A Break Down on the Session End, Guns, and Fraud

[00:00:11] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy, and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherer. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. Another week with just us two, but I promise we will be at the top of our game. This week we are focusing our conversations right here in Minnesota. The 2026 legislative session came to a close over the weekend, so we are going to break down what got done, what didn't, what voters think of Walls' final session, and what it could mean for the campaign trail as both parties seek the legislative majorities. Specifically,

[00:00:40] we are going to get into how Speaker Damus' role in the end of session deals may be received by delegates at the MNGOP convention next weekend. Then we'll break down the numerous updates on fraud, including the sentencing of Feeding Our Future's Amy Bach, new indictments, and the massive announcement by the feds here in Minnesota announcing the indictments of 15 individuals tied to another 90 million in suspected fraud. Thank you for joining us and enjoy the show.

[00:01:07] Becky, before we begin, I want to just take a moment to wish you a happy birthday. You have a big birthday tomorrow. We're recording this on Thursday. This episode will come out on Friday. It will come out on your birthday. Happy birthday. Thank you. It is a big one. I am turning 40. I am turning 40. Lordy, lordy.

[00:01:23] Lordy, lordy. You know, it's funny to me how many, I understand that a lot of people have issues with turning older and turning 40. I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking to somebody who was 92 degrees, or 92 degrees, 92 years old. And I was thinking, I still potentially have more than half my life left. Like, that's how I look at it. I love birthdays. I love the celebration. And you know what? A lot of people seem to be like, how are you feeling about it? How's it going to be?

[00:01:50] How's it going? It's great. I got two cute babies at home, a loving husband, a cute puppy. Life is good, man. I'm turning 40 and I'm excited to celebrate and have some cocktails and have a long weekend to rip it up. And they're just like, how are you feeling? Age, as they say, is just a number. It truly is. Well, congratulations. 40. Yeah, you've got a lot of years left. I hope so.

[00:02:11] And I'm 52. I felt, I kind of felt old at 40 but I felt younger at 50. And so, congratulations. Thank you for a little on air acknowledgement. I hope you have a wonderful weekend and have a great time. And let's do a kick ass show.

[00:02:29] Will do. It was a big week in Minnesota. We officially have completed the 2026 legislative session, and it wasn't as fiery as I maybe expected. Did you expect a little bit more fireworks and chaos?

[00:02:44] It's an interesting legislative session ending. We know this from our separate experience. It's an election year, and so there's usually, I think there's a lot of more, I think, back and forth drama that I think this session didn't really have. I mean, we had obviously the start earlier last year with a delay in kind of starting some legal maneuvering, and then we went through a cycle.

[00:03:08] And so now we're coming back, and it's ending. You know, there was, obviously, we'll get into some of the issues that there were some protests and other things that went on, some sit-ins and other things. But in terms of the back and forth, it didn't seem like there was much political volleying back and forth. What I mean, like, over the tennis net. Is that fair to say?

[00:03:28] Yeah. I mean, I think there was compromise. I think that everybody was trying to be focused on what voters think and feel. I think there was, and I don't know if it's maybe because it's Walls' last year or what really to attribute to it, but it certainly was not a trifecta end of session, right? It was, this is, we've got Republicans and Democrats that need, all need to be on board and something to move forward.

[00:03:52] And so they came to a final deal. And we'll kind of chat a little bit through how the implications this might have on the upcoming majorities and some of these candidates that are elected officials, leaders that are running for higher office. But let's just kind of walk through what was in the bill. The final, big final compromise. Let's see it.

[00:04:12] Big thing was the HCMC bailout. This is something that I think everybody knew needed to happen. I think it was something that kind of a nice little glimpse into the very unlikely duo or coupling here of the urban Democrats and the rural Republicans jumping on the same side because they got it to include money for hospitals statewide, which, as I think we've probably talked about in the past as well, but rural hospitals and medical care is really struggling.

[00:04:40] So it included roughly $205 million for HCMC, a potential $500 million reserve account for hospitals statewide, additional help for rural and critical access hospitals. So there was a kind of moderate, you know, joining together victory here for these different parties.

[00:04:58] And I think kind of really plays to what Minnesota politics is right now of the urban Democrats and the rural Republicans and impossible to not work together when you have just one seat dividing the two chambers here. Correct. Good take.

[00:05:14] Thanks. Car tab fee relief. This is one I was personally surprised got in there. Now, I think this is something Republicans were really, really pushing hard on and something Democrats were, I think, a little hesitant to go into because it was a big part of their 2023 transportation package.

[00:05:34] I think that this is a, or I guess I should ask you first, is this an indication that even Minnesota Democrats are understanding the affordability message, the nickel and diming middle class voters is not politically popular right now and giving them money back in their pocket is going to be more advantageous heading into an election year?

[00:05:53] Correct. And I think it's a great way to frame the question is that if, again, gas is still over four hours a gallon, there's constant discussion about what can be done to drop prices across the board in a number of areas.

[00:06:07] And I think it's a balancing act because I think the Democrats have Democrats running statewide, I think. Push back if you think I'm wrong. Have the advantage of saying this is President Trump's economy and therefore they, I think the balancing act that you have to do is, I think sometimes what parties want is they kind of want it to be painful because that motivates people to the polls.

[00:06:29] There's no greater, I think motivating factor to get someone to the polls than frustration. That's why negative ads work is because getting people angry, animated, fearful, upset is a way to get them to the polls more than any other way.

[00:06:42] And so providing some relief, but while also recognizing the problem, I think is important because if you fundamentally had the ability to solve it, which you can't that quickly, the question is from a strategic standpoint in politics, you're moving, you're minimizing, I think, the intensity that you could have in terms of turnout, which by all accounts, based on what we're seeing in polling, is that Republicans are going to face a very, very tough electorate and that Democrats are generally energized.

[00:07:11] So I think you framed the question right, that they need to give out, I think, a little something just to acknowledge what's going on. But also I think it's fair for, if we want to be very fair, the state legislature does not have the total ability to unwind and fix all the economic problems. Is that fair? Yeah, I think it's super fair. Push back. Tell me if I'm wrong.

[00:07:31] No, I think it's super fair. I think that the Democrats have internally acknowledged that maybe focusing, not focusing on affordability over the last couple cycles was maybe the wrong approach and that something different needed to happen. And I think this is kind of a way, just like you said, for them to say, listen, Trump and his administration are doing all of this. We're trying to get you more money in your pocketbook and this is why you need to be on our side.

[00:07:57] I think, you know, time will tell if that's something that people respond to, but I definitely wouldn't surprise me if they were hearing the same things that we're feeling, right? I mean, things are, it cost me almost $62 to fill up my tank yesterday, are expensive and anything we can give back to constituents right now is going to be a win for whoever they already like. Well, you're partially to blame. If you would sell your 2012 yellow Humvee, then it wouldn't be so expensive. Obviously.

[00:08:26] The other point I would say to you is, to your point, is you have been really good about bringing up what the Democrats have spent over the years, particularly budget surpluses. I rattled off a stat yesterday that I don't know where it came from, but it was from you, me listening to you talking about how it's a great stat about how much they've spent. And so when one, and I think you've been a really good job of reminding on this podcast over the last few years, what the Democrats have spent. And so giving something back, I think is an acknowledgement.

[00:08:55] And I understand the phrase that's always there is taxation is theft. Don't send me the DMs. I get it. Okay. But giving out something I think is important. But I also want to just go back to a larger issue, which is obviously when a constituency group at the legislature or legislators want to pass something, I believe that they want to pass it. But there is also a scenario in which something doesn't get done that they can use that as a motivating force in the election, which we'll talk about more later in this episode.

[00:09:24] And so I think, once again, great job in pulling out what occurred this legislative session and finding that one thing where they kind of threw a little bit out there. To me, it's a little bit of you're throwing out scraps, but it's an acknowledgement that something needs to be done. Well, especially with how short voters' memories are. They're going to go to the polls knowing that they potentially are getting relief on their license, the carb tab fees, and property tax relief, which was in this package.

[00:09:51] Maybe not necessarily thinking about three years ago that Democrats spent $18 billion and raised their taxes $2 billion. Here we go. That's what I'm talking about. I think it's a short memory. So it's going to be up to Republicans to remind voters that things are this way. You know, we'll get into more of that when we get into the election cycle. But short memory so that property tax relief was also in there. There were some anti-fraud measures in there. I think that this was a good messaging victory for Republicans.

[00:10:21] I don't know that it does what it would do, obviously, if Walls was running, you know, with Klobuchar taking this so head on. I don't think it's any surprise that these anti-fraud measures are here. I think everybody understands that voters are pissed off about fraud and something needed to be included in this. So and then the $1.2 billion bonding bill infrastructure bill, I was expecting under a billion dollars, but nothing too wild and crazy there. Everybody wants to go home and election year bringing money back to their district.

[00:10:49] So it seems, you know, pretty cross the middle benefits on both sides. You know, I think there's nothing really too surprising to me about what was in it other than I expected the way we've had some heated floor sessions and had some heated situations. I expected it to be a little bit more contentious at the end. And I feel like it was relatively a deal got cut. They voted and we're done. Why do you think that was? I think, first of all, let me just set the table.

[00:11:20] Fantastic observation on your part. Brilliant. Tell me what your take is on that. Starting with, I think that one of the leaders in one of the chambers running for statewide office has a lot of weight in making sure that the wheels stay on the train or the train stays on the tracks. Right. Like a complete. We'll talk about why it maybe helps and hurts at the same time. But to me, that's certainly something going on there. The governor going out the door here.

[00:11:50] You need him to sign it. You need everybody wants to have something done and move forward. And I think this also kind of will allow Democrats to differentiate what is going on in the state here where Democrats have an upper hand versus the gridlock that's happening in Washington where Republicans are in charge. I think that there's, I think both sides see this as a win. And it will be interesting what the voters think.

[00:12:14] We should note that the legislature ending on time, although constitutionally required to end at this time, is surprising. Because as we've discussed repeatedly, there's a rich history of having something called special sessions because they didn't get their work done. And this was a year that they got their work done. And there's, there's ostensibly no discussion aside from some curveballs, some flooding, something, some natural disaster.

[00:12:40] I don't think that there's any discussion or any need for there to be a special session. And so that's surprising. I, when you brought up earlier how the 2025 legislative session, so this biennium, how it started with Democrats not showing up and, you know, a delayed start. Doesn't that seem like 14 years ago? It's incredible that that is literally like 14 months ago. Yes, I can be, I can get lost on time very easily. And I was like, I gotta make sure. I was fact-checking myself as I was saying it. That's how long ago it was. But it wasn't that long ago.

[00:13:10] And if you think about where it started, where it ended, I really think, and I had not thought about this until you brought it up on the show. And I'm glad we record these and we don't prep this out in advance. Your observation on how the legislative session ended is what I'm going to leave this episode thinking more about. Because I really think it's fascinating how it did end. And your observations are there. Would you have played it different? If, I mean, just because I, a part of me thinks, so a part of me thinks they're so, again, pushback, do it spitballing here.

[00:13:40] But if you, if you get out of Dodge, you get out of town, you want to get on the campaign trail for two reasons. Number one, you're excited to get on the campaign trail. Or number two, you're worried and you need to get on the campaign trail and spending time at the Capitol is only going to make matters worse. Those are the two reasons. And I have a feeling based on polling and other type of stuff, my head is end the session, get out of there, and let's get on the campaign trail because we have some work to do on the Republican side. Is that fair?

[00:14:10] Absolutely. Do you, I completely agree with that. I think that Republicans have a lot of work to do. Do you think, though, if you had to tip a scale, if you had to give a percentage of who came out the winners and losers in this. And again, I'm not saying it's, it's a very clear, I think it's a really pretty even compromise. But do you, are you 60, 40 Republicans? Are you 52 Democrats, 48 Republicans?

[00:14:32] Where would, how would you break down of, or maybe even not a percentage, but just which side do you think slightly came out a little ahead in this final deal compromise end of session? So here's my honest take. And I'll, and I'll give my honest take and then I'll put on a couple of different hats that I wear. First of all, I think it was pretty even. I think it was a, in all honesty, Becky, it should be how it works. They just end and they leave town. That's the way it should be. But what we've seen over the years is this rapid kind of back and forth.

[00:14:59] We understand how the session began and now how it's ended in terms of last year. I think it was relatively a good split that both sides left. It was comrades. Here is the problem. And we'll get into this more. There's a difference between who won in the eyes of the voters and who won politically. And for me, it ended in a kind of a whimper in comparison to other years.

[00:15:24] And so going through this discussion on how it ended, which is just a fantastic analysis on your part to bring this up. I think the way that it ended, it was an acknowledgement. I think that folks need to get on the campaign trail, either side, meaning Democrats are excited. And I'm not trying to pick on the Republicans. I'm just looking at the polling based on the numbers. I think the Democrats are like, we've done enough. Let's get on the campaign trail and let's take this. Let's take this fight to the ballot box.

[00:15:50] And Republicans are like, the more we're here, the more we're locked in the legislative process. We only have one. We're tied in one chamber. The Democrats have us on both sides. Let's get out and try to increase our hand. So I think it was a win. If you are someone who is interested in the legislative process and good government and people coming to a deal and finishing their work on time, then this session accomplished that.

[00:16:17] But the reality is that I think the tribalism of politics is most both sides want to burn it down. Yeah. I mean, for me, I think that I think that's very fair. For me, I think that they I'm also going against my own question. I think that both sides win for different reasons. I think with the car tab fee relief and the property tax relief and money for rural hospitals, I feel like Republicans got things to go brag about on the campaign trail, got, you know, feathers in their caps that way.

[00:16:46] I think Democrats jointly got a way to say we maybe understand we went too far with raising taxes. So we're bringing that back. We understand times are tough. We're allowing you to keep more of your own money. Even though it's your own money, we're allowing you to keep it. But they get to talk about that side. We took on fraud. We took on tax relief. And we're fixing the big problems. And that is something for them to be able to go brag about.

[00:17:10] And again, I think drawing that distinction between what is going on in Washington is a big part of how they'll move forward. So I think that, yeah, I think there are some good wins on both sides for people to write home about. And the big fraud win is Office of Inspector General. That's what we're saying is the big win. Yes. And I feel good about that. I do too. And my compliments to the committee done by legislative Republicans and Democrats.

[00:17:39] I think we've had representatives of both parties, both chambers on to talk about that. And I'm very excited about that Office of Inspector General. And I look forward to that person serving because I think this is going to be a topic we're going to discuss more. Perfect. I do want to chat a few things that didn't really get through that I don't know are super surprising, but, you know, some of the progressive priorities didn't get through. I think I was expecting a little bit more of a heavy push from Governor Walz on this.

[00:18:08] I think he kind of talked about with his state of the state, some of his legacy pieces. Wanting some of that through, I think that it would have been really hard. And what they probably would have had to concede to Republicans in order to get any of those through would have been really difficult. So it's not surprising, but I thought there was going to be a harder push for some of that. No new taxes, obviously huge, but not super surprising with affordability. Sports betting, once again, did not get through.

[00:18:34] And then the Target Field HGMC tax extension, that died, but they got their money. They got their money. Real quick. Of that list, what was surprising to you? It was surprising. Yeah. I thought it was there. I mean, it's bipartisan. I just, I, the weird bedfellows for and against that are just, it's so unique. And I don't know why it keeps stalling. I feel like every session it's like, yeah, it's happening for sure going to get done and then doesn't. What about you? Yeah, I'm surprised by it.

[00:19:04] First of all, I'm not a big gambler. I did very early on. My father, my late father was a forensic accountant, was a CPA. And he made it very clear to me that the house always wins. And I learned that in a very brief run of two weeks when I thought I had learned how to crack the system. So I've never been a, never have been a big gambler in my life. But I think sports betting, the internet's on the computer now. We're seeing it in other states. I think it should happen here in Minnesota.

[00:19:30] I think that's a great, I think a gambling episode, I bet, no pun intended, would be a, actually pun intended, would be a great episode. And I'm surprised that type of stuff continues to not pass. And I, I think I largely put that to the feet of the Democrats. All right. Any big thoughts on how you think actual voters are going to receive this? We're going to get a chat into the Republican side a little bit more with the Daymuth conversation. Okay. But you tell me what you think.

[00:19:59] I think that this was, think, look, I think you went through an important list of things. And it was, again, how a legislative session should end. Boring, a little bit of compromise, and the role should be for government to pay some bit of attention to what's going on with Joe Q voter like you and me. I don't think it was necessarily, for lack of a better phrase, a politically sexy session. You know what I mean?

[00:20:26] I just don't think that there's, and so what I think it's going to have to happen here is folks are going to have to go out and make the case. For the one candidate, which we'll talk to you about more, who has a role in doing that, they're going to have to go out and message on it. And I think there's going to be, there's some opportunities, corporate lingo for challenges, problems. And I think that there's some things that they can talk about. I will say to you, and I've been kind of intentionally quiet about this.

[00:20:52] Do you know who I think had a very important role in how this legislative session ended? United States Senator Amy Klobuchar. I have a feeling, and this is just my feeling. But I'm going to think that it's informed opinion that there is the arrival of Senator Klobuchar to state politics, which she's always been. But the fact that she is now running for governor.

[00:21:17] I think that part of the reason that this legislative session ended the way it is was because, based on polling, there's a good chance there's going to be a new sheriff in town. And ending a legislative session without a bunch of drama and without that fighting, I think it was, I think that the Democrats and folks here did not fight as much as the end at the end because they know that Senator Klobuchar is going to be the nominee.

[00:21:43] And how it's kind of like messing up the place before someone comes over to visit. I think that getting out of the legislative session, that did a good job of not complicating legislative politics and bragging it into the gubernatorial race for her. They have, in essence, given her a bit of a clean slate to start with. They tight, you know, they, the bow has been tightened. It's neat and tidy. Everything's done. And now what have happened?

[00:22:10] So, like, if there was a, if there was a, let's talk for a second, if there was a special session or their work wasn't done, I think it would be much more reasonable for the media to go to Senator Klobuchar and be like, what would be your take on this legislative deal? Right. And things like that. And none of that, all of that has been kind of cauterized and done.

[00:22:26] And so I'm not saying that she got the bad phone going and called in, but I think that it would be naive of people to not recognize the kind of quiet way this legislative session ended and the political opportunity that presents for someone who is coming back, going to run for governor and have the opportunity to have there be a clean, tidy legislative session completed as the governor's race starts to heat up. Just my time. Absolutely. They're on their best behavior right now.

[00:22:56] Yes, that's a good way of saying it. Yeah, I agree. I think one thing on the Democrat side that there might be a little frustration with, and this is, again, Democrats tend to be better at keeping their displeasure a little bit more quiet and within their circle than Republicans who like to be all out in front of it. But I think that, again, we've talked a lot about the progressive versus moderate Republican Party or Democrat Party. I'm sorry, moderate versus Democrat.

[00:23:26] No, gosh. Moderate versus progressive Democrat like Amy Klobuchar, like Angie Craig versus Tina. I'm sorry, Angie Craig versus Peggy Flanagan. I think that this is something we're going to see as we head into the state conventions in a couple weeks. We're going to see a little bit more around all of this.

[00:23:44] I am interested to see how much is done publicly, how much displeasure some of these progressive Democrats might express, whether it is related to the U.S. Senate race, whether it's related to CD2 and the race to replace Angie Craig there, or how it comes out here. But I think that there are potentially some frustrated progressive Democrats that think that they maybe didn't get as much out of the session as they wanted to.

[00:24:09] And in particular, I think one thing there was some disappointment on was gun control. So I want to kind of break this down because this is where we did see a little bit of, I don't want to call it chaos, maybe drama, maybe theater around gun control. Obviously, I think that there is an extra added emotional tie to this with the assassination of Melissa Hortman, with the shooting at Annunciation Church and school.

[00:24:35] I think that gun control and gun violence has a little bit, weighs a little bit differently or plays a little bit differently in the hearts and minds of legislators across the board here in Minnesota. There was a package that passed the DFL-controlled Senate and stalled in the Tide, Minnesota House. It included a variety of different things, assault weapons ban, high capacity magazine restrictions, state surge rules, school threat reporting system, mental health investments, all sorts of things.

[00:25:04] But this was very real for people. There were a lot of families of the victims of the Annunciation shooting there, a lot more actual face to face with victims that I think made it a little bit more personal. But there there was a sit in the House Democrats held a sit in because, again, Republicans did not bring up that bill to the floor.

[00:25:26] Speaker Damath, obviously, by having the gavel gets to that is part of the power sharing agreement that was decided, gets to decide what comes on the House floor. And she said that this failed in committee. This is already went through. They didn't have the votes. Democrats were ignoring the legislative process because they disliked the outcome. And so they she said that House Republicans said that these proposals went too far. But Democrats were saying, let us vote. Let us at least vote.

[00:25:53] Now, on its face there, how do you think? Are you surprised that Speaker Damath and the House Republicans did not allow this to come to the floor? Or is that exactly what happens when you have a gavel and the speakership? First of all, they have the prerogative to not bring it up for a vote. That is the legislative prerogative. So I'm answering your question. Yes, they have the legislative prerogative. I would have brought it up for a vote. You would have. I would have brought it up for a vote. Yes. Walk me through that. I just would have brought it up for a vote.

[00:26:20] Just a full transparency. I have a carry permit. Strong advocate of the Second Amendment. I think the smart move for a variety of reasons would have been to have the vote come up. I would have let the have the vote come up and then shown that the legislative process worked. I would just have accepted the premise that, look, yes, it died in committee. And then I would have brought it up on a vote and then let what I think would have happened, the vote would have failed. But then have the vote. Then you don't have the ability for them to go out there and say that they never brought the vote up.

[00:26:49] Now, look, you and I both understand the legislative process and I get the process argument. But I'm thinking about the voters and what the message is. I think the stronger political message would have been the vote came up and the vote failed. The vote came up. I allowed it on the floor. I was on this issue and then let the chips fall where they may. That's what I would have done. But again, I'm not the speaker. I understand the argument of what they did.

[00:27:15] But I think the smarter political move and the smarter PR move would have been to allow the vote to come up. Now, let me say to you, I'm making an assumption that they whipped on this and they knew the count and that the legislation was not going to pass. I have a feeling that if it came up for a vote, here's a possibility it would have passed. And that, I think, is also in a reality. And so I understand that.

[00:27:42] I think the cleaner message would have been it failed in committee. But despite it failing in committee, I brought it up for a vote on the floor and it still failed or whatever. And let it go. Let the process work. On this particular issue, that's what I would have done. And biases and preferences aside, I think there are a lot of challenges with this bill that needed to be worked on. And one of the things about, you know, their concern about ghost guns and the assembling, disassembling of firearms.

[00:28:08] As someone who cleans, cleans my guns on a regular basis, particularly when I use them, when I'm out shooting or doing other things. I disassemble them on a pretty frequent basis to maintain them, to learn that process, to understand that. Those are some concerns that I would have had. But I thought about this a lot, Becky. I knew this, we were going to discuss this. And I just wanted to be transparent with you that I, despite my biases, I think the move should have been to allow the vote. Okay. Push back. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm right.

[00:28:38] Well, no, I just, I think that's an interesting take because I do always love the kind of rules are rules. This is how procedure works. Get the speaker's gavel and you get to decide. That's something to me that I always enjoy. I get that. But I know that the average voter, it doesn't land, right? Right. So my fear, well, I had two. My thought was similar to yours.

[00:29:00] I was curious if there was actually a Republican or two or five or however many that were potentially squishy on it, that were potentially going to vote for it. And they knew that. I also think, curious your take of how this potentially impacts spending, third-party spending from groups like Everytown or from Gabby Gifford's groups and these pro-gun control groups.

[00:29:23] Do you think they are more incentivized to play in some of these targeted legislative districts because no vote happened? We need this to be able to come up. Or do you think having that vote, having those Republicans vote no on Democrats, allow groups like that to come in and have that valor saying your, you know, your senator, your state rep, or I'm sorry, your state rep voted no. They don't want to protect your children. They don't want to protect this.

[00:29:50] That's my fear is that they are more, they have lots of money and that that gives them an actual checkpoint to launch on voters of your state rep voted against these protections for our children. They don't care about your kids. And I think that's hard to come back from. What about the ad that says they wouldn't even allow them to vote? Yeah, but I think it's just a little bit messier, right? I mean, again, I think it's when you're trying to argue the procedure of it. Do people get that?

[00:30:18] I'd like to be, I'm trying to be a little bit consistent here. And the reason what I'm being consistent about is we had a discussion a couple weeks ago about the flag or last week about the flag. And what I've heard a lot about the debate on the flag is people should get to vote. Now, I've listened to all the talking points, Rhett. I'm not the podcast nerd, but you are, you win that, you win that every year. Unlike fantasy football, you win that every year. Did you hear that come through? I didn't get much of a reaction. I wanted to make sure you got that. One of the technical difficulties to get my zingers in there.

[00:30:48] But one of the things that I heard from those discussions, that people that are coming in is like, shouldn't we just get to vote in it? It's an overly simplistic argument. I get it. I understand it. And when I was driving up with a family member up to northern Minnesota, I walked my family member through all the opportunities and how they indirectly got a vote and a say in the process through the representative democracy that we have. Okay.

[00:31:12] If you are thinking about Becky from the question that you asked, your question is premised on the fact that there are outside groups ready to calibrate money, ready to spend it. And so how do you factor this in? And I think it's six and one half dozen of the other. Obviously, a no vote. I guess if I'm on the spot with you, who I know is a campaign PR legislative pro, my answer to you is going to be,

[00:31:37] yeah, if you ask me the question, which is worse than a mail piece, that they voted no or they didn't let, wouldn't vote on it. I think it's not six and one half dozen of the other, but I think the no vote is more significant. But I also think with the creative nature of advertising, the fact that they wouldn't even allow them to vote and didn't support there being a vote, even an up and down vote in this, give the people a chance.

[00:32:01] I'm becoming a little bit more persuaded by what I'm hearing out there related to other issues that, shockingly, the public, I think, is confused about what access they have in terms of directly voting on stuff. And so I think it's also a significant mailing if it shows up and says state representative wouldn't even allow there to be a vote on this. Never even brought it up. I wonder if that does have a sale point.

[00:32:26] I do think the no vote is more significant, but I also think a very, very close second and depending on the district, maybe a tie is wouldn't even vote. And so we don't know all the discussions that the speaker's office, the speaker had with families from annunciation and other things. But I just don't believe that hanging my hat on it failed in committee and we're going to adhere to the legislative process is as strong of a message

[00:32:55] as it failed in committee. I brought up a vote on the floor and it failed. I think that would have been a stronger message. I think the reason why it wasn't brought up on the floor is because there is a possibility it would have passed. And that, I think, is a legitimate debate and a concern. And so what's happening now during this legislative session is I don't think the gun ad, I think, I don't think the gun control advocacy groups are going to be less motivated because of what the speaker did in this.

[00:33:23] I think they're going to be just as motivated. And I think it's six of one, maybe half dozen or the other on whether the mailing is just as strong as it says they voted no or they didn't vote. What I'm saying to you is that. I think that's fair. That's my take. Push back. I think. No, I think that's fair. I mean, it kind of leads me into my next question of do you think that this was partially the sit in the theatrics also surrounding it was part of that quest from the Democrats?

[00:33:50] Like you mentioned earlier of those things that energize the base because gun control, we know, is something that energizes base from both sides. Do you think that's where they were? They were looking to pull some folks out a little bit. Some of that have a little bit more of that visible fighting that we don't necessarily get in the super divided government. And I have zero problems with that. I have zero. OK, so let's be clear about political theater for a second.

[00:34:14] What I don't like is when they don't show up to the Capitol and they have a secret swearing in ceremony and they do things secretly. But if they come into the legislative body and they do sit ins and they engage in the legislative process in full transparency where cameras and people can show up in the people's house. I have no concerns with that. I have zero concerns with that. That is the that is what they are supposed to do there. That is one of the cathedrals of democracy is that building and that's what they are supposed to do.

[00:34:43] So I have no problem with that at all. I will say to you, to a finer point, if Republicans think that they are going to hold legislative majorities and not vote and not to take a vote on gun control measures in the full debate, they are sorely mistaken. At some point, there's going to have to be some votes in this because I believe that the electorate is changing on this issue.

[00:35:06] And I think because of some very tragic incidents that we've had in Minnesota, and I think that the manner in which this debate was handled and that there wasn't an up and down vote is going to be a very, very mobilizing force for Democrats in an already very mobilizing election for them. And for the record, my moral thoughts on gun control itself, I absolutely think there should have been a vote on it. My political brain is where I say play the procedural game all day long, just to make that a little clear.

[00:35:36] Okay. But moving into, I want to get into the Lisa Damath of it all. Speaker Damath obviously was big in negotiations, is the speaker, leader of one of the leaders of the Minnesota House. And before I get into my thoughts on it, how do you think she... Why do I always have to go first? Oh, and you want me to go first this time? I can do that. I have been punting a lot to you.

[00:35:59] So I think that she came out, I will say, I totally think that in general, she looked disciplined, she looked competent, she looked gubernatorial. I think that she looked like an adult in the room. I think she was not crazy fiery, pulling out some of the infighting, being all about the personality.

[00:36:19] I think that she was in this having negotiations, having conversations, making sure she got what her caucus needed her to get for them to go home and feel good about things. I do think that this also is going to be tough for the upcoming endorsement.

[00:36:37] So I think that there, you know, I think when we look at, I can see already her campaign or third party advocates, some of the ads that they could use facts, figures, stats, video statements from the end of this legislative session to make ads about why she is ready to govern the state of Minnesota. I also can see really quickly some of those issues that delegates are going to have issues with. Delegates, we already saw this. We talked about it a little bit.

[00:37:07] Representative Kristen Robbins, who has since dropped out of the governor's race, but one of her, when Speaker Damath got in, one of her big things was hitting her on being too compromising, negotiating too much with Governor Walz in the 2025 end of session. So I think that there are still a lot of spending. There is still a lot of money issues that the state is going to have, and that's certainly not fixed.

[00:37:30] I think there are certainly going to be Republicans who are very upset because they don't feel as though maybe she held Walz and Democrats' feet to the fire as much as she wants. Delegates like fighting. So when we look at the endorsement, delegates want that fighter. I mean, that's something, anytime I work for a campaign that is going for the endorsement, you talk about how hard you are going to fight. Governor Walz, President Obama, Democrats in the House, Democrats in Congress, whatever race you're running for.

[00:38:00] And yes, I know President Obama was obviously a shout out to back in the day. But they want somebody who is going to go and fight. And I don't know that delegates maybe feel that from her. So I think it will be interesting to see how she compensates for that when we come to the MNGOP convention in a couple of weeks. Your take. I completely agree with you. I think that the Republican activists do not reward someone. And this is one of my biggest frustrations with the delegates in the party process.

[00:38:28] The Republican activists want people that are going to burn the place down. And so the only way that Speaker Damath would have came out of this legislative session is if there would have been massive cuts across the board to government spending in ways that would be, I think, debilitating to a number of communities that are in need of that.

[00:38:49] And I think that Republican activists, it's been such a long time since they've had a Republican statewide elected official, particularly the governor, that they have a disproportionate understanding of what a legislative leader can accomplish, particularly when they're outgunned in a tied legislative body. And then the other two branches, the other two parts of the stool are run by the Democrats. Let's put in context again where Speaker Damath is.

[00:39:15] That she is the speaker because of a power share agreement in a tied house where she has a DFL counterpart in charge of the Senate and a DFL governor. I think based on those factors, the activists should look very fondly on how this legislative session ended. Will they? Absolutely not. And so I think one of the things that we attempt to do is break down the political reality.

[00:39:38] And I have said this consistently, and I think there's been some agreement, which is, I just wonder how there is a legislative session that doesn't end with smoke coming out of the Capitol and everyone being cut from things to where she can go into the convention. And it's necessarily a net positive. I think her argument at this, the upcoming session or the upcoming endorsing convention is going to be, here's what I did under the agreement, the, the, in the agreement that we have.

[00:40:07] Imagine what I could do if I had a Republican Senate and I was governor and there was another Republican speaker. That's the argument. The problem with that is that then you're getting into ifs and buts and candied nuts and hypotheticals and all that type of stuff. And that's where it becomes a problem because anyone can come in now and say, I could have done better. I think you and I are both experienced enough to say that this legislative session, and I haven't said this, but I want to say this.

[00:40:35] What Speaker Damath did here in navigating this and ending the session on time and getting what she did was remarkable. I mean, it truly was remarkable. And so from our kind of our good government's hats, not speaking to you, push back if I'm wrong, but I think she did a good, she did a good job. But we're not the constituency of the activists. And they think that not only is she going to stop Democrats' attempts for gun control, she's going to get constitutional carry passed.

[00:41:05] There's going to be a Charlie Kirk statue. There's going to be a massive cut in government spending. And we're going to have all of these reforms. And that's just not realistic. And so I think the endorsement process and the game is set up specifically for people like Speaker Damath to lose. And to not, not necessarily to lose, but to not be received with the support and acknowledgement of the victories that they got. Because I think so many of them do not understand the process, the legislative process. Absolutely.

[00:41:35] I think that is something we've even seen from some of the activists, delegates turned state legislature, right? They get there and they're like, oh, if we want to get things done, we actually do need to compromise and need to be a little more flexible than what we thought, right? And so I think that there is a great argument to be made from Damath, especially once we move beyond the endorsement, about she is, you know, she can hang her hat on. I am responsible for those car tab fees being reduced.

[00:42:05] I am responsible for making sure anti-fraud measures actually got included in that final bill. I'm responsible for making sure they didn't spend even more of your money after they wiped out everything two years ago. So I think that she has a lot of good things to say. And I would hope, no, this is going to be, these are my rose-colored glasses I'm putting on right now,

[00:42:29] that other statewide candidates and other speakers at the MNGOP state convention in a little bit understand that we also have all of these legislative Republicans who are going to be on the ballot, who voted for this final package, who have to go out on the campaign trail and also champion this, right? So, excuse my language, but shitting all over it just to shit on Lisa Damath is not advantageous to Republican politics and policies and governance in this state.

[00:42:56] Because that is something, this is what we always see, is that the convention and what is said and done there ends up coming back to bite us in the ass. And it's so frustrating. I do think one of the benefits, and again, one of the things I think that Damath and her team have going for them, is the work that they've been doing for the last six, nine months leading up to this convention.

[00:43:19] And then so we'll chat next week a little bit more of a preview and expectations and what we actually think is going to come out and happen at the convention. But I do want to be optimistic that the amount of work and one-to-one contacts with these delegates, with these alternates, with the folks across the state at the grassroots level, that she has done a lot of work. Her team has done a lot of work ahead of this endorsement battle to hopefully hedge some of those, some of that displeasure from the delegates. But it's a whole different beast.

[00:43:49] And so it's really, really hard to know how this will actually play when these delegates get there, when they start firing each other up, when we have a Mike Lindell speaking from the stage and a Royce White and whoever else. I think it's something that I think also can just like what you go into it thinking of. Thinking will happen can change just by how the people actually get impacted by speeches on stage

[00:44:15] and mailers or pieces that are, you know, lit pieces and all of that. So I think that one thing, going back to an earlier statement, is that delegates really want fighting. Like you said, they want the place to burn the place down. And Speaker Damath doesn't scream that, doesn't scream that mudslinging type of candidate that we've seen in recent years. I like that because I think that plays better to the general voter.

[00:44:44] But again, who knows how it will actually impact the endorsement. I think this is something very clear that the people that are deciding the endorsement are not the same people who necessarily are deciding, can she win a statewide election? And that should be remembered. Correct. And I would just put a fine point on it. I think piggybacking on the gun discussion that we had, per preventing or stopping that vote from coming up, is one of the things that Republican activists, if you're a delegate, in the minds of them, they should be like,

[00:45:13] okay, it's not, what I think that they fail to understand is that it's just not offensive. It's also defensive. What can I stop? And I think one of the challenges that Republicans have is they have been in the desert for so long, that they have been on defense for so long. They don't, I think, have what they can actually accomplish going forward. But I think good discussion on that. I think it's fair to say, I think we were very well-rounded conversation on that subject.

[00:45:37] Moving into another story of the week and a lot of different aspects of the story of the week is fraud. Obviously, the legislature addressed some fraud and put in some new guardrails, but it continues to dominate the news. This week, we had on Wednesday, two Minnesotans testify at the U.S. Senate Small Business Committee that they faced retaliation for speaking up. There were several new federal indictments related to fraud unsealed on Wednesday of this week,

[00:46:04] including one of the daycare owners featured in the Nick Shirley viral video. There was announcement of the healthcare fraud strike force. There's now also an associated website where you can report fraud online or to a hotline. There is at WHFraudTF for this task force that you can follow for more information there. There was an Amy Bach sentencing. She was kind of just being described as the ringleader for feeding our future. We'll chat about that a little bit more.

[00:46:33] And then a press conference in Minnesota this week with major law enforcement, announcing major law enforcement action. This is not your normal press conference. It included acting U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche, U.S. Attorney Daniel Rosen, RFK Jr., Dr. Oz, FBI leadership, CMS leadership, White House anti-fraud officials. It is not just saying we're prosecuting crime here. It is a thing.

[00:46:57] So they came here to Minnesota, announced 15 new indictments associated with another $90 million in fraud in the state. And, yeah, they're certainly framing this up as this is something that is continuing to go on to. And continuing to go on, the federal government needed to step in. And you should be concerned because this happened under Democrats Watch is what I associate. This all going on from the Trump administration doing their part here in Minnesota.

[00:47:26] You're saying I should be concerned? Is that pointed at me? No. Okay. Not at all. All voters should be concerned. This press conference, we should note, is going on live as we are recording this episode. And so some of this is absolutely breaking news. Amy Block sentenced to over 40 years in jail. Yes. I'm 52. If I got sentenced to over 40 years in jail, I would not be expecting to make it out. I don't think being in jail adds years to your life. This was a big announcement. This is the feds rolling in.

[00:47:55] By the way, can I just note that if, as you were going through the titles, if you had said to me two years ago that we'd have a press conference with RFK Jr. and Dr. Oz, that would be quite surprising. Yeah. But they're here once again talking about fraud. Yes. First of all, the press conference was late. Let's talk about that for a second. Always. We've both done comms work. What was your rule about starting press conferences? On time. Yes. You got to. I mean, you at least have to be in the room talking to them, you know, a couple minutes late.

[00:48:25] They did that. They did do that. Yeah, but not until like 20 minutes after. Right? Like, come on. You set the time. You choose. Nobody told you you had to come out at that time. I think that they did it because the president was doing a press gag a lot in the Oval Office at the exact same time. They can't step on their own feet here. That's right. What is your. Yes, I believe in promness in every aspect of my life, but particularly press conference. While I have you here on this topic, what's your stance on last question? We have time for one more question.

[00:48:55] Always call it last question. But when do you enforce it? Yeah. Okay. What if the principal doesn't? You're the boss of the principal, man. Yes. You pull them off stage. Thank you so much. We can, you know, why don't you shoot me a text? We'll get you. We'll get you an interview later. Love to follow up on this. We got another. We always got another interview. We got a phone call. Sorry. And then you chew the principal's ass for even thinking about entertaining another question. Yes. Let's talk about this fraud press conference again. I find it interesting the number of people as you were going through the list.

[00:49:23] I'm surprised at how many people are here. To me, that means this is kind of like a big deal. And what I mean by that, it sounds naive that I say that this is like everyone wants to participate in this. Sometimes you have to fight to get people like, can I, can we do a press conference on this? Can we get this done? This seems like a press conference that had trimmed the invite list. And so that means it's a big deal. I'm a little surprised and I haven't seen reporting in this. So I will amend this or edit this out. Surprise.

[00:49:52] No one from on the ground in Minnesota was here. Aside from Dan Rosen, a U.S. attorney. But aside from that, I don't see a lot of on the ground Minnesota people. So that's interesting. In my judgmental viewpoint, I don't know. Which is my favorite viewpoint. I don't know that the Trump administration thrives in that part of relationship building. That's a really good point, Becky. They're not collaborators. I mean, like, so I just my own personal experience.

[00:50:20] I worked on the Romney campaign in 2012 in Wisconsin. And that was the first call you made when you were going into into a city, right? You called your friendly mayor, state rep, state senator, whoever it is, local business leaders. You had people at the very least there, if not standing behind you. I don't know if it maybe plays in because we have so much statewide office stuff. You know, they don't want to be seen as giving something to a speaker damen.

[00:50:48] Maybe, you know, there's there's different angles of not wanting to endorse or give too much to folks. But I also kind of just think it wasn't it's just not a top of the priority list when planning these things for the Trump administration. Plus, if you're thinking who our federal representatives are, top is the United States Senate. Senator Klobuchar and Senator Smith. No interest to collaborate, as they would say. But you're right about the Republicans. I think that this is when I saw this list and the fact there was no Minnesota representatives,

[00:51:18] I thought it was just another opportunity for the Trump administration to just parachute in and do this. And again, let me be clear. I want there to be collaboration. I have no concerns about this press conference, aside from RFK Jr. being there and looking through the list and saying to myself, who else have I seen naked? Because I saw RFK Jr. naked once. But to that factor in, I think this is great. I, as someone who I would love if there was collaboration, but you never are going to see me be critical about the federal government coming in

[00:51:46] or any law enforcement agency kicking in someone's door related to fraud. Absolutely. I think that the ending, my last question on all of this, with the timing of everything. Last question. Last question. We'll see if I actually hold myself to that. Is the timing as brutal for Democrats as we would like it to be? So meaning legislative session happened, fraud dominated. Now we have the sentencing of Amy Bach.

[00:52:13] Now we have the top Trump administrative officials here in the state. Is this just going to do what Republicans want to keep the story alive? Or is because Senator Klobuchar is so out in front of this, having her big, massive fraud measure announcement a couple of weeks ago, does her taking it head on just kind of, again, take those wins out of the sails of the Republicans? And now it's just fraud as a bipartisan thing that Republicans and Democrats are in the state trying to tackle.

[00:52:42] I will say this to you that as someone who has covered the fraud issue very closely, as you have, I know. I don't know. And having read the reports and looked at this, I don't know. I wonder sometimes if it is clear to the public. I know that the Republicans, I think the Republicans who work at the House of Representatives and Republican legislators and Republican activists think that it is permeated through. And it's all Democrats that are involved. I don't know if that's permeated through.

[00:53:07] What I do think is that I think a lot of people assign it to Governor Walz and Governor Walz is not running for reelection right now. And so I don't believe that it is like it just transfers to the Democrats. As again, as we discussed last episode, I think it is going to be a fool's errand for Republicans to try to connect fraud and the enforcement of fraud and dealing with fraud to Senator Klobuchar after the plan that she released. I just don't think that's going to be an easy sell for the voters.

[00:53:35] So I think to the degree at which it ties in. You said last questions. I have a follow-up. Yeah, it ties in. I think that this is reinforcing the fraud. I think surrogates that are, I think partisan surrogates, and I'm not knocking that in any way. I think partisan surrogates will go out here and say, this is the Democrats again, this is the Democrats again. I just don't know. I think the jury is still out on whether that message is going to win this topic.

[00:54:05] I actually have two follow-ups because I knew I wasn't going to be able to be done. Okay. Do you think that while it may not be successful tying it to Amy Klobuchar, do you think tying it to Keith Ellison and Peggy Flanagan, who is running for U.S. Senate, has legs? Yes, a couple points on that. I think it does in the Attorney General's race. I'm going to put out a post in a little bit. The Republican Attorney General's Association has made an investment in Minnesota with some ads. They reserved some ad space. I think it's like $500,000.

[00:54:34] I'm going to post that in a little bit. So I think that outside groups think that there's some opportunity in the Attorney General's race. I will also say, and I will repeat this until I'm blue in the face, which I kind of look like right now, that is a legitimate issue in the U.S. Senate race. And I'm not to say it's not in any races. It's legitimate in all the races. I think we're better as a state the more of which this issue is discussed, because I think elections can be kind of a marketplace of ideas and things like that,

[00:55:00] like legislatures and states are little laboratories of democracy. I think on the Senate race, yes, I think that Lieutenant Governor Flanagan, particularly in light of the fact that Walls is not running, again, not in part because he was losing in the polls, but because I think the fraud issue had hurt him down ballot. I think the Lieutenant Governor is going to have to explain and should explain what she knew and when she knew it involving some of that stuff. So yes, this is going to be an issue. I think, if I may, I think like with ICE,

[00:55:29] I think that the Trump administration in these types of ways sees that Minnesota is just a problem state and they're going to do whatever they can to make Minnesota seem like a problem state. I hope that's all, that doesn't mean that there's not opportunities for the state to be fixed and corrected. I hope it's done in a much better way than how ICE rolled into the state and Operation Metro Surge. And so this type of leadership coming in and doing it,

[00:55:55] I hope there is collaboration and cooperation with state and local partners with the federal government. But this is a serious press conference, including from the guys on Hikid. And my last question about the serious press conference, when you saw this lineup, when you saw the announcement that this was going to happen and the lineup of folks that were going to be here, did you at all wonder if there was going to be a more higher level indictment or involvement announced at any level? Yes. Because I did. Yes.

[00:56:24] I thought that, I thought, and I want to be very, very responsible. And as the legal analyst for this podcast and the one ultimately responsible, everything's in your name. You don't know that. If this goes south, I want to be very responsible in how we discuss this. I think a lot of people have an expectation that kind of thing may be happening at some point. I don't know how realistic it is. Same. But I, when I saw this, I'm like, oh boy.

[00:56:50] And based on some of the online chatter, including from people that I think are very informed, which includes you now. Oh, thanks. There was like, this could be serious. Yeah. I still think it's serious. But I think. I think that there is a chorus of people out there who are watching and being like, okay, when is, when are they going to go to the state capitol without naming names and drag some away in cuffs? When are they going to go to other offices? And because that's where they think this all ends.

[00:57:17] And I don't know if that's an accurate perception, but it was in the back of my mind. I don't either, but we also don't know that it's not, right? I mean, I think that the investigations need to occur. Everything needs to be thought out, played out. You know, all the discovery. I mean, there is going to be, it's not something we're going to find out tomorrow. As much as you would like. Yeah. I think that they are very clearly working on finding those folks that are involved at the top. We had one sentence today.

[00:57:43] And how, if that goes, if there's some big collaborative scheme that was going on, if there are other folks. I mean, I think we will find out eventually. Either way. And it's just a matter of if that's tomorrow or in 10 years. Becky, another great episode. Have a wonderful birthday. Thank you. And I want to thank all of our listeners for joining us for another episode of The Breakdown with Broadcom and Becky. Before you go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us for you on Apple Podcasts or on the platform where you listen.

[00:58:13] You can also follow us on our website and across all social media platforms at BBBreakPod. Have a great holiday weekend. Happy birthday again. We'll be back next week. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.