now? During my career, I started out in the mid 80s. So I've been around for a long time. We're approaching 40 years now.

[00:12:59] And we just have not had a loss of life in one incident at this level. And when this happened, I was trying to think of when is the last time we've had more than one person killed in a line of duty in an incident?

[00:13:14] And the only thing I could think of was in St. Paul, when that incident happened back in 1994, where two officers were killed during that incident. And I cannot think of a time when there was three killed in one incident.

[00:13:30] This is, in fact, when this all happened, I was down in Florida at the Daytona 500 and I'm watching the evening news and this comes on the Florida evening news. And so this immediately went out nationally because this is just

[00:13:46] extremely uncommon in public safety to have this amount of lives taken in one incident. It is a horrific tragedy, but it is also a reminder of the threats and dangers that law enforcement and first responders deal with on a daily basis. Can you talk about that?

[00:14:06] Just how much this is? It's just a reminder of what in many circumstances they face on a very regular basis. Yeah. When I first started out my career and I worked for a fairly significant size city, I think we're the fifth.

[00:14:23] The fifth largest municipal department in the state. We handled several thousand calls for service on an annual basis. Back in the early nineties, a gun call was a big deal. That's not that we didn't take them. It's not that we didn't have homicides.

[00:14:38] It's not that we didn't have gang issues, but we're at a whole new level nowadays. And I was just looking at it, pulled some stats here from 2023 on the amount of times that police officers have gotten shot. And or killed in the line of duty.

[00:14:55] Just in the last few years, a significant increase in that. And if you go back to 2018, there was about 237 shootings where a police officer was shot. Of that 237, 53 of them were killed in the line of duty. If you fast forward to 2023, we went from 237 officers shot to

[00:15:21] 378 officers shot. So that tells you the uptick that we've had just in that short amount of time. And that, that is something that needs to get under control in our state. Yeah, I remember my dad went to school with Ron Ryan, Ron Ryan senior.

[00:15:39] And so my family was very familiar with Ron Ryan, Jr. And it was a tragic day in August of 1994 when he lost his life and an officer, Timothy Jones, I believe also lost his life. Along with a Kenan unit that also lost, was also killed.

[00:15:56] And so it's, it is, we've not seen something like this. I remember how much time just stopped in 94 when that happened. And to have that level of brutality again, in a more severe way, it's just horrific. And I'm so sorry for what you've experienced, what the family

[00:16:13] members experienced. And I just want to say again, how much as an average, just citizen, how much I appreciate what law, what law enforcement does and what law enforcement and first responders do on a regular basis. I'm not getting into specifics of my past, but there's been a

[00:16:28] couple of times in my life when I've needed first responders there and they've been there and they've been helpful. And there is, there's a risk that you guys, that all of you men and women of law enforcement and first responders

[00:16:40] deal with on a regular daily basis that I think most Minnesotans cannot comprehend. And when this tragedy like this happens, this horrific tragedy, it really reinforces and brings home. And it's just important to acknowledge that. And one thing that's been very unique about this situation,

[00:16:57] we've had firefighters killed in the line of duty, but I'm trying, I can't think of an incident in my almost 40 years where it was at the hands of violence. It's usually either in a structural fire or maybe something cancer related.

[00:17:13] They're struck by a vehicle or some type of equipment failure, but to actually have a firefighter paramedic shot by an armed assailant. That is extremely rare in that profession. Just a reminder for everyone to donate. We're going to be doing this a couple of times in the show.

[00:17:31] It's LELS.org, LELS.org for people to go to that link and to donate to the organization that is supporting the family of the officers and the paramedic first responder that was also killed earlier this month. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jim.

[00:17:49] We appreciate all you do for the first responders community for all of the officers here in Minnesota. Obviously, you do good work making sure that your individuals and unions that you work for are well provided for represented

[00:18:02] have good working conditions and all of the benefits that they need. We're hopeful, optimistic, want to keep our fingers crossed that we don't have another incident like this where we have to talk to you again. But if there is ever anything going on within the Peace and

[00:18:17] Police Office or law enforcement first responder community that you guys would like to come on back and chat, we'd be happy to do so because you do excellent work and we're very grateful that you're heading the charge, leading the charge here

[00:18:29] for this benevolent fund for the victims' families. Yeah, and we've had well over 3,000 individual electronic donations since we started this from all across the country. And right now, the snail mail is starting to roll in. And so we're getting a lot of envelopes every day now too.

[00:18:51] And so there's been a extreme amount of love and support coming from not only the community of Burnsville, but from the state and from nationwide. So we appreciate everybody that's reached out and is willing to help these families out financially. And again, we're accepting donations on their behalf.

[00:19:13] And just go back in. Oh, it's just one last thing I did want to say. This is the official beneficiary account. This is City of Burnsville officials. This is the one they're pointing to as well. So any others out there, like Jim said, we want to make

[00:19:27] sure that there's not any wrongdoing when this comes to it. This is the one. It is and it's sanctioned by all three families as well. Awesome. Jim, we want to talk to you about a study in a minute about the

[00:19:40] increase in violence towards law enforcement over the last years. But is there some is there a message that you can give our listeners about the events of the last eight days and how is there something that we can society needs to acknowledge or learn about what's occurred here?

[00:19:57] Is there a we hit a point where when these tragedies happen and it's been a long time as you noted in a historical context of we haven't had three, but this just seems to be a point where we as a society should pause and just

[00:20:11] acknowledge the significance of what's happened here. Is there something that needs to change? Is there something that you can think of or a message that needs to get across from this just absolutely unimaginable tragedy? It to me, I get asked that question a lot and they're

[00:20:28] like, what can these communities do? And I always pull it up to the 20,000 foot level. This has to come from leadership when I'm talking the federal level, the state level, the county level, the municipal level, throwing public safety workers under the bus.

[00:20:47] And I'm not saying everybody in that every community and city or county does this, but there is way too much going on when they keep throwing them under the bus and villainizing them, demonizing them. Whether anybody likes it or not, society cannot function without public safety.

[00:21:07] And in fact, in any form of government, it's the number one priority is public safety and their budgets and everything. And then it's food and water and those types of things that they have to provide and structural amenities for their citizens, but it starts at that level.

[00:21:25] Politics, that's another part of it. It's we've had enough of being the political football. It's time to be done with that media. I always say, if it bleeds, it reads the unfactual amount of stuff that goes out in the media and the twists on it

[00:21:42] that they put is it's got to stop. When I got into this profession many years ago, it was a noble, very well respected profession. And it was a I enjoyed what I did throughout the vast majority of my career until Ferguson hit.

[00:22:00] And that was really to me was the start of the turning point, right? The media and politics grabbed hold of that situation. And they made I think some terrible errors on how they navigated that. And now you look at fast forward to the Minneapolis incident.

[00:22:19] They're letting police departments burn throwing their throwing the members of that department under the bus when not you can't paint that brush across an entire profession, not only in the city of Minneapolis, but across our entire state, across our entire nation.

[00:22:36] That's what needs to change, in my opinion. Prosecutors, judges, we have absolutely allowed too much of emboldening these criminals to go out and do the acts that they're doing. And if you look at what's going on in Hennepin County right now, how the county attorney in Hennepin is

[00:22:57] handling our day to day criminals compared to how she's handling our police officers in that county. You can't do that. You're letting one out and you're trying to put the other one in jail and it's in the wrong order. No, I would there is a the balance.

[00:23:14] There seems to be a balance that's been tipped here on a number of issues. And I think the level of just it's becoming in some ways just simply out of control. And we've all we've discussed on the podcast here, a number of people who've been victims of crime.

[00:23:32] And it's an issue that we want to discuss and have discussions on. And we hope that we can stay in contact with you and talk about these issues as they continue to go on. Because unfortunately, as much as we would like people to learn

[00:23:45] and there should be some learning, I hope that there does. But there's a pattern to this behavior. And we hope that this will be the situation that will hopefully change the mindset of so many people.

[00:23:55] One of the things we wanted to discuss with you is what we had you here was there's a recent study that came up talking about the rise in attacks against police, especially on domestic calls over the last 10 years. This information was released by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal

[00:24:11] Apprehension talking about the last 10 years in your experience, which overlaps with a lot of that time. What's been your experience in that? Does that match up with what you know to be when you were in law enforcement directly, when you were in a police officer and you were

[00:24:26] serving in that capacity? Have you noticed did you notice that too? And what do you can attribute that to over the last 10 years? It's a good question. Domestics have always been one of our most violent calls we go on.

[00:24:40] I throw at the course of my career is on. I have no idea. Hundreds of them, hundreds upon hundreds of domestic calls. And you're catching people on their worst day and you're catching people at the height of their anger.

[00:25:00] And with that combination, it just it can really turn these calls for servants violent in a quick hurry. You could have the wife calling you because she's getting beat up by the husband. But then when you go to arrest the husband, then you've got

[00:25:16] the wife on your back because they don't want the husband taken away at that was not uncommon when we would make domestic violence arrests. What has caused the most recent uptick? I think it all goes with crime across the board. Everything is going through the roof.

[00:25:34] Our criminal justice system is not holding people accountable anymore. People are getting emboldened and they're just doing things that they wouldn't normally do. And until we start holding them accountable, that's going to be the answer to it. There's a reason we build jails.

[00:25:51] It's not it's not because people were putting people that are innocent in jail. It's actually it's very hard to get any amount of time in jail. You got to that's usually you got to either do something up

[00:26:03] very you got to do something very wrong and it has to be at a certain level. You just don't get thrown in jail for any serious amount of time without either doing a significant crime or a crime of violence.

[00:26:17] As we've been chatting about this report, a couple of stats I just wanted to throw out there was reported assault incidents against officers across Minnesota are up 160 percent from a decade ago and that officers have reported at least thirty four hundred assaults in Minnesota since twenty twenty one,

[00:26:34] which is a 10 percent increase over the previous year. Now that obviously is a goes from biting and hitting to assault with a deadly weapon and so everything. But those numbers, I think when you see it to see that in two years or two

[00:26:49] and a half years, thirty four assaults happened against officers in Minnesota alone. When we look at the nation as a whole, that's just a staggering statistic and it's really unfortunate. And I do really hope that in the near future, we are able to turn this

[00:27:05] around and make it so not only do we have a safer scenario for our first responders, but we can have folks again willing to step up into these dangerous positions because some of that animosity and the larger dynamic that we're faced with is tamped down a little bit.

[00:27:24] You've spent three decades plus in this field. We're grateful for your dedication and sacrifice and service and continuing now to serve your former colleagues and other first responders as very commendable. Thank you for all that you do.

[00:27:38] And like Michael and I have said, we'd love to continue conversations with you better times when we're not having to focus on a tragedy or hopeful that's not the reason we connect again soon. But if you do need anything from us, let us know.

[00:27:51] We'll continue to do what we can to support our first responders. And again, go to LELS.org. That is where the benevolent fun you can find. That information and donate. Thank you very much. I appreciate the invite today and letting you get our message out. Thank you, Jim.

[00:28:12] So we just interviewed Jim Mortensen with LES. They are helping. They have a benevolent fund that's helping to raise money for the families of the two police officers and firefighter who was they were murdered last Sunday, your perspective on the interview.

[00:28:32] We're really grateful for Jim coming on to chat with us and discuss the work that they do on behalf of our first responders during their time of service. And unfortunately, in this case after their brutal murder that happened in Burnsville recently, it is a very tragic situation.

[00:28:51] I think that we've spoken a lot about the larger picture of a lot of arrows aimed at our first responders, at police, the defund the police movement, the issues with prosecutors. There's a whole or prosecution. There's a whole lot going on there.

[00:29:08] But in this particular situation, I think it's important for us to remember that there is a fund that is available. These families tragically lost their brothers, their fathers, their spouses. It is it is just heartbreaking scenario.

[00:29:23] And so I'm so grateful that we have a reputable organization who is working on behalf of these individuals to make sure that any donations coming in are going to the families directly and are able to hopefully make their days forward a little easier after this horrific tragedy.

[00:29:41] Yes, you unfortunately said it well. It's just it's an incredibly difficult time to understand what went on. How it happened is it was unfolding. It just got worse and worse. And I think Jim really laid out a pretty succinct timeline as to where

[00:30:01] particularly things have continued to go bad for law enforcement and law enforcement community. I just will say that of all the things we expect from government is competent, effective law enforcement and the ability to make phone calls, to talk to them, to call for service.

[00:30:21] And what occurred here is just it's just beyond comprehension. It's just monstrous. And my hope is that Jim went through what we can learn, what society can learn from this and I hope that those lessons are taken.

[00:30:35] We're going to continue to remind people to go to LELS.org. L-E-S-L-E-L-S dot org. Did you continue to donate and give that fund? This is again, it was not how we expected to do our first episode of our third season.

[00:30:50] But this is what you do when you're doing a podcast and we're very appreciative for Jim and his organization and for the work that they're doing right now to ease and to provide some bit of comfort to the families and friends

[00:31:03] and relatives of those men that were killed last Sunday. So our thoughts and prayers continue to go with them and their families during this whole process. And we hope to speak with Jim under better circumstances where we can be

[00:31:15] talking more proactively about what can be done and not in the response of such a horrific tragedy. So next up, we are going to talk about our first story of AI interference in the presidential election as background on Sunday, January 21st.

[00:31:35] A political consultant sent out or participated in sending out somewhere between 5,000, 20,000 automated calls that used a computer generated version of President Biden's voice urging people to not participate in the January 23rd, New Hampshire primary. Oof, oof. It gets worse, worse for some.

[00:31:57] There is a Dean Phillips tie here. So apparently this consultant, his name is Steve Kramer. Apparently he was part of the Dean Phillips campaign. He was hired by Phillips campaign to assist in ballad efforts in New York and Pennsylvania.

[00:32:11] His campaign was paid somewhere around $250,000 according to the FEC. And his maybe claim to fame, this Steve Kramer, was a he worked on Kanye's 2020 political presidential campaigns. He's a pretty big wig, obviously. So he was a consultant that worked on Dean Phillips raise. Correct.

[00:32:31] He was not tasked with this assignment from the Phillips campaign. Correct. In fact, Dean Phillips put out a very, I would say, a very well-written, strongly worded apology and acknowledgement of the situation. He said, I'm disgusted that a consultant hired to assist my campaign with ballad

[00:32:48] access is alleged to have faked a robocall impersonating Joe Biden. While I don't know this person, such behavior is despicable and I trust we will be investigated by authorities. It's also despicable that the party actively limits access to state

[00:33:01] ballots and black balls, reputable consultants who would otherwise work with the challengers like me. The corruption in politics is pervasive and must be exposed in an address. So I love the front end of that. Yes.

[00:33:11] We get a little bit into some maybe just it was great messaging for what Dean Phillips campaign is looking to get across here. Phillips says this is not a consultant that he personally knows or works with, but had indeed gotten money from his campaign. Yes.

[00:33:25] And he hired a New Orleans magician. A magician. Yeah. How do you think the magician community feels about this? Why? It's not a good look. I saw the Darwin with the Darwin force and with the Minnesota DFL.

[00:33:36] I think he made a reference to this, noting the reporters that were putting magicians in the headline. I think that adds a little bit of mystery. I don't think credibility. Maybe it does is a does a magician being involved make it seem more. Mysterious.

[00:33:53] What is the magician element at? I don't know. I take it as it just adds a level of ridiculousness to it. I think that I feel like it in my mind, you go on like Craigslist.

[00:34:04] I need a guy who's going to be able to do this and this magician. I'm Jack of all trades. Gotcha. So let's start over. That's how you would do it. You would go on Craigslist and that's how you would say I need a guy.

[00:34:14] That's not what I would say. That was what I had been visioning of the situation that magicians are in the hunt for work on Craigslist. Just start over here. So what's near are you describing? Are you describing the hiring of a?

[00:34:26] Steve Kramer, I think put an ad and says looking for a guy who can fake. That's what he did. I don't know. OK, no, I made that up. But if you were going to think this New Orleans magician, I don't know how these two get connected.

[00:34:40] I'm just trying to connect the dots of some plausible. You went to Craigslist. That's how you think it happened. So you were going to do this. If you were going to do this type of scheme, would you go on Craigslist

[00:34:50] to try that's where you would be your launching point? I'm going to use a Tom Emmer line here. I don't speak in hypotheticals. OK, so we're not going to go in because I am not going to be involved in any generation of any sort of political interference here.

[00:35:04] What I'm surprised about is that an AI was needed because there's so much source material of Biden's voice that they could have used that in some way, but they obviously wanted that special touch that a magician can offer. I immediately think of magician.

[00:35:18] I'm a big fan of modern family. I think it filled on fee. I think he'd be horrified by this this this attack on the good people of our magicians and the illusionist community. But I got to tell you, it adds a kind of unique perspective to it.

[00:35:31] I should note of general concern, let's piggyback to your favorite episode, your favorite guest, Steve Simon. Yes. You guys, Steve Simon, our secretary of state was concerned about this exact thing. Yes, you posed an exact question of asking him about the potential of AI use

[00:35:48] in the upcoming presidential and down ballot campaigns. And this is exactly it. This is really concerning that they said this magician was apparently then doing interviews after the fact, said that it took less than 30 minutes for them for him to generate this.

[00:36:03] Obviously, then you have to work with some platform or organization company to make those calls. But very minimal time and effort went into sending somewhere from five to 20,000 New Hampshire voters and saying, stay home. Yes.

[00:36:19] And the significance of that was Biden's name was not on the ballot in New Hampshire because we, of course, did a breakdown episode led by you on this where we discussed the New Hampshire primary. His name was not listed on the ballot.

[00:36:31] Therefore it needed to be people needed to write in. So there was a strategic advantage. There was a political advantage to telling people not to vote and using Biden voice because that would benefit in essence, Phillips then again, Dean Phillips campaign had nothing to do with this.

[00:36:46] So that's not accused them of being involved in any way. But I think the magician is just a nice touch. Right. But again, it also gets into again what Simon said. And this is where this work could be a problem is usually as operatives when

[00:37:00] we're working for and we when we were when we've done stuff in the past working for campaigns or the party, we're always encouraging people to vote. This is the absolute worst type of thing is that is encouraging people, urging people not to participate in the vote.

[00:37:13] That's where it's just ridiculous. And this is just the beginning, right? So much more to come. So much more in-depth things that people can do from the deep fakes, having a Biden visually saying something on a commercial or a digital ad that is served to people.

[00:37:31] And love it or hate it, there are voters, there are Americans who don't do any further research, right? Go and vote. And if the president of the United States calls your phone and says, we don't need you to participate, even if it's five, ten, 12 folks.

[00:37:48] If this is the general election, let's look at it something similar. Let's say that ahead of the November election, this sort of come out go out in Minnesota and how many districts on the House and Senate level were decided by one, five, eight votes?

[00:38:05] So if you put out 20,000 calls saying, oh, you don't need to go vote. Thank you for your support. Democrats are good. That literally it has potential to really impact president or electoral results. And it's really concerning. Yes, absolutely.

[00:38:19] And no reputable on the Democratic or Republican side that I've ever would ever participate in this type of stuff. That's why again, it's unfortunate. A magician is being tagged with it. But it's just the prospects of it, how simple it is the 30 minutes and what

[00:38:35] can be done in the effects of it are just horrific. And I applaud Secretary Steve Simon for being raising concerns about this. It's unfortunate we have this quick of an example of it. But it's something that needs to be dealt with, needs to be policed and it needs

[00:38:48] to be enforced because this is just going to be right with mischief. And it sounds like there are steps being made to do that. The company that was used for this AI generation or generating of Biden's voice said that is not allowed under their terms and conditions.

[00:39:04] They are looking at putting more steps or barriers in place to make sure that doesn't happen. The FEC is seeking to make AI generated robocalls illegal. There has already been a bill that has been proposed by House Democrats.

[00:39:20] I know that Steve Simon, I believe, said Senator Klobuchar has been working on some of this. So there are steps. However, things in Congress move really slowly. And at this point, this technology, I feel like has the potential to move far more quickly than Congress.

[00:39:35] Yes. And you and I would know this, that the objective on election is to mobilize your side and hope that the other side is not as energized to vote. And this is a suppression tactic that is so easy to now do it needs to be stopped

[00:39:51] because again, it's one of the key ingredients of a campaign is get more of your voters to turn out. And if there's intensity issues in the election, if one particular side is more energized than the other, that has an impact on the election results.

[00:40:06] So when you're sending out a voice message from the president saying, don't vote, that's a real reason to not to just stay at home. And that's what's so scary about this. Absolutely. And that's just one aspect of this.

[00:40:19] I could certainly see somebody putting out robocalls in Donald Trump's voice against or for a certain policy that we know would keep Republicans home or dissuade them from voting for Donald Trump. There's so many different things

[00:40:33] that have the potential to come out with this and it's really concerning. So I don't think this is going to be the last time. Unfortunately, we talk about AI in as it relates to the upcoming election.

[00:40:43] But I am hopeful that the safeguards are the safeguards are put in place. In your experience of being involved in this type of stuff, is it the Craigslist and the magician? What where do you think the system failed here? Was it the hiring of the magician?

[00:40:55] Do you normally hire a magician to engage in your kind of political tomfoolery? I have not ever hired a magician. Can we just say for a second that the magician is such a nice touch to the story, doesn't it make it seem?

[00:41:08] Because we obviously don't want this to happen. Neither of us want this to happen. But the fact that there is a magician involved, I think, helps propel it. To not ever happen because it makes it seem just it's so ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Yes.

[00:41:22] But I think they're just like in any industry, there's going to be bad actors. We've heard stories here in Minnesota of people stealing campaign signs or doing different things of that sort that whether it actually impacts or not, but we're stealing campaign lit at door.

[00:41:37] Different things all illegal. You can't do very much illegal. So unfortunately, other than making sure the folks that are involved with your particular campaign are a good moral, upstanding character, which is really hard to do, especially when you've worked in the campaign world. Some really hard workers, morality.

[00:41:59] I don't know if that's top of the line for a lot of those folks, but it's really I don't even know where you go here. When we were talking about this, did you think it would happen this quickly? No.

[00:42:11] Because when Secretary Simon was discussing it, this is the scenario. I'm not endorsing it, but I'm saying this is if you're thinking of how one would use it, this would be a way in which to do it. The fact it was done that quickly.

[00:42:30] Boy, oh boy, they didn't really waste much time kicking off this election cycle. It was it was the New Hampshire primary and it was done. And I don't know if I was just naive to it.

[00:42:38] But when we were talking to Simon, I was like, I just think that maybe in 26 that might happen. I really didn't think it was going to be a huge factor here. So the fact that it happened in January of 2024 is bonkers to me. Just really it escalated quickly.

[00:42:54] It escalated quickly. And I am a little scared of what to come. Yes, because this is a scenario. I think this example is so egregious, done so quickly, so egregious and so egregious, so specific, and they've been caught so convincingly.

[00:43:10] I think hopefully sends does the things that are needed to safeguard elections because this is just scary. This is just really scary what can happen here. And I'm glad that Secretary of State, Steve Simon is leading the charge on at least from the Secretary's

[00:43:25] States perspective doing that and will always be supportive of anyone who wants to fight this type of work of magicians that are doing the things that they're doing. And all I can say is always question what information you're given and. Especially from a magician.

[00:43:39] We might need to bring a reputable magician on to speak about the crafts of their trade and not to do this type of stuff. All right, thank you. Next up. Next up is we have more Dean Phillips.

[00:43:49] We have more Dean Phillips, despite saying that he was not interested in running a third party ticket. While on WCCO last week, Minnesota congressman, presidential candidate, Dean Phillips, he floated the idea of a unity ticket with Ambassador Nikki Ailey.

[00:44:06] First of all, let me say I'm a big fan of Dean Phillips. I think he's right on the message. I've been consistent in saying that I think that where he is, where the vast majority of a number of Americans are, is that they're frustrated

[00:44:18] with who the picks are amongst Democrats and Republicans that it's leaning towards a Biden-Trump rematch. Most people don't want that. I just wish what frustrates me is I don't think that the makeup of either political party right now is going to reward the type of outside the box

[00:44:36] thinking that Phillips has, particularly on this issue, because I would say on the Republican side, there's a number of folks not to say that I speak for you, but I think we probably would align and say we would like someone other than Trump.

[00:44:47] But Phillips message is poll driven. It's specific. He's making very credible, reputable points. And my goodness, I wish more people would listen to him. Now, the Nikki Ailey thing, I do not believe that third parties on the national level are going to succeed.

[00:45:04] So I'm not a fan of... I've never been a big supporter of third parties. I think it's a two-party system. I learned that from The Simpsons. What are you going to do? Waste your vote for a third party? So I'm not a fan of...

[00:45:17] It seems like a novelty, a fad. It would be great. And like it in... It would be great to see a unity ticket. It would be great to be able to see, particularly in this time. But operationally, I think you and I both know it's just not realistic.

[00:45:32] It just couldn't work as much as we would love people to rally around the flag and put partisanship aside and focus on what's good for the country. That's just Polly Anish, right? Absolutely. So this would be the kind of pitch here was that they would run as independent.

[00:45:47] So both they played their paths, go as independent. He did say he would run as her VP. So let me say, this would be a really incredible duo in the White House. I think a lot could get down in the country. It would be great.

[00:46:00] The path to get there, unfortunately, just does not exist. Even if we think about 30% to the right, 30% to the left and 30% in the middle. That 30% in the middle, I just don't see really moving this.

[00:46:14] I think that I could probably call through a majority of my friends and family. And I think that if I did a personal pull, I think that this part of the ticket would be vastly outbating Joe Biden as a second

[00:46:28] term or President Donald Trump in his second term. Like you said, third party, it's not just even as governor kind of scenario. It's just the path I don't see. It's harder on the national level. It can be applicable on that. You can happen on the state.

[00:46:41] Minnesota is a perfect example. Minnesota has a rich history of third party candidates being elected governor and being elected to statewide office, but it's just much more difficult on the national level. And you don't the difference is we can't unlearn what we know.

[00:46:54] And you and I both know that if you just go through the operations of how elections are run, it's just not a possibility of happening, although it would be great if you think about that dynamic of Haley with a VP of Steve Phillips. That'd be fantastic. Yeah.

[00:47:08] It would answer. It would be not to steal Pepsi, but it's a choice of a new generation. Imagine the competency, the work that would be done, the level of I think trust and faith and respect that people would have for the institution of the White

[00:47:23] House and who is there much more confidence. But it's the system just isn't geared towards that. And that's maybe a subject we could talk about at a later date. It's nice on paper. It's the type of thing that

[00:47:35] it's a it's a it's the type of thing that people that don't understand. I think how campaigns are run in the mechanics of this think is a really good idea, but it just wouldn't work. But boy, wouldn't it be great though? So great. Yeah.

[00:47:49] Again, I'll just say consistently that I'm just I wish Dean Phillips was staying in Congress. I wish he was is I think it would be good if he was there. I know that he has frustrated a lot of Democrats with what he's done.

[00:48:03] I wish and as someone who understands his partisanship and the message that he's been pushing on, I just got to applaud the bravery and his willingness to stick to that message. While simultaneously it's going to impact his career, which is as we spoke when we

[00:48:19] had a representative volunteer Suzy on from the camp from his campaign, although she wasn't speaking for the campaign, it's something that we said to her that we really appreciated the message of Dean Phillips and what he's been talking about because I think we identify with that message.

[00:48:33] But I just wish that type of honesty in candor was rewarded in politics. It's not on the partisan. It's not on either side and so it boiled by wouldn't it be nice? Next up. Yes, keep going. South Carolina primary was this weekend. Oof. Oof indeed.

[00:48:51] Now Donald Trump came in just shy of 60 percent of the votes. He got 450,000. Nikki Haley or her home state came under 40 percent. She got 298,000 votes. Donald Trump gained 47 delegates and Nikki Haley gained three. So we have others, roughly 1200 delegates that are needed to get elected

[00:49:11] to win the nomination around 100 and I think Donald Trump said we're on 110. So we've had close to 140 ish that have been allocated. It's very early in the process. Your take, what is the path for Haley out of South Carolina? I will reiterate our love and admiration for

[00:49:30] Ambassador Haley for what she stands for, for being a voice for Republican women, Republicans as a total or in its entirety, Americans, everything. I think that she is a great messenger, a great voice piece, a great statesman for our country. However, she needed to win South Carolina.

[00:49:50] If my perspective is I understand she's keep staying until Super Saturday or Super Saturday, Super Tuesday. That's my campaign trail coming back. Super Saturday. Being on the campaign. CPLU season, yes. Super Tuesday is we're just under or just about a week away from Super Tuesday.

[00:50:07] But for me to see her having momentum to move through Super Tuesday and beyond, she needed to have even if it was 51 49, she needed to come out on top in her home state and it's unfortunate it was not as not close. Why do you think she's staying in?

[00:50:28] I think that there is a level of, I think she understands the dynamic of having these conversations and having being able to talk to Americans and talk to people on the campaign trail to show people that there is an alternative, even if that path doesn't exist.

[00:50:43] But at this point, I mean, I was surprised that her dropped a date was beyond Super Tuesday and not just past South Carolina. And who knows? We've seen this before coming out of Iowa and then 24 hours later a dropout.

[00:50:57] So it is potential that she does pull out before Super Tuesday. Do you anticipate that she will or do you think she pushes through? I think she stays in. I think and one of the questions I was going to ask you is because of the

[00:51:07] legal challenges Trump is facing, do you think there's a need for there to be a backup, an essence someone in the spot that could fill in? And do you think that might be some of the reason that she's staying in? Possible. I don't know from my understanding.

[00:51:22] I don't know the R&C rules well enough to understand what, let's say we get to May and Trump is the only candidate still in the race. And he has achieved his 1215 delegates. There are different states have different

[00:51:39] rules about being bound and when you can be released and who you can vote for somebody else. I don't know if there's a nomination from the floor. Maybe this is something we can dive into a little bit and have somebody from

[00:51:48] the R&C on that could be a reason. But I don't know. She's the last one in the race. Yep. She's already the only alternative there at some point. I don't see her going through the R&C convention as a candidate through the summer

[00:52:05] when that occurs. So I don't know. I completely agree with your perspective on South Carolina, what the expectations were, I know that the math is hard, but I'm and you're right now we described who would be supporting. I just don't want her to get out of the race.

[00:52:22] I simultaneously don't want her to take on more hits. But I think that again, I didn't support Trump in 16 or 20. I just don't want to accept the reality. I understand the reality that it's very likely going to be him.

[00:52:34] I think that in this particular dynamic with all the volatility that's going on, particularly related to him, that there needs to be a continuity of government. And I think it'd be a great breakdown episode

[00:52:46] for us to do talking about the R&C rules and seeing what that's how that scenario would break out. But I think that is I think that there's a lot that she's saying that is right. But again, just like when we were discussing the Phillips and Haley

[00:53:00] sorry, the Haley Phillips ticket that Dean Phillips floated, it's just the operations to get to that point where she could be the nominee is just very difficult for me to understand. And I'm sure it's the same for you.

[00:53:13] It's just there's just so many steps that would need to happen. And these the rules are written in such a way where winner take all and allocations based on who want one and stuff. There's a number of safeguards in place to prevent there in essence being

[00:53:28] a brokered or open convention. And so Trump would have to take some sort of role in stepping back if he were to. And I just don't see even if I could see this going through my head here, what type of scenario would have to happen

[00:53:43] for him to step back, aside from him being incapacitated in some way. But if he's in jail, they will endorse him while he's in jail. If he's if he they will endorse him in any way that they can.

[00:53:56] And if he has any form of judicial shackle on him, that his numbers will only go up. And so absent there being some other scenario where he voluntarily steps back. I think he's in the driver's seat. But I simultaneously he's in the driver's seat.

[00:54:10] He's the nomination, I think is every day coming more of the reality of what we talked. But I don't want Haley to get off the road yet. I don't want her to get run over, but I don't want her to get off the road. Completely agree.

[00:54:21] I think so like we said, Super Tuesday is first week of March, I think March 3rd. Following week is when the RNC Spring meeting is. And now this is also a tie in a kind of segue. RNC Chair, Ronna McDaniels is officially stepping down at that spring meeting.

[00:54:37] March 8th. This is something that is common. Once there is a nominee, she has met with Trump. Trump has his folks, including his daughter and Laura Trump, who's going to step in as vice chair in the North Carolina, I believe.

[00:54:48] GOP chair is going to be stepping up as chairs of the RNC. So what I'm most curious and this is going to be we're going to put a pin in this because following that spring meeting or at that spring meeting,

[00:54:57] just like at the Republican Party of Minnesota Convention, business is conducted. There is potential for rule changes. There are potentials for different things to come up. So I will be interested if there are any shenanigans of sorts trying to change

[00:55:11] how this nomination process goes forward, if it eliminates nominations from the floor or different things, there's always an agenda. Right? There are always agendas from different factions of the party, of the representatives of at the RNC convention.

[00:55:26] And not that I expect many of those rules to be changed, but and none that I've heard of being proposed. But I do believe that there is probably going to be some shots taken in different

[00:55:37] ways to impact what that outcome might be, whether it is a for a Nikki Haley type alternative or just to ensure that Donald Trump does not have any alternative to him at the convention.

[00:55:49] So I think that we have put that on our agenda for in two weeks and we'll come back to it and chat about that more. We need to speak to. Rhyne Sprebus. Prayer. We need to get prayer. Obviously. We need to get prayer back. Prayer.

[00:56:02] Prayer. We need to get her back. She's she can help. She's going to help. I think she can make this straight. She can make my Haley getting out of the race. She can lay out the strategy. We'll get prayer on.

[00:56:14] She'll make me feel so much better about this path and what's going on. Absolutely. Hear that prayer. We're going to call you tomorrow. Yes, exactly. And we should note that Nikki Haley is in town in Minnesota. Is in Minnesota today. That is correct.

[00:56:25] We should also note from when I give a name drop to Mark Drake, one of my good friends. He wants me to always remember Rhyne people that Donald Trump lost Minnesota in 2020 and he was here in 2020. He said he would never come back if he lost the state.

[00:56:39] And so I did an interview at NWCC radio. He wanted me to make sure I note that. So I'm just going to remind our listeners that Donald Trump said in 2020 that if he lost the state, he would not come back.

[00:56:49] And so I think that's a good piece of news on the horizon for maybe for some Republicans. All right. Thanks. Have a good weekend. Have a great week. We want to thank you for listening to the breakdown with Broadcore Rebeccae.

[00:57:03] And before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a real and Apple podcast Spotify or on the platform where you listen. You can leave a review or give us a shout out on our website or across all social media platforms at BB Breakpod.

[00:57:19] The breakdown with Broadcore Becky will return next week. Thank you again for listening.