A Break Down with Jay Reeves on Running for State Auditor

[00:00:11] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy, and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherer. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. Life has certainly been chaotic on my end, but we are here and excited to be back. And I'm most importantly grateful to my co-host for covering for me. In fact, there was a great interview you had with Michael Stepped Up to the Plate, had a great interview in my absence with Jay Reeves, the forward independence party candidate for state auditor.

[00:00:37] We will be excited to hear more about that conversation and what Michael learned. And now we're going to discuss recent poll results that show some movement in some interesting directions. And we will end with the recent push by Bernie Sanders to lift up Minnesota as a new progressive battleground. Thank you for joining us and enjoy the show. Becky, great to have you back. We did a, just to talk about last week's show a little bit. We had a great interview with Will Davis and Billy Grant.

[00:01:03] I got a lot of positive feedback about that episode and a couple of questions why you weren't there, but because people miss you and they wanted you there. It would have been, it was a really great conversation. And so I just wanted to, I really want to just take a moment just to say thanks to Will, thanks to Billy for coming on, because the one thing that I got feedback on about that episode was the demeanor in which all of us, led by those two guests, discussed, which I think is an interesting topic, which is MAGA inside the party.

[00:01:33] And it was, I think a lot of people learned from that episode I did. And it's, there is something about the way that will and Billy discussed MAGA in this state that I thought was educational and explain some things. And I, it is, was very, just a lot of, a really fun episode and I'll plug it in this, put a link to it in this episode, but I think it's a conversation. I hope we can have Billy back on again.

[00:02:01] I think there was a really good dynamic between those two and it really explains some things that I think is helped. I think really connects some dots that help put in context what's going on in Minnesota, which is great for our listeners. I mean, so go ahead. I was going to say, I, it was great for me. I think, you know, it's one, it's what we strive to do in this podcast.

[00:02:25] These two, you know, Billy and Will at some point were, you know, I'm sure have slung mud at each other back and forth on Twitter, you know, playing the roles we've all played previously. But to hear that conversation from three very distinct, I mean, you, Will and, and Billy, very distinct political ideologies and stances and views on all of this. It was really fun to listen to and hear all of those different sides and how, you know, something can, can mean something to one person and have different thoughts.

[00:02:54] And yeah, I, I was sad I missed it, but it was great to listen to. Yeah. And I, I appreciate that. The other thing I will say is there is a, the manner in which Billy explained the MAGA movement is a level of maturity and kind of approach as an operative that I think would, will be needed by Republicans who support that lane in Minnesota to be successful. And so it was great to have him on and a great episode as of all our episodes.

[00:03:23] And this episode will quickly become my new favorite as they are. Every one of them is, is my new favorite. I just wanted to just discuss a wardrobe issue if I could with you, not to put you on the spot. You mentioned a couple of weeks ago, this amazing shirt that your son got, and it was a t-shirt of a, it was a, correct me if I'm wrong. It was a monster truck with a Tyrannosaurus Rex and waving the American flag. Correct.

[00:03:51] You know, and I started to think about that a little bit. And so I had to go out and get myself a similar shirt. Oh my gosh. That is incredible. My new favorite shirt that I've been wearing around the house is, and so I was thinking about like, it's a really cool shirt. I love that. And so I was thinking about it. And so I've been, my kids saw me with the shirt and they're like, dad, cause let me just be clear about the way I dress. I am not a fancy dresser by any stretch of the imagination.

[00:04:18] In fact, if you look at pictures of me when I was a kid, I'm basically dressed the same way I am right now. I wear basically the same thing. And so my kids saw me with their shirt and they're like, dad, what's on your shirt? And I said, it's a dinosaur riding in the back of a monster truck, waving the American flag. The dinosaur also has sunglasses on, which I think you left off in your description. Yeah.

[00:04:40] And so the dinosaur has got sunglasses and my kids have been like, dad, that's probably the hippest you've ever dressed in all the time that we've known you. And so I just want to give a shout out. I couldn't get the exact kind that your kid got, but this is, I think, is the adult version of it. And it's quickly become my favorite shirt, compliments of the parenting decisions that you and your husband make about how you dress your kids. I love that. I'm going to have to let the kiddo know he'll be super jazzed. All right.

[00:05:10] All right. Well, yeah, we're back at it. We've had some sick dogs, some sick kids, some chaos on my end, but appreciate you holding down the fort. Let's keep going. And, um, we got some good things to get into. I am very excited, very excited to be joined by Jay Reeves, who is the independence slash forward party candidate for state auditor in Minnesota. And, uh, state auditor's race is down ballot constitutional race.

[00:05:40] There's going to be a lot of attention in the governor's race and in the U S Senate races. They're all over the airwaves. But probably one of the most important down ballot races is the state auditor's race. And I am so excited to have a Jay on and always appreciative when candidates take time to come on the podcast. Jay, thank you for joining us. Tell our listeners a little bit about your background. Sure. Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate this opportunity. So I'm Jay Reeves. I'm independent.

[00:06:10] I was endorsed by Ford independence, which is the Minnesota branch of the Ford national party. And, um, a little bit about me. I was born and raised on the East side of St. Paul to some teenage parents. My mom was 16. My dad was 19. I've got an identical twin brother. We lived for a short while in the projects in on the East side there, but I did most of my grade school and all, all my grade school and middle school.

[00:06:36] And high school there on the East side, graduated from Johnson in 93. After high school, I joined a couple of unions, did some work on the docks, did some loading docks and stuff, yellow freight. Then I went to Georgia Pacific short while and was driving truck. So I've been a part of the, uh, the union environment, mostly my entire youth all the way up until I was into my early twenties.

[00:07:03] And, uh, after, uh, 9 11, I was, had my small business driving truck and, uh, I was delivering lumber and building materials around Minnesota and Wisconsin. And, uh, after 9 11, the economy crashed. I lost my house, lost my vehicles. We had to kind of do a whole financial reset when the housing starts, uh, went off. So, in 2006, I joined the military. I was 31 years old. I was married.

[00:07:30] I had four kids and I joined as an E2 and, um, had zero college credits. Got my bachelor's degree while I was on active duty. And then, um, around six and a half years after I had completed about six and a half years, I got a direct commission to be in the medical service corps. So I went from E5, I had been promoted to E5 there and then got commissioned to be a second lieutenant in the medical service corps.

[00:07:58] So then I rose through the ranks there and I retired as a major, just shy of 17 years. 17 years, so it was about 16, like five days shy of 17 years. Things I did in the military were at the end there, I was a data analyst working at the Defense Health Agency towards the end of my career. And, um, also working in the clinical lab doing, um, data analytics there when we brought in the new health record system throughout the entire military.

[00:08:28] So I was there part of that transition as well. So let's see, what else can I tell you? Let's see. Right now I live in Victoria. I was medically retired in 2023 because I was diagnosed with cancer in 2022. Stage four cancer, presumed to be from the burn pits from my time in Iraq. And, um, I live in Victoria with my wife. We have six kids together, uh, three grandbabies.

[00:08:50] And, um, I'm looking forward to trying to serve Minnesota in a different capacity, given that my career was so cut short, uh, in the military. That was not the plan to leave after 17 years. But in my career, my goal was to stay as long as I could until they kicked me out. They kicked me out kinda before I got the chance to really get, get going too much. But that's where I was at. Well, Jay, first of all, let me say thank you for your service. You enlisted after 9-11. I did. 2006.

[00:09:19] And I don't believe I caught this, so I want to just make sure. Which branch of the military did you join? Army. Army. Just amazing. Thank you for your service. Thank you. One thing, one of the, probably the most substantive regret I have in my life, and as Frank Sinatra said, regrets, I have a few, but is not joining the military. And in all seriousness, I am in complete awe of people who at any points in their lives wore our nation's uniform.

[00:09:47] And so particularly as someone, I was born in 73, I'm 52. I know exactly what happened on 9-11 and what happened. And to see people step up in the immediate after that, I just think you're a true hero. And I just want to just acknowledge and say thank you for doing that. Thank you so much. And, um, you're battling, you battled cancer. My goodness, you would have all of the reasons in life to just sit back and take it easy,

[00:10:16] but you're not in your diving in. Diving straight in. That's not my, it's not in my character. It's not in my DNA to sit back and watch what's going on in our state. When I decided that I was gonna get more involved, I have a voice. I'm young. Still, I find myself to be still young. I'm 51 years old. I just turned 51. And I want to be a voice for those that don't necessarily have the capacity to do that or, or even the will or the want.

[00:10:44] So I have the will and the want and the capacity. So I want to be the voice for Minnesotans because I believe that we deserve it. We need it. It's been lost in our political systems over the last 15 or 20 years. I think Minnesotans have been forgotten about. So I'm going to come back to Minnesota here and make sure that we're well represented for those that are true Minnesotans, diehard, born and raised through and through. You know, Jay, you and I had spoken on the phone as we lined up this interview and you mentioned a little bit of your background.

[00:11:14] But, you know, as I'm sitting here listening to it and you kind of go through your biographical points in your life, not sure that there are a lot of candidates right now running for office who are battling cancer. And it's amazing to me the strength that you have to do that. And it's significant. I think of when I was deputy chair of the Republican Party, there was a candidate running in Cottage Grove by the name of John Creasel. And we would have candidates that would complain about doorknocking.

[00:11:41] And we used to say, there is a candidate right now running in Cottage Grove who doesn't have legs. And if they can go out and doorknock, you can go out and doorknock. And so I just want to pause and just say that character story of what you're going through right now and what you've done, it is truly amazing. And the only thing that I can really offer in this kind of discussion is I just don't, as a student of politics, I've never had my name on a ballot aside from an inter-party race for deputy chair, which I won a couple times.

[00:12:11] To have someone out there going through what you're going through and still have this desire just to serve is truly remarkable. I just want to just take a point and just acknowledge that there are so many reasons right now that politics can be ugly, can deter people from not running. And we shine so many lights on the negativity.

[00:12:33] And one of the reasons I wanted to speak with you is independent of knowing some of these aspects of your background, it just seems that you are one of the good guys out there trying to do this for the right reasons. And I just wanted to say that because politics can be so ugly. We sometimes reward the ugliness and the squeaky wheel, and we don't reward sometimes the people that are just in there for all the right reasons. And so you seem to be a guy that's in it for all the right reasons. And I just wanted to say that.

[00:13:03] Thank you so much. I'm very genuine. I'm going to be very honest. I'm going to be very candid. You know, I have been, I've been very blessed and I'm very resilient to what's been going on. I, you know, I, I will always have stage four cancer. That's never going to go away just because of the type of cancer that I have. But I'm very thankful for the treatments that I've received from the Mayo Clinic to begin with, Fort Belvoir, when I first got my initial surgery in 2022.

[00:13:30] But then, and then I went to Mayo and had some surgery, I had a surgery there and continued some care there even after my retirement. And now I get my care done at, at the VA and I'm very thankful for all of it. The care that I've received has been fantastic. It's just in monitoring now. It's just in the monitoring phase, making sure that we keep track of it every six months or so, going for some scans and everything's been good.

[00:13:54] It's stable, you know, but it's never going to, it's never going to completely be gone because just because of where the cancer is located now. But it is what it is. I'm going to make the best of it. And I'm going to keep fighting my, till my very last breath for all of, all of us and service members too. We forget about all of those other service members that are out there. I've got a story that I can share with service members. And I do because I volunteer to go visit service members.

[00:14:21] I try to do it on a weekly basis in hospice locations throughout the Twin Cities. So we go in through a hospice location and pin them, thank them for their service, sit down with them, have conversations and just give them a voice, an ear to listen to.

[00:14:40] And so my goal isn't just to be, to gatekeep anything that I have, it's to share the knowledge and experiences that I've gone through and hopefully benefit anybody that might be able to. Jay, that's, that's pretty remarkable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. You know, Becky and I have been doing this podcast for close to, I think, almost four years now, coming up to three and a half, close to four years. I don't know that we've interviewed a lot of third party candidates before.

[00:15:10] And so explain to our listeners a little bit of your political history that led you to seek party, to seek political office as a third party candidate and the benefits that you saw to that. Sure. So growing up, I really weren't, I wasn't politically involved in any way. When we were in the military, we had to remain apolitical. So we really couldn't have a voice in one way or another. So I always remained independent.

[00:15:36] The very first vote that I ever made prior to even joining the military was for Jesse Ventura as an independent. And so I've considered myself independent for my entire adult life. While I was in the military, I sought out a party in Minnesota that I might be able to get involved with upon my retirement. And I sought out Independence Alliance initially, which was initially the Jesse Ventura full party years and years ago.

[00:16:06] They were going through some things. It really wasn't a stable environment at the time for a political movement or anything like that. They were going through some transition times. So I really, when I came back to Minnesota, I was searching for a political party where I could find homes. So the only ones that really had option were Republicans or the Democrats at the two major parties. So I reached out to the Republicans in this area out here in CD6.

[00:16:34] And, you know, they have their candidates. They got their base. So they weren't really interested in another guy coming in and disrupting anything. I really didn't fit their full agenda and their ideologies. And so I reached out to the Democrat side. And they didn't really have a candidate for CD6. So I said, you know, I'm an independent, but I'll try and seek your endorsement. So in 2024, I did try to seek an endorsement through the DFL for CD6 to run against Tom Emmer.

[00:17:02] But I maintained my independence and they knew that going in. And I did not get the endorsement. So my time running for CD6 was pretty short. I think it went from January to May or something like that. It was pretty quick. And then I just didn't feel at home there. So then I later on, I did find out that Independence Alliance merged with the Forward Party and became Forward Independence. And that's where I found a home. And I felt very comfortable. And the leadership there has been fantastic.

[00:17:32] And I have free form to do what I want to in my campaign. It's not based on any extreme platform issues. It's whatever I feel as a candidate is best for me and my policies that I want to push forward. They're fully supportive of. I don't need to run it by them. There's no sounding board. It isn't, hey, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? No, I run my campaign. I run my campaign. They don't really say anything about it.

[00:18:01] And it's fantastic. And they're just there to help support should I need some of that infrastructure support at any time. So that's where I found a home. And I plan on building this party from a minor party to a major party in this next election. And we need, we're going to push hard in order to do that. So you said a couple words that I want to just dial down too quickly here. Major, minor.

[00:18:26] In the state of Minnesota, we have, and please correct if I'm wrong, two major parties, the Democrats and the Republicans. The Republican Party of Minnesota and the Democratic Farm and Labor Party. We have had other major parties in the past. And the distinction between a major and minor political party is the percentage of which those candidates have gotten in previous elections. And so we have had marijuana parties. We have had independence parties that have had major party status.

[00:18:55] And the advantage for our listeners is that if I want to file and run for office as a Republican or a Democrat, because the Republican and DFL, Democratic Farm and Labor parties are considered major parties. I am in essence granted immediate ballot access, meaning I'm already, my name's on the ticket. If I file for one of those parties, I get ballot access.

[00:19:18] But if you're a minor party and you're not, you don't have that major party status, there is additional legwork that needs to be done for candidates' names to appear on the ballot. And so, Jay, describe to our listeners the kind of, because it's not just as simple as you going down there paying a filing fee and getting your name on. You had to do some additional grassroots work to get your name on the ballot. Explain that to our listeners.

[00:19:43] Yeah, so one distinction I want to make sure folks know is that even if you do become a major party, and the reason why we only have two now is because you have to maintain a certain requirement throughout each election, the percentage, in order to maintain that major party status. So major parties have been dwindled down to the two major parties that we currently have, which you already mentioned.

[00:20:08] So as a minor party, what I have to do, or what we've had to do, is we've had to get 2,000 signatures in a two-week window, roughly, at the end of May and the beginning of June, in order to get my name on the general election ballot. And so during, from May 19th through June 2nd, I had to gather 2,000 signatures. And because I'm a statewide race, I could use signatures throughout the entire state.

[00:20:36] So if you are a third party or an independent or something that is more district-centric, you have to only get signatures within that specific district, and those numbers are less. So it could be 500 or it could be 1,000, depending on what it is, but there are different levels of that. But I'm a statewide race, so I had to get 2,000 signatures from May 19th through June 2nd in order to file. And those had to be 2,000 valid signatures. Correct.

[00:21:04] What we did is we created a very good network of individuals throughout the entire state through technology and other means that we were able to collect 2,660 signatures in those two weeks. So my name, I skip the primary and go directly to the general election in November. So my name is not on the ballot because in Minnesota, minor parties or independents are not primaries. It's closed for independents.

[00:21:34] We can't even vote. If I want to vote, I'd have to choose either Republican or Democrat in the primary, of which so I'm not voting. And I've never voted in a primary because I've always been an independent. So that's how it works. I'll be on the ballot in November. There'll be one Republican, there'll be one Democrat, and there'll be me as the forward independents endorsed candidate.

[00:21:58] Let me just say that as a Republican, so when Republicans and Democrats files, and we're going to get in the weeds here just for a minute because that's what we do on the podcast. Republicans and Democrats, when they file for statewide office, and let's just speak statewide for a second, they can pay a filing fee and they can sign. They can also sign by petition. So they can go through that process of getting the signatures.

[00:22:21] I just want to make sure our listeners are aware, as someone who's been worked on campaigns, was a party officer, and it observes now from where I do and is just a student of politics in Minnesota, it is not easy to get that number of signatures in that short amount of time. And so what Jay described is a significant grassroots effort that was needed to get done.

[00:22:43] And so you will sometimes hear about Republicans and Democrats that file for office, that do file by petition, which is meaning they go out and get the signatures. It is a nerve-wracking process. And so for Jay's campaign to get 2,000 signatures in that amount of time frame, which was also over Memorial Day weekend and part of that time, that's not a small feat.

[00:23:07] But then coupled with the fact that you just can't get 2,000, you got to get a little bit more because in the verification process, correct me if I'm wrong, Jay, they might come to the realization that, so if you turn in 2,000 and let's say, because people sometimes don't know, they may not be, there may be people sign things and they might not understand exactly what it is. You got to have a buffer in there. And so it can be pretty nerve-wracking.

[00:23:34] I don't think that I've ever advised a candidate to ever do the signature process because it's so stressful for the campaign. It's kind of a stress test for the campaign to see if they can get it accomplished. And then you got to get a few hundred extra just in case some names get lopped off. And so my compliments to you for organizing that because, and to our listeners, I just want to say that is significant.

[00:24:02] That is a significant grassroots organizational checkmark that Jay's campaign was able to accomplish. So kudos for you for doing that. Oh, thank you. And I truly couldn't have done it without the great team behind me. We have some experience, some true experience within the Forward Independence Party. And we just, we put together a good team. Here's the things that I did. I'll tell you, man, I went to the Saints game. I stood outside the Saints game.

[00:24:31] I stood outside the Twins game. I went to Como Park and I stood outside the gate at Como Park. It's people were coming in and going out. I was trying to grab as many signatures as I could. I went to car events. So people were sitting there at car events and I could just walk up to them and have a conversation and say, hey, would you like to sign this? Because they were static in their locations. So they weren't in a rush to get one place or another. I also did a campaign through technology.

[00:24:58] And what we did is we filled out the PDF forms. I put the links on our website. And people could go in, download the form, print it out, sign it, mail it back to me. And about 20% of those signatures that we were returned with their wet signatures on them, which was required, came through the mail from all over the state from doing that push. So that's a way that we had to do.

[00:25:26] We had to use technology and we had to start thinking outside the box, which is something most folks hadn't even thought of in the past. So we really leveraged that opportunity that we had. Kudos to you. Again, that's not a small feat.

[00:25:39] And as someone who's worked on campaigns, advised campaigns, I think the, as you were describing this and talking about the story, I think the most that I've ever done is, is we have had campaigns like pay the filing fee, but also do the, just in case there's an issue with the signatures. But to literally go that route and have that be the only route for ballot access, I think is a testament to an organizational significance. I'd like to get your opinion.

[00:26:06] Do you think Minnesota's laws should be changed about ballot access for independence party candidates or third party candidates? Yes, absolutely. So I've been talking to, to Chip, who's running for secretary of state. We've had some conversations about this specific issue. The ballot access piece for a statewide election, it's much, it's very, very difficult to get 2000 signatures granted.

[00:26:31] However, we have over 3 million potential voters, right? So 2000 into 3 million doesn't seem like a great big ask. The real challenge that I would really like to see is at the more Senate district levels, House district levels, where they are required to have so many more per voter. Right? So say for instance, the smaller districts that are more rural, it's almost impossible for them to get the 500 signatures that they need.

[00:27:00] Like that needs to be read. That needs to be adjusted. We actually had a candidate that we had endorsed down towards the Rochester area. His name is Hutch. And he turned in like 543 signatures and they rejected like 50 of them. So he was like, he was short, you know? So he didn't get on the ballot, but he had turned in like over 500.

[00:27:25] And so, yeah, so that's challenging in a smaller district like that, in a more rural area to have that third party access is very challenging. So I'd like to see some, some things happen there. We'll see what happens. You know, the Secretary of State now, Steve Simon, I hope he's open to having those discussions with other folks and just reevaluating that process so that it isn't so gatekeeped by the two major parties.

[00:27:52] What would be a basis for, and explain to our listeners, if you have some examples, what would be the basis for someone's name being removed? Don't live in the district? I mean, their name not being qualified to sign it. Like they don't live in the district. What would be the other reasons? Illegible. I couldn't read it. So when many of the ones that I turned in, I had already gone through my list before I got my final numbers.

[00:28:17] And when I reported back, we had these meetings over and over again throughout the two-week period to just get updated numbers on seeing where we're at. And I was always removing those that I felt were illegible for specific reasons, you know, or sometimes while you're out and about. And for instance, I was at, you know, outside Como Zoo. Some folks would stop and sign the petition, not realizing that you had to be from Minnesota. So some folks were traveling from Wisconsin. They'd sign it.

[00:28:47] Well, I can't really use that one, but I wasn't going to tell them in the moment. What we did is we just, you know, we just moved on. And so some of those, sometimes it's just not even in the district or in the state. And it's really disappointing that there isn't a better process for that. And here's the other problem that we have. It's not digitally done. It's all wet signatures. You have to have a person face-to-face conversation with these folks and to have their signature. And a lot of people don't want to do that.

[00:29:14] And the information that they're asking for their name and address and all that other stuff, people don't want to give that information out to just some stranger sitting outside. So we have to come up with a better system that makes sense for all Minnesotans in order to give them the voices that they truly deserve. Correct. And for our listeners, a wet signature means you have to sign it with a pen. And, you know, you got to sign it. It's not like everything is digital these days. Internet's on the computer. And we're scanning and we're scanning.

[00:29:43] And you can't just do it with a stylus on an iPad. You got to do it with a wet signature. Yeah, it has to be in person. It has to be wet. And then the other thing is, too, you know, they couldn't just sign it at home, take a picture of it and send it to me or scan it and send it to me. I had to have the true original documentation to be sent in. So we turned in 502 pages with 2,660 signatures. That's fantastic work.

[00:30:10] Jay, state auditor, of all the races you could have run for, you ran for state auditor. Why did you hone in on that race? So I have a data analytics background. And from the military and then some on the civilian side, too, since being retired. When I found out that Auditor Blaha was not going to be running for re-election, I reached out to her personally and wanted to have a conversation with her.

[00:30:39] And she was so gracious in having that conversation with me just to entertain the thought that I wanted her perspective on if an independent would have a viable opportunity in Minnesota with my background. And after that conversation, we talked for over an hour, probably an hour, 15 minutes. And she encouraged me to do it. And so with her encouragement, I did. Knowing that she wasn't going to be able to endorse me or say, you know, have any push in my campaign.

[00:31:08] I just wanted to know if a data analyst made sense for that role versus what has currently ever been in that role, which are a myriad of different people. It could be a teacher. It could be a lawyer. It could be anybody. Right. Anybody's qualified for that job, according to what the Constitution says, you don't have to have a CPA to do it or be an accountant or be a data analyst or be a doctor. You could be anything. And so I thought, well, what if this role had something a little different for a change? And she was all on board.

[00:31:39] And what she told me, and she would be okay with me telling everybody this, if she were to run for a third term, she would probably run as an independent. Wow. So she thinks that this is the time to do that. So I was encouraged by that. And so this role fit my character. It fits my skill set. It fits all the tools that I got in my toolkit.

[00:32:01] And so I thought this is a great opportunity for me to really come in and shine, given that there's never been a data analyst in this role. There's never been an independent elected into that position. So let's change the trajectory of that office and make it a 21st century office. So that's my goal. You are talking a lot about it's not about red or blue. It's about green.

[00:32:24] It's about taxpayer dollars, which I think is a good way to kind of label red being Republicans, blue being Democrats. And it's about the green and focused on that. What would be some of the things? Obviously, one of the most. The reason why I think this race is so critical is because of matters relating to fraud. Fraud has consumed the news. It's going to be one of the most dominant topics in the race for any race legislature, statewide office, other things.

[00:32:53] Explain to me how about describe to me about how your approach on matters relating to fraud and what the state auditor's office can do within their roles and responsibility puts this state in a better position to tackle matters of waste, fraud and abuse. So as a data analyst, I have a proactive approach to our reactive systems. Right now, they have a system of which just is an auditing system and oversight system.

[00:33:20] And so the cities and counties and townships don't necessarily have to have their audits done from the state auditor. They can have them done at a private organization, then have that documentation sent to the state auditor for review and oversight, making sure that everything aligns and matches.

[00:33:39] Well, my goal is to bring, like I said, the proactive approach to it by creating an input system of which the local entities can enter in their data, their revenues and their expenditures into a form online digitally. We can export that data and create data dashboards through background information which is created.

[00:34:04] This is the same thing that I did when I was at the Defense Health Agency when I created the data dashboard for the COVID-19 stuff. So what we did is we created, which is called a, it's similar to a survey system. So you walk through, you create question A, expenditure this, expenditure that, expenditure this. And based on your input, it specifically will branch off to whatever is required data based on your entries.

[00:34:33] So my goal then is to create it specific for all organizations throughout the state that would be reporting to the state auditor's office and then ingest that into a, or export it, put it into a data dashboard so that it's visible and transparent to Minnesotans, whoever wants it.

[00:34:53] It could be, it could be news folks, it could be people just on, you know, doing podcasts if they want to do a specific deep dive at an individual throughout Minnesota who's interested in their data. That's what we want to do. We want to bring transparency to every bit of data. So, and then we're going to track the trends throughout time. So if it flags, for example, over the last five years, all of a sudden you have a data entry of an expenditure that spikes 15 or 20%, we need to do a dig in right now.

[00:35:21] We shouldn't be waiting until the end of the year when they send this report in to the state auditor's office. That's too late. You're behind the eight ball. It needs to be an immediate entry where we can investigate upfront. And it may just be a simple data entry error, but there might be something nefarious going on as well. But we need to get to the bottom of it and we need to be, we need to do it in near real time. So whatever that cadence is, we'll set that up later.

[00:35:45] And I'm willing to work with whomever's in office from the chief executive of the state, being the governor, all the way through all the other branches and legislature and MINUTE, which is the Minnesota IT system, to create these flows of which we're going to need to do. We need to do this as an entire state entity in order to do this for the entire state. It can't just be from the state auditor's office. We have to combine our efforts and unite to combat this fraud.

[00:36:15] It can't just come from one office. And I'm willing to do that. It seems in one of the issues, those great points you just made, and it seems one of the things that's frustrated, I think, me and I think a lot of people related to fraud is there is this response of we recognize it's a problem. And sometimes there's finger pointing, but also there's, there, it seems to be that this can't get caught. When there's matters related to fraud, it cannot get caught in any timely manner.

[00:36:45] And the question that I'd ask for you in your experience is the bureaucracy of Minnesota state government set up in a way right now.

[00:36:54] And maybe this is something that you could help tackle and address, but is it set up in a way that the system is structured in such a way that there is not a way in which to, in essence, do this kind of substantive kind of real-time fraud detection and have one accountable person or at least someone monitoring stuff?

[00:37:17] Because that seems to be what, one of the things that, that I keep hearing and just to lay a little background, my late father was a CPA. He was a forensic accountant that my old man would, would certainly know how to question me about expenses, report cards and other stuff when I was growing up. And so I kind of have a little bit of that understanding of, and I didn't, wasn't good with numbers like he is. That's, that's my sisters. But I just think that we've missed a little bit of in this entire process.

[00:37:46] And I, and I think this, I mean this in the most respectful way. We don't have a data nerd in state government right now. And you wear, you've worn a lot of hats. You've served our country. I'm certainly not calling someone who served our country a nerd, but we, it, it appears that we need someone exactly like you to come in. Michael, I've been called worse probably today actually. Say again. I've probably, I've been called worse probably today even. We need someone and that's what I think we need.

[00:38:16] And so when I was looking over your website and kind of in preparation for this and listening to some of your past commentary and stuff, that real time kind of fraud detection, which you've talked about. Seemed to be, boy, that would be something we could really use right now at the state of Minnesota. Absolutely. So I'm going to let folks in on a little secret that I got going on in the background. So I want to create some legislation before I come into that office. So day one, I want to come and actually I'm presenting.

[00:38:44] I want to have tried to reach out to some other folks that are in the legislature. It's trying to sign on to this as bipartisan effort. Here's what we need to do in the state of Minnesota if we really want to fix it.

[00:38:57] Every single new budgeted program over a certain dollar amount, whatever that's, whatever that is supposed to be, whatever people decide that's going to be, should require the state auditor, legislative auditor, MMB, the office of inspector general, and anybody else who's going to be in charge or charged with the roles and responsibilities of oversight. And auditing of that specific program.

[00:39:25] It needs to be done before it's approved. What we're doing right now is we're approving all of these programs and then secondarily setting up the internal controls. It's backwards. The internal controls and all of the things that need to occur have to happen prior to the proactive approach, again, to our reactive system. If we don't do it before it becomes a bill, it's already too late. Bingo.

[00:39:52] Because the vulnerabilities are already embedded into it. If you don't talk to the subject matter experts that are charged to do these audits and to do this oversight, you've lost. That money is gone. So we have to do it up front. So I'm asking for our legislators, if you want to sign on to this bill, if you want to talk to me more about it, I'm telling you I've already got the bare bones already established. We have to have that and we have to have a unified front.

[00:40:21] If they're coming with a program that requires the legislative auditor to do the oversight or do the audit or do whatever reporting that needs to be done, then they should be involved in the process from the initiation to implementation, from cradle to grave, all the way through sunset. They have to be involved. And if they're not, we're losing. And the fraudsters are winning.

[00:40:48] We have to stop thinking about this as we're just going to push programs out and hope for the best. We have got to stop this compassion. There's poor people that need these services have to have them. Yes. But if we don't stop the fraud before it occurs and completely close those doors and those vulnerabilities before that program gets initiated, those people aren't getting the services anyways.

[00:41:17] So we're not doing any good by doing that. If we really want to protect the most vulnerable among us, we have to start at the beginning. Cradle to grave. That's what our process needs to be. And I'm willing to work with anybody at any level to initiate this, to get it out of there. We have to stop doing this reactive approach. It's breaking our state. Two follow-up points I want to make. Number one, a great point on the compassion.

[00:41:43] I have not heard anyone go out there and say that we shouldn't be a generous state. We are a generous state. There needs to be, there is a role for social services. But you really tied in well, which is, is that when we are, when we lead with our compassion and we, and there's not a level of accountability, what we end up hurting is. We end up hurting the people that were actually trying to serve it.

[00:42:07] And I don't think any, I don't think any responsible candidate for statewide office, not to say that there are some out there, but I don't think any truly responsible candidate can go out there and articulate it any other way. Which is yes, we need to be compassionate. We need to have a support system. But if, if there is no checks and balances, if there's not some oversight in this, we're not helping the people that need to be helped because these programs are going to be misspent. And we've seen too much of that.

[00:42:36] I mean, just imagine if we could recoup all of the fraud that has occurred in this state, which is difficult to do. Imagine how much we could have helped other people aside from just the families that originally, but other people that needed it. And I, so I think that those two go hand in hand. And I do think, and this is a criticism, I think of the media a little bit, but not necessarily the media is it's okay.

[00:43:01] I think to be someone who says we need to be compassionate, but there needs to be accountability. And I think we haven't had as much of a focus on accountability in these programs. And number two, the other point I wanted to make is, as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about like the partisanship that's gone on related to fraud. And what I mean by that is the finger pointing and the bickering.

[00:43:26] And I can truly see a benefit to having someone in that auditor role who is an independent, who is not of a Republican, not of a Democrat. And someone who can come in with your kind of your leadership skills, your people skills and bring people together to work together. Because that's one of the things I think is missing is fraud right now. The issue of fraud has been politically weaponized in a way in which both sides are going to have their back arches.

[00:43:55] And what we need is someone who can roll up their sleeves and come in and tackle it. And I think an independent, someone who's not tied to either of the major political parties can come in and just be that servant that we need and not worry about ruffling feathers in an inter-party process. And so I think there's some real benefits to that with your candidacy. Yeah, you know, I appreciate that because it's important that we remain nonpartisan.

[00:44:24] Because here's the thing, data is going to be out there and the people that are doing the audits, that's not where the independence is. When I say that the role of a state auditor should remain independent, I'm not talking about the staff that isn't independent and doing these audits and reviews and oversight, that they're not being independent. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that it's that follow-on piece that brings in the friction and brings in the partisanship.

[00:44:54] So they present the data as it is, factually, which is fantastic. And I believe that the legislative auditor and the state auditor and their offices have been doing a fantastic job at presenting what their findings are and recommendations. The problem then becomes the partisanship of the state auditor is a DFLer. Well, the Republicans want to do anything but work with the DFLer.

[00:45:24] Because they don't want to become a campaign bullet. Right? So we need to eliminate that piece of the puzzle. And we just need to come together and unify. So it's not about the specific individuals that are in that office who are doing a fantastic job and doing what they need to do and presenting the data. It comes from the outside entities that then make it a partisan issue, that make that role seem as though it's partisan when it's truly not supposed to be.

[00:45:50] And I really think that the legislative auditor and the state auditor have done a fantastic job at remaining as neutral as possible. Even under fire, when they've gone before the legislature and presented these findings, they're taking some heat rounds from whoever they believe is from. And they're supposed to remain as independent as possible. So it just doesn't make any sense to be doing that.

[00:46:11] So the other piece that you mentioned, which is very key, of which I want to present, too, as part of the legislation, is the accountability piece needs to be embedded in legislation, no questions asked. Right now, in any of these legislative organizations, if you've seen the health and human services folks, they said that they don't have any teeth in accountability when people don't report correctly or whatever it might be. That's because it was legislated wrong.

[00:46:39] The bill was written wrong and the program was written wrong. And we need to go back in and we need to fix it. And it doesn't need to be fixed in a year. It doesn't need to be fixed come February when they come back into session. They need to call these special sessions when it's found and go in and eliminate those vulnerabilities on the spa. Let's get to work and do what's right for Minnesotans now. Why does it have to wait for the session to come in February while all of this fraudsters are happening?

[00:47:08] It's been identified throughout the year and the report comes out, but we're going to wait until February. Too late, man. They're still frauding us. So let's go in and fix the vulnerabilities now. That's one of the parts that I don't understand either. But I think that's my naive approach to not really understanding their processes, which I completely understand. I know that there's probably reasons behind it. It's just frustrating as a Minnesotan to see my tax dollars just flying out the door when they have the capability to stopping these vulnerabilities.

[00:47:37] Right now, as it is by closing these gaps, working together as a full team from top down, bottom up, inside out. Let's get to stopping this fraud as a unified team. One of the great answer. Absolutely great answer. One of the issues. One of the limitations, I think, that the state auditor's office has, and correct me if I'm wrong, is you guys can't freeze payments. You can't stop payments.

[00:48:04] What you can do is make the reporting, the intergovernment, interagency communication, the identification of this fraud. But you don't have the authority as state auditor to stop checks from being issued. What you can do is more aggressively. I think what you're pointing out is share the data in a more transparent way so we can identify and kind of crowdsource some of these problems. Number two, do some real-time fraud detection.

[00:48:33] But one of the statutory limitations you're in is you can't stop checks from being issued. Nope. That stopped in 1973. So they changed the office in 1973, and it became two different offices with the legislative auditor and the state auditor. So when they separated that and they became the oversight organizations, it took the teeth away,

[00:48:58] and it made them do more of the investigative piece to then gather the documentation, to then send it to the local authorities, should it be whoever it might be, the local authorities, to do investigations. All the way through, if it's state funding, it would be the attorney general's office. Or if it's federal funding, such as some of those programs like Feeding the Futures, that has to go to the federal government in order to do the investigations. So that takes it out of the hands of the state auditor.

[00:49:26] And my problem with the entire process is the communication piece. If we don't communicate that and educate our Minnesotans as to that's what the process is, they're misinformed, and it's not for any fault of their own. It's up to us in order to educate them to let them know what the statutory requirements are and what those limitations are within the office. We don't have the capability to prosecute. We can't do subpoenas.

[00:49:54] They can't do, they can go in and they can audit specifically if there's any issues. They can do it unannounced. And they need to communicate that with the people in the local areas, whoever it might be at all levels of government. So we just have to do a better job of also communicating what the roles are specific to the specific departments that are being run. You are running for state auditor and the state auditor position holds a pretty unique spot

[00:50:24] in Minnesota history as it's one of the offices that's been a springboard to hire office for other elected officials in history. Paul Wellstone ran for state auditor, wasn't successful. Mark Dayton was state auditor, became governor. Arnie Carlson was state auditor and later became governor. This is a significant position. And it seems that one of the things that I think, and I'm realizing more as we're talking is,

[00:50:52] you have the gift of communication and the willingness to go out there and talk to people. What are, what, if elected, what can you do to raise more of the profile of the office, to have it be more visible, meaning your physical presence, you being out there more, the state auditor having a role? Because again, aside from kind of the statutory limitations that exist, I think there is a natural synergy that can, in terms of the state auditor's office,

[00:51:20] taking a more proactive role in being out there on matters related to fraud. Is that something you're interested in? Is that in your wheelhouse? And what, if it is, what will you do to just be more visible as state auditor, like other state auditors have been? So my view on this is very specific. We should be having conversations with whomever wants to have our communications with us. If they're asking the questions, that means that we're not doing a good enough job in communicating

[00:51:49] what the roles and responsibilities are. We should be eliminating all questions before they come up. We should be educating them in whatever way we can. We're giving them the resources to do it or the access to getting the information that they need. That's full transparency from that. What I envision as a state auditor is one that's involved in the communities at the levels, going to those township meetings throughout the state, being involved with the cities and counties and townships,

[00:52:17] being involved with the firefighter relief funds and getting involved, being out there in the community and having those conversations, being available online. What if we had a Ask the Auditor podcast and you came on on a weekly basis, Ask the Auditor podcast and had the questions and answer sessions that people will need. It eliminates that perspective of, hey, I've tried to reach out to these people and ask these questions and I haven't gotten a response back.

[00:52:46] I mean, these are just suggestions that would help the office and it's not about the publicity for the office. We want to remain as impartial as possible, but we also want to remain, you know, as we have to educate the public on what the roles and responsibilities are. And I don't think we're doing a good enough job in that specific obligation and mandate from Minnesotans. The other part is, what if we worked together more with the other agencies?

[00:53:17] Right now, I don't know if the state auditor and legislative auditor truly work together because I think it's mandated in statute that they really don't, that they have these siloed approaches. But what if we knew that they were a unified front in combating this fraud? Maybe that's an option too. Maybe it's a three-headed monster with the Office of Inspector General, legislative auditor, and the state auditor combining at some point

[00:53:47] for a team unified effort to combat this fraud where it's needed. And they just have a unified front. We should all stand on the state capitol steps together and tell Minnesotans that we have their back. And I'm waiting for that to happen, and it's not happening. So where are they? Jay, you don't have a primary, so you have an opportunity to prepare for the general election.

[00:54:13] What is going to be your plan when there is a final DFL and GOP candidate for state auditor? Are you going to encourage debates, opportunities for discussion? What's going to be your approach from a campaign perspective in terms of engaging your opponents? Right now, because of the way that the laws are, we can't engage with them specifically until the primaries are over, like you mentioned. The DFL has already endorsed their candidate,

[00:54:40] and there's no primary for that candidate. He'll go directly to the general election. So there is a primary for the Republicans, and so we'll see what comes of that. I encourage any debate that anybody wants to have. I'm not shying away from anybody at any time. I've never been afraid to have a conversation, and I'm also not afraid to learn. So if there's something that I'm uneducated about or I don't have the perspective of or I'm misinformed about or whatever it is,

[00:55:09] let's have the conversation. I'm here to learn. I don't know everything about everything. I'm not going to pretend that I do. I'm not going to give the false impression that I do. I'm going to come at this with an open mind and an open thought process to giving Minnesotans whatever knowledge that I have, and I would hope that they would do the same. Minnesotans deserve to have the best candidate that fits their values and their morals and who's going to represent them as individuals

[00:55:38] and not represent a specific party, so to speak, and have any ideology get in the way of the specific role. We have to get away from that. Candidate time is precious between now and election day. It is a finite. It is not something that anyone gets to buy extra time of. You did mention you had a twin brother, though. Any chance? I mean, you could be at two places at once then. Just to say, you know, be a parade in Worthington and then simultaneously a Jay Reeves for state auditor is up in Cook County.

[00:56:08] That might be something to think about. I know you're running, look, you're running to be an honest, good servant, but I got to tell you something. If I had a twin brother and I was interested in politics, I might be in two places at once. You know, that thought has crossed our minds. No, we've only switched positions. We've only switched and confused folks one time in our entire lives, and that was in fourth grade to a teacher at Dayton's Block Elementary when we were there.

[00:56:35] And we switched up because the other teachers encouraged us to because the guy, the teacher was retiring, and it was Mr. Raymond was his name. And I snuck in from my classroom. My brother hid underneath the desk. I took, I think I took a test for my brother or something. I deliberately got a bunch of answers wrong. That's fantastic. That was the only time we've ever, ever switched. We are identical. We sound the same. We look the same, especially when he puts his glasses on now. That's great. Yeah.

[00:57:04] So, but yeah, when you see somebody that looks like me out there, it's probably going to be me. That's fantastic. Jay, where can people follow your, where can people learn more about your campaign, follow your activities, and stay updated on campaign developments? So I have a website that's always, it's always in the works. So we're, it's kind of a fluid process there, but that's Jay Reeves for F-O-R-M-N.com. Jay Reeves for M-N.com.

[00:57:34] You can follow me on social medias, on Facebook, on Instagram. We started a little bit on Instagram, TikTok, X. So wherever the platform is, we're trying to get our messages out. Follow me on some of those platforms. Share my message if you, if you would love to, if you appreciate what I'm saying, if you sign on to this, anything that we can do to get this word out. It's challenging as a third-party candidate. And I'll tell you, one of the things that we struggle with is name recognition in this, right?

[00:58:04] So as a third-party candidate, and I'm asked, well, why don't you have a social media presence? It's very simple. For 17 years, I was serving on active duty from 2006 to 2023. I didn't have a social media presence because I was in the military. That's not something I was looking to do. I was looking to serve the United States of America. So now that I'm back here in Minnesota, I'm not trying to gain a social media presence. I'm trying to gain a perspective for Minnesotans that they truly deserve again.

[00:58:34] It's not about the presence online. It's not about a big bank account. It's not about any of that. It's about giving Minnesotans a true voice that they can depend on, that is going to go to fight and go to this battle for them. Not for any ideology, but for them. And so, yeah, I don't have a big social media presence, and I don't plan on it. But I'm going to work my hardest in order to get my name out there, and I need help to do that. So if you can, share my messages. Get involved. If you want a yard sign, that would help. Put a yard sign out there.

[00:59:03] If you've got a busy intersection, let's throw a yard sign out there. Any visibility will help. But if you also want to have a conversation, just a basic conversation, one-on-one, I'm open to having those. My telephone number is on my website. That's not a fake telephone number. That's not a Google number. That's my cell phone that I've had since 2006. So if somebody wants to call me, they can call me. If you want to have a conversation, let's do it. Let's have a conversation. I'm here for all Minnesotans. Let's open it up.

[00:59:33] Let's be transparent. What are we afraid of? Jay, that's great. I want to thank you so much for joining us today. And by the way, I hope you consider coming back. We'd love to have you back a couple more times before the election. And if there's anything, aside from an interview, if there's anything newsworthy or anything that comes up you want a place to come on, you are always welcome on our podcast here. It's been an absolute treat to have you on. We'll make sure to share links to all of your information in our show promotion and where people can stay engaged in your campaign.

[01:00:03] I wish you the best on the campaign trail. And I just absolutely thank you so much for taking time and for your service and all you've done through all your life. Minnesota would be a better place and will be a better place when more people like you step up and run. And I just want to say thank you for doing this, okay? Thank you so much, Michael. I really appreciate the opportunity. Have a great day. Becky, I finished an interview yesterday with Jay Reeves, candidate for state auditor under the Forward Independence Party. I look forward to getting your take

[01:00:32] on the interview when it's released. I got to tell you, I was really impressed and just give some perspective and a little pushback if you, as always, feel the need to, which you probably will. Down ballot, there's a lot of traffic and noise right now. And I want to give a shout out to Blois Olson who's come up with this phrase kind of signals versus noise. And there's a lot, I think, noise right now going on in the, or on TV related to the governor's race and related to the U.S. Senate race

[01:01:01] on the Democratic side. And so these down ballot races are going to be important to give some attention to. And I think it's a service that we could, we could provide to some of these down ballot constitutional races to have them on. And I hope to have more candidates on. But Jay was, I think, I'm pretty sure he was the first independent reform, independent third party candidate that we've ever had on. Very interesting perspective and learned a lot about him, the race. The auditor's race, I think,

[01:01:30] is going to be very significant to watch because of all of the discussion in the state about waste, fraud, and abuse. The auditor's role has a unique perspective, which I learned a little bit about his approach, which I, and I, again, want to get your reaction next week to the interview. But it was also interesting to understand kind of the ballot access, how candidates get on the ballot as minor parties or third party candidates, which Jay's had to do. He's on the ballot. He's not on the primary ballot because he doesn't have a contested primary,

[01:02:00] but he will have a general election, opponent, he will be on the general election ballot against whoever the Republicans nominate and whoever the Democrats candidate is. Democrats have endorsed a candidate, Republicans have endorsed a candidate. A little interesting news about the Republican candidate, about his, some of his qualifications or lack thereof. Nate George, the Republican-endorsed candidate for a state auditor, has had a couple issues in the media recently about his qualifications. I think his campaign has kind of bungled it, but again,

[01:02:30] these down-ballot races are going to be something to watch and it's a great opportunity I think for us to reach out to candidates, give some due attention because I know we care about the entire ballot, just not the top. We also care about what's at the bottom. And so, thank you to Jay Reeves for coming on. Hope to have him on again as we will have other candidates on for other races and it was a good interview. Appreciate his time. One thing I just want to say on this and we can certainly talk more about it as we move forward

[01:03:00] and certainly as I get to react to this interview. But one thing I will just say to anybody running or who wants to run at some point in the future is similar to something both my mom has said to me and something that I have said when I see all of this go on in reality television because you know I love my trash TV. People are always going to find out. If you have, if you're lying, if you're embellishing, if you are just outright making up stories, people are going to find out. If you're lying, I mean, in high school, my mom's like, well, you always find out. Don't, don't lie.

[01:03:30] I'm going to find out. And let me tell you, she did just like voters will, just like this happens. And so it's just always fascinating me when we said, you know, the Santos of it all a couple years ago and just see this things come out. Like, do you think that people are not going to, I mean, if you are going to apply for a job at McDonald's or Target or, you know, as a vice president, don't people check resumes a little bit? Don't you think? I don't know. We can get into it more later. I just had to say. Well, no. We're going to get into it right now because I got a follow-up question. Is your mom available for an interview?

[01:04:00] Because apparently there's some things on the docket. I can get, I don't like to discuss production on air, but I'll just get her number offline and we can pop in for an interview. And tell all my dirty secrets. It is true. Just a reminder in campaign law in Minnesota, it's not against the law to lie about yourself. So you can go, so someone could campaign as being a Harvard graduate, astronaut, and there's a couple things you can't do, but you got to be smart. And particularly when there's,

[01:04:29] when we're talking about issues of fraud and transparency and that's your mindset, no, it's not good. And it gets into a subject that I want to discuss off air more broadly. Not specific to this race, but there's a lot more to talk about on this. But again, great interview with Jay Reeves and Becky's point is right. Don't get caught lying because her mom will find out. Exactly. But now we're going to get into it. We're seeing more polls come out. We are just three weeks away from less than three weeks away from the August 11th primary.

[01:04:58] KSTP Survey of the USA did and conducted a recent poll July 15th through the 20th. And we got, we got some movement. Namely, we're going to talk, walk through the races. We'll start with Republican primary for governor. We have Mike Lindell gaining eight points over the June survey. This also, it should be noted, this was conducted again July 15th through the 20th. July 15th, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, is also when the president endorsed Mike Lindell. So this is kind of on the heels of all of that. And we see an increase.

[01:05:27] Lindell is at 35%, which is a plus eight. Dameth is at 26%, which is plus four. Qualls falls 6% to just 11%, and undecided sits about the same at 22%. You know, based on your conversation last week with Billy and Will and our previous conversations that this was likely where you saw it going in particular and, you know, getting in there, does the sizable bump, how does this play in your head? Does the sizable bump, is it all attributed to Trump? Is it a little bit attributed to Trump? Or is it just where

[01:05:56] you see a movement that it was not, what level of a surprise was it for you? Because the plus eight for me was bigger than I expected to see in this. I think you have to attribute some of it to Trump. I don't know what percentage but some of it you have to attribute to Trump because, again, you'd have to ask yourself what is going on in the race that would attribute to that level of movement. I can tell you Dameth went up and part of the reason I think Dameth went up is because of ads and other work that's being done.

[01:06:26] And to piggyback on a point that you've raised when we were talking about spending for the amount of money that was spent for the endorsement which she wasn't successful is that does carry over to the primary. And so, if she does win the primary, you can combine all of that spending into say that was beneficial to her. So she did get a bump. Lindell did get a bump. Eight, I would attribute it to Trump's endorsement and I think that's a significant bump. The question I think comes down to is

[01:06:55] who has the resources to mobilize for the primary and get this stuff done and I haven't seen it on the ground yet but I did hear that there was going to be some money coming in to support Lindell with the fact that he got kind of maybe some kind of outside effort to come in to boost up his name ID or to boost up the organization I should say, not name ID, but boost him up amongst Republican primary voters. But the poll

[01:07:24] puts him in the lead and the question comes down to does it translate to a victory in the primary? Your take. Yeah, I mean I think very comparable. I think that that is largely attributable to Trump's endorsement. I think people see that, hear that and that means something to them especially when I think you, breaking some of this down we look at the fact that these were not largely a movement of undecided choosing a lane. It very largely came from other candidates quals

[01:07:53] their support moving and so I think that's something that, you know, some Republicans that had already made a choice maybe were choosing quals because of he was the endorsed candidate now see this Trump endorsement and jumped over there. I did think it was interesting that Lindell gained nine points among women. That to me was a surprise and 75 or 17 17 points among 65 and older. Dameth gained 10 points among 18 to 34 which to me that also was a little notable because I see

[01:08:24] some voters in that age bracket of at times there's, again, not mass generalization because there are a lot of really great informed folks of that age range but some can sometimes blow with the wind a little bit too. So like Lindell's a name, Trump endorsed, I see that movement so that gain for Dameth was surprising for me but I mean there's still 22% undecided while it certainly is a big jump now has Lindell at 35 and Dameth at 26. Anything can happen it certainly seems like this was a bump

[01:08:53] and like you said whether that can sustain itself through August 11th and into a victory we'll know in less than three weeks. I don't know and I'll apply this to both the Senate and the governor's primary and the Republican side I don't have any idea what's going to happen. What I know is that I could see a number of scenarios playing out and anyone who tells you that they know exactly what's going to happen I don't think they do but I will tell you that it's what I think it comes down to

[01:09:22] is the mobilization and the same applies when we discuss the Senate polls I'll be consistent it comes down to mobilization because name ID is a factor in the primaries but it's not the only thing so we'll see what happens but I mean I think I always also have like a little caveat on some of these folks that are that Megalane that maybe jumped to Lindell because of this or in my experience of you know looking at data are not always

[01:09:52] you know four for four voters and so it's also obviously always the game of who shows up on primary day and who knows what's going to be going on if it's raining if it's you know 90 degrees out if there's you know some colossal event that happens in the next two and a half weeks which certainly could so I love seeing the polls I love I'm starting to get the primary anxiety though we're getting close we are moving on to Republican primary for Senate Tafoya gained 5 is up at 41% in second place

[01:10:22] is Rice-White at 10% he lost 5 and so on down undecided still stay at about 28 and so we have Tafoya gaining 11 points among men 10 points among voters 50 to 64 and white lost 7 points among women from what I've kind of gathered from this and seeing though those women shares kind of seem to move more towards undecided than just to Tafoya so I think that was an interesting little piece there so we have still 28% undecided in that I mean it certainly seems that

[01:10:51] this is Tafoya's to take and that movement you know her gaining 5 and white losing 5 coming in at 2nd place with 10 but again you can never say you know anything for a fact here's the one thing I'll say about name ID and elections which is high name ID does not necessarily mean get out to vote we have high voter turnout in our general elections in the state but this is a contested partisan primary

[01:11:21] and so what voters will need to do is they'll need to go in ask to get a Republican ballot and then vote and so ultimately you can have high name ID and not have a get out to vote operation and so ultimately I think there is I think there is too much significance being I think amongst particularly some of the online chatter that high name ID in a primary means equates to a strong get out to vote operation

[01:11:51] those are entirely two different things right to think back how many voters in this state are gonna if they're not if they're not connected touched reached out to if they're not if their ballots aren't being chased how many people are gonna just wake up and go to the go to the primary pick the Republican there has to be a program that's aligned with that and I think what I'm one of the points and I'm consistent about it and consistent about it with Lindell

[01:12:20] be consistent about it with Tafoy and others which is yes they're leading in the polls but what what's the backup behind the scenes that's gonna connect the get out the vote operation to make sure those voters get through because we can there are examples of candidates that have been leading in these contested primary polls that end up not winning on primary days so we'll see it's gonna be interesting to watch as being a case study of that I will say I certainly you know stand in the market

[01:12:50] of more of people that Tafoya or not Tafoya I'm sorry Dameth wants to bring in Lyft and I have been getting those texts and some mailers and stuff I've got I think we did get one I think maybe my husband got one from Lindell which again the targeting would fit that so it's always funny to kind of sit from the outside and start seeing you know where some of that comes in what comes in for me what comes in for him and what comes in for the people that lived in our house five years ago that we still get their mail yep alright

[01:13:20] on to Senate I guess this to me was a significant movement that I wasn't expecting I don't know I just we have Angie Craig at 40% she is down one from June Peggy Flanagan also at 40% 4% from June they are still undecided at 16% so there was a five point lead in June that is now decimated we have Flanagan gained 10 points among men 10 points among voters 65 and older the Craig kind of domination

[01:13:49] of the men in that party was something that was notable before this kind of erases that Craig did gain 12 points from voters 35 to 49 also this was kind of something that was a little bread and butter for Flanagan before so that was an interesting thing and you know it's I think seems to be evening out across all of the little demographics where there was a little bit more of consistently being able to say men and older folks were for Craig and younger folks more progressives for Flanagan I think we kind of

[01:14:18] see a little bit of I mean it's tied it's I'm not envious of folks on that campaign and all the work they have to do in the next 25 days no you're absolutely right I think it's it is a I think the Craig Flanagan race is legitimately a toss-up I don't I don't know I don't know one of the things that I've I've tried to stay out of the prediction business particularly since I thought that Hillary Clinton was going to win

[01:14:48] against Donald Trump in 2016 and so I just I'm more interested in framing this in a sense of what would kind of surprise me if Craig won or Flanagan won it wouldn't surprise me and I think we're going to be able to determine on primary night what's happening where it's happening and why it's happening the same applies to the Republican race I can see a number of scenarios I mean let me just tell you very honestly I would be surprised if Tom Weiler

[01:15:18] won the Senate primary I would be surprised if but when it comes to when it comes to the governor's race Lindell Damon I could see a path for any one of them getting through and so it's going to be interesting to watch I completely agree with your analysis and breakdown of the poll and I think that the and this is something we've also talked about on previous episodes is that and I you'd flat out

[01:15:48] asked me I think a couple episodes ago about the about the Senate race on the DFL side and I said if you'd asked me a year ago I would have said I think Craig's got it but the more we get closer to it and I stand by my position that either Flanagan or Craig can win and then there's there's no analysis that shows that the race will change the the safeness of the seat for Democrats will change based on either who the nominee is I do believe that Craig is a stronger opponent and a better candidate

[01:16:17] for the Democrats to run statewide but the who wins the primary you don't know I just I think our job is to sit back and watch one thing I want to make sure we have a conversation of at some point soon before the primary is if we like this is obviously assuming that anything can happen also in the general for governor I'm still you know hopeful we can maybe get a Republican Governor Daymuth but that's just I mean I'm not gonna say my bias or say

[01:16:46] not say my bias but assuming that Amy Klobuchar Senator Amy Klobuchar wins that we also then have from my understanding correct me if I'm wrong an appointment of somebody to fulfill her term before the election to you know permanently or not permanently but for the next term fill it do you think there is a case let's hold that conversation for later I know what you're gonna ask and we should hold it for later yes there's a larger conversation we don't have time today but put a pin in that all right I think this race is fascinating I would be jumping for joy

[01:17:16] every minute of every day seeing some sort of incredible competitive race on Republican sides that have candidates of this caliber who actually can stand behind policies and principles and things that is what I strive to for the future here in Minnesota Republican politics let's hope it can happen attorney general's race this one you know it's kind of always a close one it's calling out always one where Republicans think we can do it but we from June we have Keith Ellison here in July at 42% he lost two points from June Ron Schutz

[01:17:46] is at 38% depending on the rounding it's he gained one or two points there so he's down by just four again 20% undecided in this so this is a Allison had a lead of seven a lead of four is a different ballgame 100% from my perspective yes and I I'm really trying hard Becky I'm really trying hard to to not again we talked about this a couple like two or three episodes ago I don't want to diminish your

[01:18:16] enthusiasm any type of way and I want to also be kind of fair with my analysis I think every election cycle there is what you would call a mirage that occurs where people think it's closer than what it is I don't know if this is in my heart in my mind this makes sense this polling number makes sense that this is a close race the question comes down to undecideds and who can mobilize to

[01:18:45] those people so right now do I think that the AG's race is close absolutely I do there is no question of mine I think I do but where this can become you know as we get farther away from the election we're a hundred and some days away I think 104 or five days away from the election and so if we will this become a somewhat of a mirage and farther to get to but I absolutely believe this number and that undecided and I think the

[01:19:15] race now is to who can get to those undecideds and message but there is a lot of reasons that this race is close and I think it is a close race right now will it stay that close I don't know but that's the best analysis that I can give right down the middle and I completely agree and I think there's two ways I look at that two ways I look at that one obviously Schutz being you know on the Republican ticket and everything of that sort doesn't have the infrastructure and spending behind

[01:19:45] getting those folks out to vote so we have that but we also have Ellison who was a sitting congressman and now has been a sitting attorney general so like undecideds if you're still not sure how you feel about Keith Ellison that's a little like it's to me it's more of folks need to know more about the Republican or might just not vote in this race I mean like there's some weird things that can happen and the lower we get on that ballot this is one that I just you know I see the benefits for the negatives on both sides that if you

[01:20:15] you know I don't think that there's a whole lot of folks in 20 of those 20% that Ellison can really get over to his side it's just a matter if those folks show up and show up for a Republican or not right and so because you just don't have that same infrastructure to send all the mailers to get his name in front of them a lot so I also believe it and we'll see where I like keep saying we'll wait and see and then my stomach just like turns because we're so close

[01:20:44] but if you're if you're Ron Schutze's campaign or you are on some type of Republican organization that's focused on engaging in the Attorney General's race it's a race to the undecided correct I mean that's I think that's the that's where I think that this race is going there is I think one thing that is consistent in these polls is and the question comes down to who can get

[01:21:14] to them and persuade them and I think that's where this race where we're seeing in this election this is going to sound very elementary but it's true it's a simple case of getting to the undecideds and making the case to them to show up and vote for you I also think one thing that's interesting here is there's also because it is closer you know there are people that just have a vested interest maybe not even in Ron Schatz but on a Republican winning a statewide race for the first time in 20

[01:21:44] years right so like there is extra attention here I do think that there's going to be where from what I'm seeing we see Ellison's name tied to a lot more we see Ellison's name tied to Walls' a lot of these different things that are coming up in the news I'm surprised we see just Walls Ellison and not Walls Flanagan Ellison but I have the US Senate race on the Democrat side we had there was July

[01:22:13] 20th big rally here in Minneapolis where we had Bernie Sanders who appeared with US Senate candidate Peggy Flanagan Congresswoman Omar Attorney General Keith Ellison all sorts of different folks from that Minnesota progressive wing it was a many over the money rally that they said Sanders is viewing

[01:22:43] Minnesota as an emergency an emerging battleground for the future of the Democratic Party and potentially the progressives that if Flanagan wins here that is a telling signal moment for progressives not just in Minnesota but nationally do you agree with that take from Sanders do you think that also becomes the next U.S. senator from that progressive kind of sect

[01:23:13] of the DFL well she's the first of she's the sitting lieutenant governor she's been elected twice as lieutenant governor statewide I would say to you I think the biggest progressive test was the election of Keith Ellison statewide as attorney general I remember being and sometimes I'll get asked to go to classrooms and speak high school elementary college classes and speak and I remember speaking after the 2018 election when Ellison was first elected attorney general and when we were

[01:23:43] talking about Trump and Pawlenty had run and not been successful in the primary and I remember because the attorney general's race in 18 between Wardlow and Ellison was pretty rough and I said I remember saying to the class assume everything that Wardlow said about Ellison was true

[01:24:25] he that I think the juice and the energy and the kind of long term foothold that a major party wants to take is they want to cement Minnesota as a progressive bastion a place of where it is a kind of a as they say sometimes state legislators are the laboratories of democracy and

[01:24:57] and so yeah I mean I think I think Sanders Senator Sanders is trying to give I think a hook or a sense of to give a little bit of bite and energy and fight and enthusiasm for progressives to show up and kind of cement that mark I question sometimes the historical accuracy of saying it based on what we've seen elected statewide in this state but

[01:25:27] he's making the case I want to point out two things number one many over the money I think it's an important reminder that we always make the Democrats are burned and so

[01:25:57] I always like as a little reminder to my late father to see Bernie Sanders rolling around the other thing I'd like to point out I mean this in the most respectful way Bernie Sanders has always looked the same age that he is right at First Avenue

[01:26:27] you were at the event what did you think of it of course I was you know I wouldn't miss it no I mean I think your take on this is very similar to to get out and vote I got to make sure that this happens

[01:26:56] you know I think we've talked through what happened in the last year with the Minneapolis mayoral race you know and that big progressive kind of upswing but then lost and then the different things with the city council in Minneapolis having a progressive lock to override vetoes and then not and then you know in St. Paul so there certainly is a jockeying of this kind of back and forth of that wing of the party and I think certainly having a U.S. senator as one of our two U.S. senators who kind of reigns from that

[01:27:26] party I definitely think could embolden more of a future of folks stepping up to the plate and throwing their hats in the ring but we got to crawl before we so we will see how we get through the August primary and what that means but I certainly it is definitely something that that Flanagan and her team are leaning into and I think that this shows that it seems to be working out for them and Sanders being here Warren being here for her you

[01:28:06] is endorsed by the DFL Sanders is a pure democratic socialist and so I think the actual progressive test would be could someone who is a democratic socialist could someone who runs on a banner of not just DFL but DSA banner get elected I think that would be the true progressive test because again I think if you look at our electoral history particularly over the

[01:28:35] last 20 years it's tough to say that the progressive wing isn't represented in our statewide elected officials and certainly are with inside the democratic party there are certainly more on either there's certainly a spectrum like there is on the republican side more conservative versus more liberal and the same with the DFL more liberal versus more conservative so it's going to be fascinating to watch I

[01:29:05] up to that big primary absolutely it's one of my favorite things the democrats argue about and one of the many and again in my biased opinion hypocritical stances in the democratic party not that we don't have plenty on the Republican side but yeah things are moving I'm definitely starting to feel the vibe that we're nearing election day we're nearing primary you know less than three weeks to primary next episode is going to be under 100 days to the election which is just bonkers and again

[01:29:35] I thank my lucky stars right now that I am not in the deep of it because man our friends that are still on either side of the aisle working on campaigns or for political parties you are feeling that heat real big right now so more power to them and excitement is coming I guess that's going to leave and we'll get into it more next week just a preview and I'm doing this because I want to put the mark down to make sure we get to it

[01:30:25] yes I'm so excited about it so we'll talk about that more next week Becky thank you for joining us this week thank you to all of our listeners for joining us for this week of the this week's episode of the breakdown with broadcom Becky before you go show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us review an Apple podcast or on the platform where you listen you can also follow us on our website and across all social media platforms at BB break pod the breakdown with broadcom Becky will be back next week thank you for joining us have a great week bye