Episode 100: A Break Down with Rep. Kristin Robbins on Fighting Fraud

[00:00:12] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy, and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherr. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. We are here today with our 100th show and another week focused on the Minnesota legislature. This week, we welcome Representative Kristin Robbins back to the show almost a year to the day from her last visit with us. Representative Robbins was elected in 2018 and is currently serving her fourth term representing Medina, Loretto, and parts of Maple

[00:00:40] Grove. Robbins is the chair of the new House Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Policy Committee and also serves as the vice chair of the Ways and Means Committee. With Chair Robbins, we will get into all the nitty-gritty of this new committee and the big undertaking they have to weed out fraud and misuse of tax dollars, something we have seen a lot of lately. We will break down why this was a priority for House Republicans, how it came to be part of the power sharing agreement, and how their work has already begun. We will also briefly chat about her role on Ways and Means,

[00:01:10] and Republicans' goals working towards this year's budget. We will then touch on a new felony charge filed against Senator Nicole Mitchell, and we will end with our reaction to Sunday's Super Bowl, the game, the ads, the halftime show, and most importantly, the snacks. Thanks for joining us, and enjoy the show. We are excited to welcome back Representative Kristin Robbins to the podcast. I can call you Chair Robbins now because you are officially the chair of this new House Fraud Committee.

[00:01:39] Talk to us a little bit about why this committee came to be, why fraud is a priority for Republicans, and how this new committee just got structured and is now in existence. Yes, thanks for having me. So really, fraud has been an issue since my freshman year, 2019, when there was DHS fraud for overpayment, and nothing has been done these entire six years.

[00:02:06] And it has been extremely frustrating for taxpayers to hear story after story of their money being wasted or being abused. And it's across agencies. Yes, DHS has a lot of the problems, but there's the Feeding Our Future fraud through Department of Education. There's many other avenues, sober homes, autism centers, child care centers. The list is enormous.

[00:02:30] And it's totaling, the last number I saw was about $610 million of money that A, is not going to the people it's intended to serve, and B, that's people's hard-earned money. That's out of their paychecks. So we decided it was time to have some legislative oversight of the executive branch. And so the committee was formed, and then once we got through the negotiations, it was decided that the committee would continue to exist.

[00:02:59] And I will be the sole chair. We won't have power sharing. And the committee will have a permanent 5-3 Republican majority. So I feel like that gives us strength and consistency for the two years to really start digging into this. Looking forward to it. And I'm delighted with my colleagues from the Democrats who are on the team. And I think we'll all work well together. It's not a partisan issue. It's a separation of powers issue. And the official name is the House Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Policy Committee.

[00:03:28] So a whole lot of stuff that you guys are going to be working on. And I do want to, before we chat a little bit about some of those specifics, hear a little bit more about why this, you alluded to it, but how this became part of the power sharing agreement. We've been talking to, we've had Leader Niska on, we've had Leader Dameth, we had Representative Stevenson in talking about the power sharing agreement and the sticking points for different sides. But this committee was one of those sticking points for Republicans, correct?

[00:03:56] We really wanted to make sure the committee continued to exist. We were hearing that there were people who didn't want it, that they wanted to kill the committee as part of the power sharing. And that was just one of our bottom lines, right? This is really important to taxpayers. It's really important to separation of powers. And it's really important to functioning government. So as Andy Lugar said, Minnesota has had the biggest problem with fraud in the country that he's seeing. And we need to address it.

[00:04:25] So he said we need to get to the root of it. And that's what this committee will do. I just wanted to say, just a moment very quickly, as someone who likes to see government succeed and wants good efficient government, I just want to tip my hat and just say, it's great that you guys negotiated this. I know that negotiating a deal is sometimes both sides lead with things that they didn't want to have. But the fact that the House Republicans held out for this and are tackling this issue, I think it's great.

[00:04:51] And your leadership in ensuring that it exists is something you should be very proud of. Thank you. We did see that earlier this week. You held your first committee hearing. Talk to us a little bit about that. From what I understand, there was a presentation from the Legislative Auditor's Office from Judy Randall. There was also House File 3 was introduced by Representative Jim Nash. Talk to us a little bit about what you heard from the Legislative Auditor and some of the legislation you're already working on.

[00:05:20] So we have both tracks going. Some of the legislative bills will run through Representative Nash's committee and state gov. And then we are focused on the oversight piece and my committee. And so Judy Randall, who is a state treasurer, she's our state auditor, and she is well-respected on both sides of the aisle. And she came in with a presentation that was an update of a report she had done back in 2023.

[00:05:44] So back then, she had looked at all the recommendations of the OLA to all the different agencies over 15 years and did a deep dive on what they had implemented, what they had partially implemented, and what they had ignored. And so she came out with a new report just early February, again updating that and showing even though that we had made progress in 2023 with creating an Office of Grants Management, there's still serious issues of noncompliance with these agencies.

[00:06:12] And so we had a big discussion about it, talked about how there might be some legitimate reasons for it, some not legitimate reasons for it. And then we were able to ask a lot of questions about what other tools would agencies need? What other tools does the Office of Grants Management need? Because in the end, we really need to put processes in place that flag fraud before it really gets going. And what's incredibly hard to claw back this money for taxpayers.

[00:06:40] And we need money to be spent wisely on the front end. We can't wait for the U.S. attorney, who's fantastic or was fantastic, Andy Lugar, to bring all these criminal cases. We need to stop it on the front end. So we're looking for ways we can strengthen statute and strengthen agency oversight to put that in place. And then I watched some of the testimony from Representative Nash about his legislation, which really aims to be more forward looking.

[00:07:07] Right. It seems to he said he doesn't want to litigate fraud, but to look forward at how to prevent it in the future. Can you break that down a little bit of that bill? And is that true for the committee as a whole or will the committee be looking at where fraud was coming from and how to prevent it in the future? So to Representative Nash's bill, yes, his is forward looking.

[00:07:29] And the bill that he presented this week is creating what we call a fraud note, which is similar to a tool we have in the legislature, which is a fiscal note where you understand the cost of a policy proposal before you vote on it. And this would flag potential bills that might have high risk for fraud based on a model that is already in place in California or Colorado for giving.

[00:07:51] So that's the Nash bill looking forward. But what our committee does is we feel like we don't until we understand the anatomy of fraud and what has gone wrong. We don't know how to put the right procedures in place or the language in statute. So one of the things that came out in our first hearing was that the Office of Grants Management under statute may cut off payment, but there's no requirement that they must cut off payment.

[00:08:17] So that's one thing we're going to be taking a look at. And I'll be introducing a bill that will strengthen that language so that we're not giving them any wiggle room. They must cut off payment for various thresholds of fraud. And we'll probably have it tiered so that at a certain level they get a warning and they try to work with the agency if it's just a mistake or whatever. But if you see systemic fraud or huge dollar amounts, we're going to cut off payment.

[00:08:42] So those are the kind of reforms that we need to look back and see what happened to be able to understand this is where we need to strengthen statute. That's great. We did see a couple of news stories come out in the recent weeks with some investigative journalism diving into some of these fraud cases that are coming in.

[00:09:01] And it seems to be pretty much aligned with what you're doing because it appears in, I don't know if it was the autism centers or daycare centers, but in some of those, they continue to get millions and millions of dollars over a period of three, four years, despite having issues with violations and questionable of whether they existed or were doing what they were supposed to be doing. Does this kind of work hand in hand with cases like that? Absolutely.

[00:09:28] The CCAP fraud issue originally, I think, was first uncovered in 2019. And most legislators felt, including myself because I don't serve on that committee, that it had been dealt with. And then we have whistleblowers come forward saying, oh, no, there's still actual problems out there. And so that's why that's where the first idea came up of do we need to say people must cut off payment, especially if you've been indicted or charged. I think we absolutely should cut off payment.

[00:09:56] Those are pretty low thresholds for protecting taxpayer money, right? So, yes, there are ongoing cases of fraud. I can't tell you the whistleblowers who are coming out of the woodwork to tell us about things. And we're grateful for everyone who's reporting. And I just want to say it's we're getting deluge that we are going to have to triage a little bit and it's going to take some time. But we will look into all of it.

[00:10:18] Can I just for a moment ask a question, which is this seems to be so common sense and the way you've approached this seems just really a good it's a really value added aspect of state government. It's something that should be done. Can you and your experience explain to our listeners why this wasn't in existence before? Because you seem to have spearheaded yourself and, you know, working with House leadership on the Republican side in the House of Representatives to ensure this happened.

[00:10:45] Can you explain now that you've gotten this up off the ground and there's going to be some committee work why this has a permanent part and why how it got to this point? You know, I can only speak to my I've served six years. I'm in my seventh year and all of that time I've been in the minority. So this is the first time we've had gavels and have had the opportunity to bring forward issues that are of deep concern to Republicans and our constituents.

[00:11:13] So I've had a bill I worked on for four years with the Office of the Legislative Auditor. So starting after my freshman year, that creates grants management, a statewide grants management enterprise that embeds things in people's job descriptions to have better accountability. That goes through a lot of the things the OLA talked about at our hearing on Monday. And I've had that bill for four, maybe five years now, and it's never had a hearing. And I put in a hearing request every year.

[00:11:38] And there's just been no appetite for oversight by the majority with the former majority. And so now I think the public has seen enough and the public pressure is what allowed this to become real. So I just love that.

[00:11:55] And I know it's we've seen a active participation from the Democrats on the committee and certainly different statements from majority leaders speaking out in the Senate and different members from the DFL speaking out. But it is and we don't want to this. Like you said, this isn't a partisan thing, but is that pretty frustrating? Is that why it needed to be such a sticking point in that power sharing agreement to make sure that it was maintained and move forward?

[00:12:20] We can all work together and just make it a little bit more of a priority for all Republicans and Democrats. I think that was our commitment. We wanted to do something real. And it's easy to talk about doing something about fraud. It's actually hard to do. And the governor certainly came out early with his proposal. And we welcome that. We want the governor to be engaged in this effort. But honestly, he's a little bit Johnny come lightly to this topic. And he has not held his commissioners accountable. We'll work with him where we can.

[00:12:50] But we have our own proposals that we're moving forward. And I'm grateful for the partnership on the committee. The lead for the Democrats is Representative Dave Pinto. He and I think we'll work really well together. Their other members are Representative Greenman and Representative Elkins. And we had good discussion. I really don't see it as a partisan issue. Nobody wants to see money wasted. Nobody wants to see people not getting served.

[00:13:15] So my hope for the committee is that we can work really well together and get to the root of this. Because it's the legislative branch which appropriates money providing oversight of the executive branch. And that separation of powers is what our system is designed to do. And we haven't been doing it, but now we will. It seems like the only people that would want this committee to not succeed are the fraudsters. Is that fair to say? It's probably just the fraudsters, right? Yeah.

[00:13:42] We've had terrific support from the public, from the media, thanks for the interview. Minnesotans, we're generally very proud of clean government. And I think Minnesotans have been appalled to think that this is how things are being run. And we want to get back to what we all view as the strength of Minnesota. That's good governance.

[00:14:03] So I have to imagine with some of this, there is also when you're digging through and doing the investigation into things, that's jointly looking at where there might be bad actors and folks maliciously doing, being a part of fraud, whether that's outside or inside agencies involved in that. And then also just lack of trying or lack of looking into things or following up or just seeing something maybe a little fishy, but not my job.

[00:14:32] And so I assume you're going to try to weed that out and figure out where that exists, where we can make things more efficient so that follow-up does happen in the future. And then also ensure we don't have those bad actors that are allowed to continue to work inside our agencies or our government. And they're linked. So when people with malintent realize that someone isn't doing the right process and doing the follow-up, that encourages them to build $250 million because they got away with a smaller amount, right?

[00:15:01] So they're linked. And the OLA and the hearing on Monday did a great job of talking about the need for training. For anyone in the state who has grants management authority, she wants to put together a fundamental block of training. And the current Office of Grants Management was, again, told to provide training. And they do provide some training. But the stat—and it's honestly crazy that we have to put something so specific in statute. It's honestly frustrating.

[00:15:30] But apparently we do. So they were providing training on several things, but they had no training on closing out grants and no training on fraud detection. And that seems what should be in some of the basic training building blocks. So we're going to work with the OLA on her recommendations, A, to require training. Right now it's that you may get training and there's training available, but it's not forced on anyone. And forced is too strong.

[00:15:58] But if this is part of your job, you have to understand the requirements of this position and then be held accountable for it. So I think most people who work in state government want to do the right thing. And so we're going to make sure they get the training they need so that they can know how to detect fraud and how to make sure that progress reports are coming in, that grants are being closed out properly. It's a lot of finance 101. And so if people don't have that background, we will make sure they get it.

[00:16:27] I'm just a quick question. The U.S. Attorney's Office, Andy Lerner, who's since stepped away, his office made a pretty declarative statement about that Minnesota has a fraud problem. Yes. Can you offer some insight as to what makes Minnesota so unique in terms of getting that call out from the U.S. Attorney, who obviously is focused on Minnesota, but has a leadership office that partners with all 50 states?

[00:16:50] What about Minnesota's culture, environment, how government is structured, allowed a state where I think a lot of Minnesotans, as you said, we think we're a good government state, that we're a good ethical state and clean state, that we would unfortunately be labeled in a way that Minnesota has a fraud problem. I think it's just a lack of a culture of accountability. And the OLA talked about this in the hearing on Monday.

[00:17:16] And she said, look, we have a culture where we want to help people and we want to make sure that we're trying to make sure everyone is getting their needs met, which is great. But she said, if you're not also skeptical and you're not also double checking everything, that's where you're taking advantage of and fraud can grow. So I think she's really working with us as a partner to bring to the agencies.

[00:17:43] Yes, you're there to help people and we want to do capacity building and we want to do training. But at the end of the day, we have to make sure that the legislative intent of how this money is spent is being done and then it's not being wasted. And that accountability piece has not really been embedded in the culture of the agencies, in the Office of Grants Management, in the people.

[00:18:05] As basic as someone's job description, one of the OLA's recommendations is that we put in people's job descriptions that they have a fiduciary responsibility if, in fact, they're a grant manager. In the private sector, that would happen without even thinking about it. But that's why it's been easy to pass the buck. People will say, it wasn't in my job description. It's not my responsibility. Well, we're going to create lines of responsibility so it's much more clear. So what is next for the committee?

[00:18:31] Obviously, more hearings, more investigation, more work and legislation on trainings in different ways. But what do you see in the foreseeable future in the coming weeks and months of the committee and your hearings and more? So we're working in tandem on bills with the Standing Policy Committee. So the policy changes. Some of it will run through our committee, particularly my bill. But most of it is going to run right through state govs.

[00:18:59] So we heard Representative Nash's fiscal note bill, fraud note bill this week. I know we have a proposal to have an inspector general housed concurrent with the Office of the Legislative Auditor. I'm assuming that bill will be heard very soon. I have a bill to expand whistleblower protections for employees. That bill was heard this week and is going on to labor next week. So we're moving legislation already. But then the committee will continue to have the oversight hearings.

[00:19:26] So we had the OLA last week, next Monday at 815 for anyone who wants to come. We're having people from the Office of Grants Management. The OLA raised a lot of issues about things that were passed in 2023, but maybe need to be strengthened. So we're bringing in the Office of Grants Management to talk about that and get their input on how we could strengthen their office and make it more accountable. And then we'll do specific hearings on other topics related to specific areas of fraud further down.

[00:19:55] But I have to say, have to make sure we're vetting things properly. And that takes time. So we're going to be very careful before we tackle a big topic in the public sphere that we've really done the work. Where can folks report? If there's any, you have stock about whistleblowers and protections. Where can folks go if they have any inside scoops, see anything that they seem skeptical of or know that fraud is existing? So we're in the process of creating a whistleblower website.

[00:20:25] But I've seen the test model, but I haven't seen the final version yet. So hopefully that will be available next week. And in the meantime, I get emails. Literally, I can't get back to everyone. So people can email me rep.kristin.robbins at house.mn.gov. And we will get back to you. I don't know where people will fall in the triage. Honestly, we're just still creating an internal system to process. But I'm grateful for all the Minnesotans who care about this issue and are pointing us in different directions.

[00:20:55] And the committee is a two-year committee. It's not like we're going to close down at the end of May. We're going to keep rolling through the interim and continue the work and do our best for Minnesota. You have a very active social media presence. Let's talk about that. You have a committee social media account. And people can follow that social media account. And if they have suggestions, then they can observe what's going on, correct? Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:21:20] I think the handle is MN underscore fraud underscore CMTE. And it's on Twitter. It's on Facebook. And I post some of it. We have a wonderful comms guy, Caleb Jungling, who also helps me get the stuff out. But we post links to the hearings every Monday morning at 815. So if you don't want to come to the Capitol, you can tune in. And then we also post follow-up about things we're finding. And that's a great way for people to follow our work.

[00:21:49] I was really impressed by that. The committee had that, and it's great and easy to follow. And we'll make sure to put a link to that in this episode. It's also great that you have that intake that you're going to have. I got a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse complaints about Becky. So I'll be filling up your inbox with them very quickly. Right. Oh, we do lift government fraud, however. Perfect. Now, we just have you for a couple more minutes here. I just want to ask you briefly, because you are the vice chair of Ways and Means as well.

[00:22:16] We just had Rep Stevenson on to talk a little bit about Dems thought going into budget negotiation and budget work this cycle. Talk to us a little bit about your work on that committee and what Republicans have as a priority moving through and building out our budget for this year or for the next biennium. First of all, it's my first year on Ways and Means, so I'm going to be learning a lot and listening a lot.

[00:22:38] But I would guess our expectation is that, and I've been sharing this with everyone who comes to my office and asks for funding for different programs, there is no money. Because the Democrats spent an $18 billion surplus when they had full control of state government, and they raised taxes on Minnesotans another $11 billion and grew the state budget 38 percent, it's completely unsustainable, and we are looking at a $5.1 billion deficit in the out years.

[00:23:06] We can't create new programs. We can't start new spending. We need to really prioritize where state money should go, and there will have to be cuts in some areas, because we cannot grow government 38 percent in two years and think that's sustainable. That was a really fiscal mismanagement on the part of the DFL trifecta, and now we have to figure out how to rein it in and get back to a balanced budget.

[00:23:34] I'm grateful the state has a balanced budget amendment, and we will have to make it work. Representative, we thank you so much for joining us today. I did an interview on WCCO this morning talking about the race for governor, and in prep for that, I asked a few people who was on their list, and you were one of the names that came up, and we're not going to put you on the spot, but maybe at some point we'd love to have you back and talk about higher office. I just want to let you know I did mention you, and I reached out to a couple of us. So folks are paying attention to what your committee is doing.

[00:24:04] They're really interested in this. Great job, great work. We'll continue to follow. If there's anything that ever comes up that you want to come back on, you're always welcome. Thank you. I appreciate you covering it. This is really important to Minnesotans, and we want to do right by them, so we will keep doing the work. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Thank you so much. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Becky, we just interviewed Representative Kristen Robbins, who is the head of the Waste, Fraud, and Abuse Committee in the Minnesota House of Representatives.

[00:24:33] Your take on the interview. It's great. I'm a big fan of Representative Robbins. I think that she has been a great voice for Republican leaders, for Republican women. She has been active in a woman lead path that I am on the board of. And so just to see her have this opportunity to chair such an important committee, I think is great. I think she's the right person there. She seems really on top of it. And I like the different angles that it seems they're working at. They're looking at the past to try to figure out and identify fraud that exists.

[00:25:02] They're looking how to prevent it. They're looking at the past. They're looking at how to prevent it going forward. And also, I think the training side of things that she talked about, I think, is something that is really important. I think that there are a lot of places in employment, in government, obviously, it's a bad rap. But a lot of places where folks say, if it hasn't been identified for me in my job description, then it's not my job. It's not my it's not my role. I don't need to look elsewhere.

[00:25:24] And so making sure that folks know that these sort of things are part of their jobs if they work in different agencies or different have different roles and knowing what to look for, how to look for that fraud, that waste, where things maybe need a little extra follow up, where they need a little bit more oversight and where to raise that and raise it in a safe way where their job is not at risk.

[00:25:48] I think, I think, are all really important aspects of what this committee is doing and how we can get to the bottom of some of these rampant fraud problems that our state has been dealing with over the last few years. Yes. First of all, I thought she did a great job. And I think she's I thought her approach and her knowledge of it and her intensity of the issue makes me think that this is the perfect person inside the House of Representatives to take this lead.

[00:26:14] And I guess I'm continually surprised by the fact that it hadn't existed before. Kudos to her in the House Republicans for setting this up. This is an aspect of state government that I think is not an 80-20 issue. It's like a 90-10 issue. Aside from the people that are committing the fraud, like yourself, there is no one that's going to be upset. You missed that, didn't you? The people like yourself that are making the committing the fraud. Yes.

[00:26:38] Aside from the people like yourself that are committing the fraud, who's going to be opposed to this? And so I think it's great. And I think it's one aspect of government that I think is I know that I would probably be I would probably be classified as a big government conservative, which isn't surprising. But I think that this is a legitimate function of state government.

[00:27:01] And I think it's going to be it's also going to give, I think, Republicans an opportunity to have a reasonable messaging platform and framework by which to pivot from and talk about accountability and responsibility in government and a whole aspect of things. It's just a really it's a good it's a good subject matter for Republicans to build on. And I think that there's a narrative out there already in the public that it needs to be addressed.

[00:27:26] And so I just hope that this committee and every aspect of this kind of this new kind of work that the state government is doing regarding waste, run and abuse gets the type of attention and enforcement that it needs. I want to follow up because I think you made an interesting point.

[00:27:44] And just because the nerd in me wants to have the conversation about a big government conservative, because this is something we also hear a little bit when we look at the federal government and the Doge committee agency that Elon Musk is now running to weed out or instill efficiency in our government.

[00:28:01] And there are a subset of people that certainly believe any ways of growing committee or any ways of growing government, whether that's a new committee, a new agency is just not allowed because as conservatives, as Republicans, we're supposed to be all for small government. How do those coexist? Because I'm with you. You sometimes need to get you need to get messy before you get clean, right? Yep.

[00:28:26] I think it's, first of all, I love to do, I've identified a few issues that are going on right now in the Trump administration. I think I'd love to talk to you off air about maybe doing a show just about some things that I'm seeing that I think are actually a good way to approach some stuff. I think that it's a 95 to 5 issue with people. It's not an 80-20. It's not an 80-10.

[00:28:48] And this specific thing is, and this particular item, which is, should the government have a mechanism inside itself to catch waste, fraud, and abuse? And I think that needs to happen. I know that there are various forms of that, inspector generals and other things that happen in various agencies and stuff. I know the governor has proposed something. And I understand Representative Robin's dynamic. I think it makes sense.

[00:29:14] I think that the legislature should have, in terms of those separation of powers, oversight over funding and programs and things that happen in the executive branch. I think that makes complete sense. The one thing that I think is missing, that I think that the governor's office, when they set this up, have a little bit of an advantage in, is that they said they centralized things under the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and some investigations. That adds a law enforcement component that I think escalates this.

[00:29:44] And I honestly believe that as much as the committees like these need to have teeth and they need to have strength. And so my hope is that this committee grows. It has some institutional stability and it grows. And it has the ability to have some of the same enforcement mechanisms like the governor has put forward in tackling waste, fraud, and abuse and other financial crimes involving under the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. You see what I'm saying?

[00:30:13] In terms of that's a law enforcement role. And as the son of a forensic accountant and someone who worked aggressively on financial crimes like my father did in working with the IRS and being a CPA, I understand that ultimately there needs to be, to get to the root of stuff, there needs to be subpoena power and sometimes there needs to be a badge involved.

[00:30:36] And I think that this is such a, I think is such a, as I said, depending on how you pull it in 80, 20, 90, 10, or even a 95, five issue. But ultimately I think as a taxpayer, I think we need people in state government that have subpoena power and badges and the ability to force people and that are receiving government programs to answer questions. And that subject is being elevated. And so I think it's great what's happening.

[00:31:05] I think it's a must, it's a must happen situation. I understand you get some conservatives who will be like, why does, why do these agencies need this type of power? The bottom line is this, is that it's very clear based on Andy Lugar's comments and the comments from his office is that Minnesota does have a fraud problem. And what's the best way to do this? We have a layered approach now that's happening. We have an effort in the house. I know there's some concepts that Senate Democrats have on ideas on that.

[00:31:34] And the governor's office has some proposals. The one thing I would say across all of them that I would love to see is that every committee and every point, every person or entity that's investigating, they have the power to really see the goods and to see what's going on. Because I think it's important that these committees that are out there trying to do the work of hunting down and examining and working to prevent waste, fraud, and abuse have all the tools they need.

[00:32:01] Absolutely. I do know, from what I understand, I do believe that the committee no longer has the subpoena power that Republicans were hoping that it does have. But I agree. I think the separation of powers aspect of this, I appreciate that the governor has signed an executive order on this and is moving forward, making it a priority as well. But sometimes you do need that outsider perspective. And just to make sure that there is that extra layer of advisory on this, I think is really great.

[00:32:28] So excited to see how this committee goes forward. I definitely encourage the follow on Twitter. It is, they've been very active, very vocal, and I expect that we'll see a lot from them as we move through the rest of this session and beyond. Did I make a mistake? Was I right in my interview this morning with WCCO to mention Rep. Robbins as a potential statewide candidate for office? She is great.

[00:33:03] She is great. She is a great messenger. She is so articulate, so smart, so powerful, and has that extra oomph that we want behind somebody running statewide. So absolutely for that. Next up, we have a little bit. We haven't had a ton of like funds and not that they should be fun, but a lot of scandal talk lately.

[00:33:32] So we've got a little time for a little scandal talk. Which is surprising because you co-host a podcast with me. But yes, lead us on the field of these developments. Anybody who has listened to us for a while or followed the news, Senator Nicole Mitchell was charged last year with allegedly breaking into her stepmother's home, was found in the basement with a flashlight with a sock over it, with a backpack, with a laptop that wasn't hers. Some of her deceased father's materials.

[00:34:00] And it's been a long, ongoing process of whether she should resign, whether she should not. She should step down before the legislative session. Her court case got punted till the end of this session. The Senate has passed saying that they're not going to do an ethics committee hearing on this and tell the criminal thing. So it just continues to get punted and pushed. But this week, there's something new that came out.

[00:34:23] A second felony charge was brought against Senator Nicole Mitchell with it as a count of possession of burglary or theft tools. Michael, tell us what they found. They found in her possession a blue crowbar that she had used, which was most likely used to pry into and break into the home. And so she was in possession of a blue crowbar.

[00:34:49] And inside the egress window, they found faint pry marks in there. What that means, and that element had been missing from the previous charges. And again, as you are the designated legal analyst for the breakdown with product, Rebecca, this is an interesting development. And what I think in my layman's belief, but I would love to get your perspective on, is that they've added another felony charge.

[00:35:18] And you'll be, a lot of times when you go to court, there's plea deals that are worked out in advance and sometimes charges get added and sometimes charges get reduced. This is an additional felony charge. And that leads me to believe, and in speaking with some lawyers, that this is an indication that it's unlikely that she doesn't leave this case in some way without a felony charge that she's going to have to plea to or accept some responsibility for.

[00:35:45] And that is significant because there was obviously a previous felony charge, but now there is a new charge. And this is coming a very long time after the case was first discovered. And this is after she got a break where the trial's not going to happen during the legislative session.

[00:36:04] And to me, this is an indication of this case is not trending towards a plea agreement and that Senator Mitchell's legal future is very likely going to include a felony charge on her record in some way, whether she goes to trial or whether she pleads this out. Yeah, this one also carries, both of these charges carry a possible sentence of up to three years of prison, a $5,000 fine or both, both substantial.

[00:36:32] I know also in the article I was reading about this, it has a little bit more intel of what she was saying, how she was acting immediately following the police arriving and their interaction with her and some discussion about her military retirement and what this might do to mess up her life. So certainly some rather guilty sounding comments. And so it is definitely a surprising thing.

[00:36:57] Definitely, like you said, I don't think at this, it feels as though if we were going to get a plea agreement that we would, that was going to happen a little bit or at least be in the works. But this is seems like a cherry on top of a really unfortunate Sunday for her. And that's unfortunate for Sundays because I don't want to besmirch Sundays.

[00:37:15] Yes, there were a number of what I learned are called excited utterances that she made in the process of being detained and then arrested by police that she made that were not very, that were quite, that were very guilty. It was very, she self made a number of comments that I think led her to lead anyone to believe that she knew that she had been caught and that she was in very serious trouble.

[00:37:41] What I find so challenging as someone who, again, and I'd like to believe Becky that if this was a Republican, we would be saying the same thing. I guess we need, we guess we need a Republican to go out there and get charged with breaking in or doing something. But what my frustration is that she's consent continuing to serve. And there is a clear advantage that she is benefiting from as a legislator. As when you were charged with a felony for burglary, they prosecuted you right away.

[00:38:09] You didn't have the opportunity and benefit of waiting through a legislative session. And neither, I mean that as someone who's gone through the criminal justice system, there certainly wasn't a delay for me for the legislative session. And so she benefits from the amount of time going on that she gets this carve out, this special carve out that isn't applicable to average folks like you and I, where she can delay this trial and continue to serve in the legislature.

[00:38:38] And delaying criminal trials benefits criminals. As someone who's gone through the criminal justice system myself, delaying having to appear in court and having to say that you're guilty, which I did once, delaying that for as long as possible would have been a really good Sunday for me. But that wasn't an option. And so the fact that she's with that, this is continually being delayed.

[00:39:05] And then on top of it, while it's being delayed, new charges are being added. Again, just want to point out to our listeners and correct me if my timing is wrong, Becky. This isn't new information about the crowbar. That means they went back a year later and said, okay, how can we add additional charges to this case? And the crowbar is not new information. They had it there, but they're adding additional charges, which is their right to do to upcharge this.

[00:39:33] During that time in which she is taking advantage of, not inappropriately, but she's taking advantage of the fact that there is a carve out for legislators that wouldn't be available, certainly wasn't available for me, and isn't available to average people like you and I. That's right. You're right. I mean, it is taking advantage of the judge certainly could have denied a request and done that. They are going through that process. But it is so frustrating.

[00:40:01] And I just actually had a conversation with my mom about this, and she just gets so fed up, as just so many people. Because even if you are not in this world and working as closely to government and politics as you and I, these are meant to be or used to be positions of people that you aspire to be like and look up to and have great values and are great mentors and representatives and spokespeople for our state,

[00:40:29] for our children, for our families, for our future. And then to have this, it's really that. And again, like you said before, Republicans have our own issues. I know some people could maybe point to our sitting president as one of those. But it is such a frustration, regardless of what level, regardless of what political party, to have these kind of scenarios where we have kids these days looking at our political leaders and saying,

[00:40:58] I can still do this. It doesn't matter. I don't have to be held accountable. I don't. It doesn't matter what I've done in my past. I can continue to have these positions. And I still hope we can get back there to having these positions be held by the best people, the best representation of our society, the people who do have such good moral compasses and do really strive to do better and be a good representation of our state and our nation.

[00:41:24] And maybe that's Pollyanna-ish of me to things, but fingers crossed. We can get back there. It's obviously not going to happen with Senator Nicole Mitchell, but we'll see. Here's one last point I'll say. As someone who has, I'm speaking of myself, that has had to go into court and plead guilty for something, which I drove drunk in 2013 and I've talked about it a lot, that's not a fun experience. Knowing the fact that I was going to go in and plead and there were going to be cameras there

[00:41:52] and that was going to be an issue, that's not a fun experience. You know what's also not fun? Breaking the law and doing bad things. And so I understand, but there was also a point when I was going through my stuff that I felt a sense of obligation to the community and to others to say that what I had done was wrong. And what surprises me, and I'd like to ask you about this, because I don't know how Senator Mitchell is able to move around like she is.

[00:42:22] This would just make my skin crawl to know that I was not dealing with this way. And I have to believe, I have a feeling you and I are somewhat wired the same way that would you be able to just, I would want this done as quickly as possible. And I would want to handle it in a responsible way as best as I could and try to earn back the trust of the public. It's just, to me, it's quite, it really raises a number of red flags

[00:42:48] that she's able to navigate in this way, show up on the Senate floor when she's now facing multiple felony charges for an act that she did. I don't know that I could, could you traffic and move around like that? And that's where, this is the next comment that I made to my mother when we were chatting about this is, to me, it would be unless you truly believed you were falsely charged with something, which

[00:43:12] I gotta say, I am not a lawyer, but it really doesn't appear that's a situation when you get caught with a flashlight with a black sock over all of the making of this. Plus all the comments she made. Plus all the comments. But to me, it would be like, oh my gosh, hands up. Let me step down. Let me go deal with this in my private life. Obviously there would still be stories and everything, but I guess I gotta give you props if you can have that sort of goal to continue

[00:43:39] to walk around and be okay with how people are looking at you and talking about you. It is so not something I could deal with. It just is, that part is really insane to me that, because I also think to your point, you went, you pled guilty. You've spoken at what, over a hundred different meetings and seminars and situations and really taken that step to, to change your path forward and to make a difference learning from your mistakes.

[00:44:07] And this is the exact opposite. Not only is she not willing to take accountability for it, but she just keeps saying, I don't need to deal with it now. It's, there's nothing on it. It truly boggles my mind. There was a, just to add that in, there was a Supreme, there was around the time that I was involved in my case and I drove drunk and there was a Supreme court case that was going to come out about the law enforcement having to get a warrant before they drew blood. And the totality of my

[00:44:37] crash was such that it was a life or death situation for me. And there were some questions and some opportunities that I had in front of me about whether I should fight the charges based on whether the timing of warrants and what was granted and stuff. And I made the decision, first responders and law enforcement saved my life that day because it was as close as you can get to not making it. And the last thing that I was going to do on a technicality, hold out for a Supreme

[00:45:06] court ruling and do this. I couldn't, I don't know that I would have been able to live with myself with doing this, doing that. And to me, the fact that there's this continuously, this ongoing, plus new charges are getting added and she's an elected official. I hope, and I do believe very honestly, Becky, based on doing this podcast now for as long as we have, that this is a situation where this is a situation where I know that we would be as critical with Republicans as we are

[00:45:33] with Democrats. But unfortunately, this is a Democrat. It does create an issue because of the mathematical proximity in the House of Representatives. Excuse me, the mathematical proximity in the Minnesota Senate, which is now 34, 33. Right. And I will say just in my final comment on this is it is a little frustrating to see. It was understanding getting through the end of the last legislative session. Then there were calls from some Senate leadership, the governor, from the DFL chair at the time,

[00:46:02] from others for her to resign, which she did not do. And then it's nothing now. Right. We're just not seeing. And that's where I think where some of that partisan frustration comes, that if it were Republican, we would be hearing that steady drumbeat. And to be fair, who knows, if roles were reversed, would Republican governor be speaking up at this point? Probably not also. But that's where some of

[00:46:28] that frustration comes with this being such a partisan game and a political ploy. So we'll cover it as more things evolve. We'll cover it as the case. Hopefully, it eventually gets heard post-session. And yes, do better, people. Do better. Speaking of doing better. Yeah. I'm looking for your analysis on this next topic, which is the Super Bowl. Super Bowl. So let's start with the game itself. Boring, man. It was boring. First of all, did you make it all the way through?

[00:46:58] I did. You made it all the way through the game? I made it all the way. It felt really fit. Just because it was such a butt kicking that it was so fast. But I did watch the last probably 20 minutes of it laying in my bed with the lights off, but finished it. Yeah. I forgot who we were rooting. I was rooting for the chase. Who were you? I wanted him to have a good time, but I did make a bet with my father and I chose the Eagles.

[00:47:25] Got it. Okay. So I won. I get a free dinner. That's fantastic. Great work. It was a blowout of a game. It wasn't that great of a game. Did the Chiefs just go in it so cocky? And I mean, that defense of the Eagles was just crushing. And I mean, what a blow to the ego of Patrick Mahomes. And it seemed he seemed and appeared pretty shaken through it.

[00:47:52] Yes, it was. And I've watched a lot of Super Bowls. It was without a doubt the most boring Super Bowl I've ever watched. But I had a great time. I was with neighbors and family and I had a wonderful time. But the game itself was just boring. I went to put my son to bed and Eagles were up 24-0 and came out and they were 34-0. It's just, it was absolutely mind-blowing. Obviously, the Chiefs did end up getting, what, somewhere in

[00:48:20] the 20s. It was still just such a blowout. And again, I'm no football expert here. I'm talking to my husband and watching over the season. You're the reigning champion. Now with Rod Corbin Epicy. You are the reigning champion of our Pick'em League. So you are an expert. But it wasn't as though the Chiefs just had a lucky season, right? They played really well throughout the season. Oh, they're a good team. They, what, I think last two games and both of those were within seven points. So it wasn't like

[00:48:45] they just got lucky, got here on a chance, on a win. We know they're a good team. Of course, people really want to still blame T-Swift for some of her involvement in this, but we need a personal accountable. I was holding out to see if there was going to be, if the Chiefs won, then I was, that's when I was going to just be watching it just to see if there'd be any movement and then there'd be any proposals that were on the field postgame. But yeah, it was, it was a tough, it was a tough day

[00:49:14] to be a Chiefs fan. But again, they've won a couple of Super Bowls and they got nothing to complain about. I did see a lot of chatter about, on the T-Swift, Taylor Swift side of things, a lot of chatter about how big of an applause, we'll get to what Trump got when they announced him and how Taylor Swift got booed. And I heard, obviously we've analyzed the pushback about her and this

[00:49:37] whole situation before, but I saw someone on the Twitter talk about how she is from Philadelphia and, or Pennsylvania as a whole. But she's from, she was an Eagles fan growing up and now she's obviously cheering for the Chiefs. And so that's where some of that animosity towards her at the Super Bowl came from. Which is just an interesting point. But speaking of, first sitting president to ever attend the Super Bowl, I can't even fathom

[00:50:04] what kind of security goes into that. But hashtag local angle, our very own Tom Emmer wrote on Air Force One down and was in, Tom Emmer, Jackie Emmer were both in the box suite with Donald and Ivanka and the whole crew. That's President Trump to you, okay? And first, no, and it's... Majority whip. Majority whip, yes. A couple of things. Do you have a bucket list? I mean... I'm not going to ask you on air about your bucket list, but I have a bucket list and it involves,

[00:50:30] and I'm not going to, the Data Practices Act doesn't apply to my bucket list. But there's two things on there that I will discuss. I've always wanted to go to Camp David, which is the presidential retreat, and I've always wanted to ride an Air Force One. And to see that Tom Emmer, House majority whip, Tom Emmer was on Air Force One with President Trump flying to the Super Bowl, I said, man, that guy's lucky. I can't just imagine. But flying on Air Force One to begin with and then going to the Super Bowl, that's almost

[00:50:59] as good as what I've said about Taylor Swift, who got to fly to private jets, sit in suites, and hang out with her boyfriend at NFL games. And a year ago, they won the Super Bowl. But Tom Emmer is a close second. Getting on Air Force One and flying to the Super Bowl, that's the way to go. It's still sometimes to me is just when I see that tweet and that photo come across, and it's, you mean Tom Emmer from Delano? Like, it's just this wild and crazy where he has gotten

[00:51:27] in his professional career and who he is and the power he has and mad props to him. But how exciting to have him there, to have President Donald Trump be at the game. It was very exciting. I wish we got to see how they liked the halftime show, but how did you like the halftime show? First, before we just pivot, I just want to say in the interest of full disclosure,

[00:51:51] when I get to ride on Air Force One, I will take everything that I can with me. I will take napkins, snacks, peanuts, if there's towels, if there's coasters, anything that I can take with me that's the benefits of being on Air Force One, I will take. I'll take a shower if I can on there. I'll maybe take use of the medical facilities, whatever I can take advantage of on Air Force One. That's literally my dream, aside than going to Camp David. It'd just be a dream. So I just want to say that for

[00:52:20] any current president or future president that wants to be on Air Force One, I come with those conditions. I hear they all listen to our show, so that's a great place to put it. They do. Regarding the halftime show, I have never felt older than when I watched that halftime show. And I've had it explained to me multiple times, and I still don't get it. And so you can explain it to me.

[00:52:46] You would think. But I'm apparently a little on that outside of the age range as well. Or it might be that I'm a blonde white chick from Minnesota. I'm not exactly sure. But it may surprise you that I'm not super into rap. I... My ears don't work that way. I like... I just can't break down at all. Now,

[00:53:10] what I've read since, there was a very clear message and narrative and storytelling that she did with Samuel L. Jackson, it was... There's very clearly a very large narrative. And with it being in New Orleans, which I thought was an incredible opening ceremony, and all of the different aspects of it, I think were great. It was being able to get his point or larger point across without also

[00:53:39] it being signs and political. And it was very impressive to see after the fact all of the different intricacies of that performance. But I just... I can't literally understand that quick of a speak, which might surprise some people because I also have been known to talk, but told that I speak very quickly. So it just really wasn't my, give me some Katy Perry and Rihanna

[00:54:04] any day. So it was just really not my jam. I thought Samuel L. Jackson was great. I understood the visual aspect of it. I thought it was great to see Serena Williams. And she was out there. So I understood that I just... And kind of some of the rivalry and the stuff that was going on, I think Samuel L. Jackson is a fantastic actor. To see him as Uncle Sam was just... Was just great. And so I loved... But there's the whole backstory and everything that was going on. It just showed... It's like me

[00:54:34] watching the MTV Music... MTV Video Awards. Like I can't... And it's like when I watch the Emmys or the Grammys. I can't... I got to make sure the Google machine's right there and I'm looking up Wikipedia to figure out what's following and going on. But it was a great... It was... I think based on what I've heard, the halftime show was better received in terms of a cultural moment than anything that happened in

[00:55:00] the game. And so that's a win. Yeah. I do also because I love a petty queen that he... There's this whole... A big part of this is the Kendrick Lamar versus Drake and that ongoing feud that I know very little of, but a little bit of. But from my understanding, both SZA, who appeared, and Serena Williams are both exes of Drake. So them appearing as part of the Kendrick Lamar show was also an added

[00:55:27] little pettiness. Sign me up for people who can be as petty as possible. I think it is a nice, clever little delight that we don't get to see as often as I would like in life. So I love that part. I can get on board the petty train. Two last things Super Bowl related that I do want to chat about. Commercials. Did you have any favorites? I would say... Go ahead. I would just say over in... Oh, I was a little disappointed in general. Usually I feel like

[00:55:54] there's a lot of funny, a lot of sentimental. I thought there were a lot that just were like, I didn't really catch my eye, but your favorite? My favorite was the Jeep commercial with Harrison Ford. I was with some neighbors and we were watching it. I would lose my mind if I ever met Harrison Ford. I would scream like a Beatles fan if I ever met Harrison Ford and he would be annoyed by me and then my hopes and dreams would all be gone. But I would lose my mind. And I thought it was just great tagline.

[00:56:21] I like this. That was my top two. Even though my last name is Ford. I thought that was a fantastic. I will also say to you before I go to... But let me hear yours first. At first, I got to say there are the three points in that one that I loved. One, first off, did you watch Shrinking? If not, you need to watch Shrinking because he is spectacular in it. But yes, I love that. I love the line of you can wave to somebody without knowing them or without

[00:56:45] being friends. I thought that was just... What a simple little reminder to folks. It had some good veterans line and then yes, I like Jeep even though my last name is Ford. Nice little funny end. And then my other favorite, which I actually didn't catch the entirety of during the show or during the show, during the game, but saw afterwards was a Google, a Google phone in particular, the Pixel,

[00:57:09] but a Google ad of using the phone as ChatGPT or whatever their AI is. A gentleman using it to prepare for a job interview and what it asking him the different examples of questions from a job interview. And all while different, his answers are being laid over scenes from him raising his children and being multitasker and having to think on your feet and having to solve problems quickly.

[00:57:36] And I just, I get goosebumps thinking of it as a parent of how much parenthood teaches. And what a good reminder that it is some of the, for those who choose that path in life, it can be one of the biggest teachers of any skill or resource that we have. And so that would be maybe the pregnancy hormones that made me tear up quite a bit. That's great. My take that I want to offer is this, is that the internet, particularly most of

[00:58:03] social media has ruined the ability. We're getting all, we're getting all of the commercials out in advance. We're seeing them in advance. So there's not that anticipation and surprises much. And it also happens with movie, movie trailers. All the, I remember going to the movie theater and getting all excited about all the trailers. I love the trailers because I would see things. Now all the trailers are coming out on the internet. And so I would say that I knew about some of the ads. I did not know about the Harrison Ford ad. So the minute I saw him, my whole world stops. The minute he's on

[00:58:33] TV and I'm not planning it because I immediately pay attention when I see Harrison Ford. So I thought it was great, but yes, that Google ad sounds fantastic. And lastly, what's your, what was your favorite staff? Oh, I had some food with the neighbors. They had pulled pork and wings and other delicacies. It was just fantastic. I have some neighbors who are, it's literally, they it's, they're so good at cooking and every

[00:58:59] member of their family is good at cooking. It's just obscene and everything is good. It's literally like living near, near a restaurant. It's, and so just an absolutely fantastic spread. I had wonderful conversations during the game. I, I was, I think I was alone. I was, yeah, my, my family was, I think everyone there was rooting for the Eagles. So I was the lone chiefs fan, but overall great game. And I can't

[00:59:24] wait for the Vikings to be there next year. Yeah, baby. That's all I got. Becky, I want to thank you and thank our listeners for joining this, this week for the hundredth episode of the breakdown with Broadcom and Becky. Before you go show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving your review on Apple podcast or the platform where you listen, you can also follow us on our website and across all social media platforms at BB break bot. The breakdown with Brock and Becky will return next week. Thank you so much for joining us. Bye.