A break down with Rep. Elliott Engen on his solution to the Uber-Lyft controversy

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Break Down with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherr. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. And we are bringing you another action packed episode this week, Heavy on the Minnesota Topics.

[00:00:25] We are going to start with Uber and Lyft debacle in Minneapolis and are pleased to welcome Rep. Elliott Engen back to the podcast to help us break it down. We will discuss the policy that led to Uber and Lyft leaving Minneapolis in a month or two and where

[00:00:39] we go from here. Next, we will continue on our Minnesota conversation by discussing Governor's Wall's recent statements on abortion and how that topic may play through November. We will get into recent BPOU conventions and break down the troubling background of one

[00:00:52] candidate who recently lost the endorsement but with whom Michael has some history. Then we will go national and break down former President Donald Trump's comments about a quote, bloodbath. Then we're going to end this episode with

[00:01:05] a possibly one time segment called, Did Michael Break the Law? Thank you for joining us and enjoy the show. We are excited to be joined again by Representative Elliott Engen. Representative, if you want to just maybe start by helping us break down

[00:01:17] kind of how this, how we came to be, what was the ordinance that happened in past in Minneapolis and how'd we get to where we are today? Yeah, that's a great question. So first off, thanks for having me back.

[00:01:29] I really appreciate it. And just to let you guys know, you're the talk of the capital. Everybody's talking about your show and they love it. So I appreciate you guys for

[00:01:37] all you do. But we have to actually go back to last year's session to start out this conversation. The first veto of Governor Tim Walls' career came in the form of an overlift bill that looked very similar to the Minneapolis City Council ordinance that passed last week.

[00:01:53] Stensibly, that same bill that he vetoed would have taken over and left and forced them out of the state because it would have applied even broader than just Minneapolis, the city of Minneapolis. Fast forward to last week and Minneapolis passes overrides

[00:02:11] government or mayor fries veto of this ordinance. And it's completely unworkable because it's 60% over what the TCA agreement had shown they should be increasing the rates of drivers to. It's really forcing the city to adopt unworkable policy for a private

[00:02:35] enterprise. And we know anytime that that happens, it's just not going to be good for business. You're going to be manipulating a market to a point of no return. So Uber and Lyft comes out

[00:02:47] and says, nope, we can't work with this. We're going to be leaving the city of Minneapolis. The city council doesn't care. They override that veto, like I said. And now we're kind of stuck between

[00:02:58] a rock and a hard place where we want Uber and Lyft to stay here in Minnesota and in the Seven County Metro area, but we don't know how to get there because Democrats really are sticking

[00:03:09] to their guns and saying that they want to support the increase to driver pay. But if you take a look at what they're currently making, it's $54 an hour on average.

[00:03:19] So this is a big issue that a lot of people care about from young people to senior citizens who are using these services to get to and from a doctor's appointments. Huge issue and glad to dive

[00:03:30] on it with you guys. Now, before I get into some of the proposed fixes your bill included, I do want to kind of hit on that because I think it's important to note that yes, there is

[00:03:42] the wage and salary issue for the drivers. Yeah. So with Uber and Lyft pulling out, Uber claims that 10,000 drivers are now without a job. And so this is a lot of times some full-time drivers, some people, it's a gig economy, right? A side hustle,

[00:03:58] do it for a couple hours on the weekends. I have a friend that does that exact same thing, father of three and works for six hours to just have some extra fun money for their family.

[00:04:10] So I think it is something that is a really important thing on that side. But one thing that you hit on was the use that some of the counties in the seven county metro use,

[00:04:21] how they use it for, you know, example, there's not enough metro mobility, right? And so there's different organizations that partner with Uber or Lyft to provide their services. And I did see in a newsletter from Dakota County Commissioner Atkins, he wrote that Dakota

[00:04:37] County uses Lyft to help persons with disabilities get to jobs and doctor's appointments. Uber and Lyft hurting leaves that leaving the Twin Cities due to what's going on in Minneapolis hurts more than just the folks going to the airport or the bar at

[00:04:48] harms our most vulnerable. And that was something that I didn't know much about. And I think there are a lot more of these kind of unintended consequences that are really

[00:04:56] going to be a big factor here. Oh, 100%. I mean, if you take a look at my email inbox right now, it is filled with different communities that I really didn't even know that this would

[00:05:08] impact as much as it is. That's from folks in the disabled community who are using this to get to and from a job or a day provider, if they're using it to get to and from work, obviously the

[00:05:21] ramifications when it comes to going out to a bar and getting home responsibly, senior citizens who are going to that doctor's appointment like I noted earlier, or going to refill a prescription. And I know that Uber and Lyft actually currently, like you said, does work

[00:05:35] with counties on fulfilling some Medicaid and Medicare, Medicare stuff. So it's, this is a huge deal. This touches a lot of people 35,000 Minnesotans weekly just in the seven county metro area. So that's not a small number. And to have such a heavy handed and short sided

[00:05:55] ordinance that's going to be taking this away for so many, that's why we did this bill. That's why we're preempting. It's because this is local control out of control. If this was just impacting Minneapolis, that'd be one thing. But this is bigger than that

[00:06:07] because they're forcing the hand of Uber and Lyft when it comes to everywhere else too. I want to talk about your bill for a second. Before we get there, I want to get your

[00:06:16] perspective on what do you think's going on in Minneapolis in terms of the viewpoint of some of the council members who are pushing some of this legislation that really just doesn't have an impact on the city of Minneapolis, but it has a ripple effect across the rest

[00:06:30] of the state. So there's a difference between feel good policy and do good policy. And this is feel good policy with the exact opposite of do good results. This is going to have this is going to have horrible impacts on everybody. They know that. In fact,

[00:06:46] I know that there were Democrat legislators up here at the Capitol that were calling Minneapolis city council members and urging them to not override Mayor for eyes, retail, but they did it anyways because they need to prove that progressive bastion that is the Minneapolis city council right now.

[00:07:03] There's no room for going backwards because in their eyes, that's the opposite of progress. But if progress is taking away the service for so many, that's not the same definition that

[00:07:15] I grew up knowing. So we need to take a look at this and hopefully rational voices can come together, sit around the table and figure out a way to keep these services here. But even from Governor Walz's words, I'm not sure that's on the table anymore.

[00:07:30] Let's talk a bit about what your bill does and how there is a potential for a legislative fix about to address this issue. Yeah. So the bill is pretty simple. It's four lines long.

[00:07:41] It just says that no local unit of government can add or impose any additional restrictions or regulations on a transportation service provider. So Uber and Lyft. This is, I mean, it's a simple fix. It definitely kind of takes a sledgehammer approach to it just says let's

[00:07:58] snip this in the bud. Let's keep those conversations ongoing. If we want to talk about raising rates for the drivers, we can of course do that. But that requires two parties to be

[00:08:07] at the table negotiating in good faith at the same time, face to face. One of them is saying we can't do this. We have to get up and leave because the other one is not having a

[00:08:16] good faith argument at the get-go. This would just simply kind of keep things at bay and hopefully we can figure it out in the meantime. Your bill would then allow for there to be a labor

[00:08:26] discussion about some of the wages without, and that would onboard some of that discussion and provide a little bit of, a little bit of, for lack of a better phrase, safe harbor for these companies to still operate here for there to be some services that they provide

[00:08:40] as Becky has discussed and you've discussed too, just the services that Uber provides other than people going to the airport and going to the bars, that there is a valid and significant public service that both these companies provide. And your bill would allow that to continue but

[00:08:56] yet a discussion further on some of the pay concerns that some of the drivers and other people have, correct? Yes, 100%. We want those conversations to be ongoing but they can't happen if both parties aren't at that table like I said. And you know, overall we do

[00:09:10] have to recognize that there's a different political side to all of this. There are some who have a vested interest in having Uber and Lyft leave. Without recognizing that, we're not seeing the full picture. I know that in the year, I believe, 2017 there were over 2800

[00:09:27] licensed taxi vehicles in Minneapolis and I believe it's somewhere around 300 and some today. So there are people who have a vested interest in having Uber and Lyft leave for their own benefit but is that a benefit or not good for the consumer,

[00:09:41] for those riders, for the drivers who have an opportunity to, like you said, pick up that second or third job to pay the bills and make some extra money? You know, in the gig economy,

[00:09:52] this is really a form of self-actualization. You can go and make some extra money on the side if you want to and you know what you're agreeing to. And if you didn't like it,

[00:10:00] you don't have to participate in that job. But people are telling me every single day that they want that job there and they're scared that it's going to be gone as of May

[00:10:09] 1st. So yeah, it's definitely catch 22. Now I saw when I was reading some articles about this as it was ongoing and then maybe it's the same study you mentioned earlier but Governor Walls had

[00:10:21] commissioned a state report that determined that pay wages should be in the Twin Cities to align with minimum wage after paying for vehicle expenses and payroll taxes. So that was an increase. It was an increase of 89 cents per mile and 48 cents per minute significantly less

[00:10:38] than Minneapolis proposed. Is that part of the conversation here when you're trying to factor in what pay would look like or is that just kind of all the tools in the toolkit are around the table

[00:10:50] is what the goal is here? Yeah, I think all the tools being in the toolkits is the goal. Like I said, this is 60% higher than what that task force had come back with when it came

[00:11:00] for recommendations on pay scale. Like when a driver is going to pick up a passenger, for example, they don't currently have a passenger in the vehicle. They're making $34 an hour on average. When they're waiting for a passenger to request a ride, they're making around $24 an hour. When

[00:11:22] they have a passenger in their vehicle it's at $54 an hour. So to say that these ride share providers aren't already providing a wage that's respectful or reasonable, I think that falls flat on the face of it. But if they want to have those discussions about increasing rates,

[00:11:42] again, they can't do that when Minneapolis is simply saying no you must pay something that we know isn't tenable for the company, for the consumer. People are not going to take those rides if they see a four block commute being $60, that's not tenable either. So this is,

[00:12:00] it really is just a mess guys and I wish that I could provide some, if I could linguistically make that any easier to understand, I wish I could but it's just not there. All sides on

[00:12:15] this are just kind of going sideways and that's why we just said okay let's do a preemption, we have a solution to keep people at the table and fix this thing but they have to be at the

[00:12:25] table and right now they're not. Where is, so Minneapolis passes, is there any, is there any information that St. Paul's going to pass it to? I've heard rumblings, that's something that they're going to be looking at. If that's the case then that's

[00:12:39] nailing the coffin right there. But the practical effect of it leaving Minneapolis is, May 1st is that leaving Minneapolis that these both these companies are going to leave and it's a ripple effect. So it would only be for lack of, I don't know the opposite of icing on

[00:12:52] the cake but it would only put as you said further nailing the coffin I guess is the phrase what happened is if St. Paul passed in this too? What happens if you're requesting a ride from

[00:13:01] Ramsey County to Hennepin County or from St. Paul to Minneapolis we're just not going to we're not going to provide that ride. I mean that's untenable and a lot of people do that. So like you said ripple effects there's no such thing as good and bad policy

[00:13:16] there's only trade-offs and the Minneapolis City Council failed to look at trade-offs on every side of this. And here we are trying to clean up after the mess. I think that there are

[00:13:26] reasonable Democrats that recognize they have a problem here too but they don't want to be the first one to come out and say hey maybe we should rethink this because it's going to

[00:13:36] create a faction within their own side. The one left hand doesn't know what the far left hand is doing and we're stuck here just saying hey guys listen to us you should bring us into the fold

[00:13:46] so we can help fix this but that's the last thing that Wells wants right now. And again the ordinance passed 10-3 and then the Mayor Fry vetoed it but then the council overrode his veto.

[00:14:00] So we're left here now with the situation with Uber and Lyft leaving by May 1st and a number of concerns and concerns about what's going to happen long term. Talk a little bit about discussions you've had a degree which you feel comfortable discussing them with Democrats who

[00:14:16] are concerned about this because this is a real common sense solution have you had. Have you had any outreach from Democrats about possibilities of there being a bipartisan support for your legislative fix? I intentionally did not even sign my name to the bill in the number one

[00:14:30] spot the chief author spot. I left that blank if a Democrat wanted to take that it was theirs for the taking. I did not have one reach out. I talked to several members of the DFL caucus on

[00:14:41] the floor in the house and it seemed like something that they didn't want to touch and that's not leading that's not governing. I wish that we could have those conversations and find a way to make this a bipartisan solution but there doesn't seem to be much appetite

[00:14:58] right now for that. If your legislative fix does not become part of the solution Uber and Lyft leave what's the transportation kind of the non-taxi transportation services in Minnesota that exist and are there all other alternatives being discussed to address this problem

[00:15:18] other than just your legislation or coming up with a circumstance by which the demands that have been asked by the city councilor request are met? I've heard some real wacky proposals coming out of the Senate where they're looking at a potential state run ride share provider

[00:15:34] that to me isn't that metro transit exactly how's that working out yes not so high you're having to remind people not to defecate or assault people on the light rail right now and we don't know how

[00:15:47] in the heck that's going to work when it comes to a ride share provider it's all over the map and I'm sorry to have the government swoop in and fix a problem that the government created

[00:15:56] in the first place is just backwards thinking but again is it about finding good policy or is it about making factions happy there's some senators that are pushing this proposal that I believe they're doing it for their own electoral sake for their own for keeping their contingencies

[00:16:14] happy but not actually proposing legislation that's serious on the face of it or going to improve the lives of any minnesotan who needs a ride share service to get to and from I discussed a minute because this has happened in other states uber has left

[00:16:31] other cities left austin describe the aftermath of what happened and how that issue was resolved at all it was very similar to what we're seeing right now and they did leave and they were asked to come

[00:16:43] back to the table after a preemption was passed they needed to take a second look and cooler heads prevailed but it took some time but they were without those services I know that Seattle

[00:16:54] was in a similar situation they never ended up leaving I think some some negotiations took place behind behind doors and they were able to figure it out but we really don't think that's

[00:17:04] happening in this situation if it is Governor Wall is sure did a good job of indicating otherwise when he's urging folks to call their Minneapolis their city council members and urge them to to think differently on this that shows that he's kind of out of options here

[00:17:22] and that's what I saw as of yesterday at his press conference have you what's the next step here have there been conversations do you expect other than being hopefully optimistic here is your bill going to get a hearing

[00:17:39] I don't believe it will get a hearing no this is our approach to so we want to have a public listening session where we bring in drivers we bring in folks from the disability community

[00:17:51] we bring in young people we bring in a very diverse coalition of folks who either work in rideshare or use it often we want to listen to them we think that they're going to have a solution more so than any legislator or individual legislator would

[00:18:06] and then that'll kind of inform what the next steps are we'll probably have a press conference based off of the findings of what they're doing and what they're telling us and then we're

[00:18:15] also going to be looking at within our own caucus as study we'd like to bring in some legislators to really take a deep dive as to how the right structure works currently I know that there was one that just recently came out in that tca but

[00:18:26] there's more work that we can do to really show people that we're on the right side of this and that we're using our brains and not just our hearts on this one because that seems to be

[00:18:36] where the issue stemming from in the first place do you think that that it's more so you think your bill won't get a hearing that's your perspective your bill won't get a hearing

[00:18:45] and so if there is a legislative solution that's pushed by democrats on this issue you think it is a right state app that there's a government solution that the democrats propose to deal

[00:18:58] with this issue is that where you're thinking is right now that was one of the ideas that was floated and how serious it is I really don't know even though we can joke about the

[00:19:07] seriousness regardless one of the other potential avenues that could be happening right now is again those closed door conversations with members of seiu and folks who are in the taxi driver business and as well as ride share companies and the city council itself none of that has

[00:19:27] been indicated to me but that really is the only other option here so the way that I see it is either have a solution that involves republicans which as I stated earlier there doesn't seem to

[00:19:38] be any appetite for or that behind closed door solution and that doesn't seem to be happening here void of those two choices Uber and Lyft are gone and if I were a betting man which I'm not but

[00:19:55] Packer off lois he he says that yes yeah he says that he's betting on them being gone that's a disappointing development I was hoping for some more optimism tonight but that's a pretty stark future you're portraying and unfortunately it's probably accurate

[00:20:10] we want to thank you for joining us tonight and discussing your legislation where can people follow you to follow your updates and follow this legislation yeah take a look on twitter I know we

[00:20:20] actually just put out a press release on it if people want to subscribe to the newsletter we do that weekly we want to give folks updates on this you know I've had more

[00:20:29] people under the age of 25 reach out on this issue in the past couple of days then I have really any other issue this is really igniting some folks to say hey local units of government

[00:20:40] matter and who we vote for that matters so I just take a look at any of the socials it's just le dan and mn but always appreciate a call always appreciate an email um trying to serve you

[00:20:51] guys better so let me know where you guys stand on this but representative Angon thank you so much for joining us today to talk about your legislation always fun to talk to your right sir

[00:21:00] always great to be on thank you so much you guys really appreciate it thank you i beg you we just spoke with representative ellen ingan on the uber lift controversy that's

[00:21:10] going on I did expect her to be more positive news but your take on the discussion yeah you know it's hard to be positive with single party control up at the capitol and being republicans

[00:21:20] pulling this bill forward I want to applaud him and and other sponsors of this bill trying to fix you know as as the constitution or you know conservative constitutional small government republican I do tend to like grassroots smaller city-led initiatives state-led over federal you

[00:21:41] know that sort of angle but there is a time and place where pre-emptions need this need to be enacted this is a really big issue and I think it's very short-sighted I don't think

[00:21:55] that the city council members were really looking at the whole scope of the picture when they made this decision you know the amount of jobs lost that's real dollars out of the pockets of a lot of

[00:22:07] 10,000 drivers just from uber that they said you know that's real impact especially you know just I'm sure everybody else is getting it our property taxes are going up you know in addition to gas prices going up and grocery bills going up and so these kind of like I

[00:22:21] said the gig economy these things are really important for some families and to lose that extra income even if it's 50 hundred bucks a week is impactful and the one thing that we didn't even

[00:22:32] talk about with representative engen that I am nervous for and and curious if there are any studies in some of the other cities where this did happen in an uber lift pulled out but

[00:22:45] this is something this is a resource for a lot of people so they don't get behind the wheel after having cocktails this is something my husband and I just went on a date night

[00:22:55] my mom came over and watched the baby and we called an uber not because we're going to go out and you know start taking shots all night but because we wanted to have maybe more than two drinks while

[00:23:05] we're out on our date night and it's a resource that we use leaving our cars parked at our house to be able to do I think that there are a lot of people that might now fudge that line a little

[00:23:14] bit of you know in the buzz driving is still drunk driving and even beyond that and I'm really anxious and nervous about the implications that may come from that without these resources available

[00:23:26] for folks that use them coming home from bars or home from party or whatever it might be so time will tell but yeah I mean it's a bleak little situation we're faced with correct I mean when I

[00:23:37] first heard the news and it's always been part of the discussion I was concerned about the drinking and driving aspect as I've disclosed many times I pleaded guilty to drinking and driving in 2013 I've been a volunteer for the last 11 11 over 11 years on the issue and so

[00:23:51] issues of drinking and driving and safe roads are very concerning for me I have children that just started to drive and so the idea of they're not being that level that additional opportunity

[00:24:01] for people to take a sober cab is concerning I get I understand the practical reality I also understand the reality that there shouldn't be people drinking and driving but the truth of

[00:24:10] the matter is that one of the one of the opportunities that has existed because of the advancement of Lyft and Uber is the ability for people to order just in the situation that you did even if

[00:24:22] it's not intoxicated driving like it was for me but just wanting to go out and have a drink or two and just want to just have that freedom if I was going out in the town which I don't do

[00:24:32] I would you know for a variety of reasons I would want to probably take an Uber or Lyft just for the convenience factor and all things but then when you tack in you know the social

[00:24:41] aspect which a lot of people do there's been a big impact that Uber and Lyft have had in making our roads more safe by being an available service for people just like you described and for a variety

[00:24:53] of people whether they're drinking you know whether they're drunk like I was or they are just you know going out and having a couple drinks and they just want to make sure that

[00:25:00] being sure there's a little bit of safety it really has a big impact and so it does concern me I also will share I was surprised and I did not know the level that counties and others used

[00:25:11] the services to help people in the other legitimate kind of public service role that Uber and Lyft played and so it does have a dramatic ripple effect I've discussed this

[00:25:24] with a lot of people and I also think the damage it's going to cause is if Uber and Lyft are not here it's going to hurt long term the Twin Cities growth and development because there's

[00:25:34] just another example of problems that are here there's a lot of good things going on in the state from the I understand then there's things that we should change and refocus but this is not a long-term success strategy for Minnesota to grow and prosper and it's short-sightedness

[00:25:49] on the part of the Minneapolis City Council and I think it's going to have a lot of ripple effects I do think it's going to be a good election year issue for Republicans to be talking

[00:25:59] about that this is because Minneapolis is all Democrats and although there were three members of the City Council that voted didn't vote for this resolution this that passed and Jacob Frey, Mayor Jacob Frey did veto it it was overwritten and it just shows how out of touch

[00:26:17] the Minneapolis City Council is in relation to the rest of the state and I think it's a matter of pride for many of them that they're so out of step because they want to be that

[00:26:26] shining north star that's going to be setting the progressive policy for the state but it's the direct mentor of a lot of other places in this state absolutely and Representative Ingen hit on

[00:26:35] that a little bit about some of the factions that that the City Council members certainly are trying to keep happy with different policies that they're passing regardless of whether it's good policy or bad policy and unfortunately that's it just a really poor way of governing

[00:26:49] and we're stuck with it let's go to topic number two walls on a portion yes if I may tee this up if that's okay absolutely Governor Tim Walls was on CNN with Caitlyn Collins last week

[00:27:07] he was on the same day that the vice president Kamala Harris came to Minnesota she visited Planned Parenthood in Minnesota and there was some historical context about her visit it was described as the first visit the first known visit I should say by a president or vice president

[00:27:24] to an abortion clinic in that's been documented in American history well and the governor governor walls was on CNN and he said quote I think old speaking to Caitlyn Collins about abortion

[00:27:36] he said I think old white men need to learn how to talk about this a little more I think the biggest thing is listen to women listen to what they're saying we've seen them when

[00:27:48] we've seen them we've seen that when we listen to them they're speaking loudly on this issue and they're speaking at the ballot box your take you know this one I'm actually a little torn on

[00:27:59] I will say I personally you know we've discussed this topic many times and and I am pro-choice while I do I think that there should be you know I'm all about the individual's right to choose I

[00:28:13] think that there are a lot of reasons that it's it needs to be on the table for some folks and and I think that should be I think there certainly should be limitations to it and that's

[00:28:25] my take on it I do not prescribe to the whole factor of men don't get an opinion on this no ovaries no opinion that's not doesn't fly with me I think in a situation it takes a man and a woman

[00:28:38] to to make a child and now regardless of that I do think that men have a say in this I don't think that a man should force a woman to carry a child I don't think a woman should be forced to carry

[00:28:49] a child if it's unhealthy for her or the child I think that there are a lot of exceptions I think that there are a lot of lifestyle scenarios of it not being appropriate for a woman to carry

[00:29:02] that or just their choice the matter do I want it to be a wide wrap widespread rampant thing that women are having in abortions no but I do believe that it is that choice I just don't believe that

[00:29:15] men shouldn't have any say men lawmakers especially because that is who makes up the majority of our legislative congressional seats is men I do love though this is something

[00:29:27] and I think maybe it was on this that I texted you when he was it on this one that I said I maybe would even support him I thought so so you sent me this and I said wow that answer was so good

[00:29:38] it even makes me want to potentially support him because I think it is so important to not that men don't get a have a say in it but they need to listen to women you need to

[00:29:50] listen to why a woman is having an abortion why a woman at 25 who maybe has a job why that she made that decision why a woman at 39 made a decision why a woman at 15 made that decision

[00:30:03] I think I am a firm believer of storytelling needing to be a part of why we legislate and how we legislate it needs to be those stories those are the things that need to be shared on all

[00:30:13] sides I think this is a come to the table and have those kind of conversations but pregnancy is really difficult my pregnancy was really tough I was sick for six of the nine months I thankfully didn't have any real health concerns until the end I did have preclampsia

[00:30:29] it's really tough on a lot of people and to force women to go through that who aren't mentally physically financially emotionally prepared or able to do that is just not going to get us

[00:30:41] anywhere and so listening to women I think is the key takeaway to this is they need to be a part of this and they need to be driving the conversation and they need to be driving the

[00:30:51] lawmaking that is surrounding abortions and that's my take it's a fantastic take and I agree with you I just want to say for a moment I just want to read again I think old white men need to listen

[00:31:06] need to learn how to talk about this a little more I think the biggest thing is listen to women what they're saying I mean I really agreed with what he said but I really

[00:31:14] found your reaction to what he said quite interesting I mean it just seemed that it seemed to resonate that kind of listen to women perspective because I think so much on this it's either night and day

[00:31:25] right we hear so much of the no ovaries no opinion and he's not saying that he's thinking he is inviting women into the conversation I gotta say even in 2024 women don't get invited

[00:31:37] into the conversation a whole heck of a lot in particular an issue that is fully about them and their bodies and and and their future and like I said yes men and and their role in that

[00:31:51] do have a factor there but having a seat at the table is what women want on all issues but especially when it comes to abortion it's difficult to not at least from let me take

[00:32:03] back for saying this is a subject that we've discussed quite a bit on this podcast we had Dr. Scott Jensen and talked about his campaign and how he messaged on this

[00:32:12] and was a big issue in the race for governor and it's something that we've also talked about I also think particularly it's also something we've talked about in making sure something that we try

[00:32:21] to do on this podcast is just to make sure that where everyone gets to speak but one of things we've tried to do is really have good thoughtful discussions about how Republicans in particular could be better at winning over the suburbs and getting more females involved

[00:32:38] in the political process particularly not just necessarily having candidates which would be great but just having Republicans do a better job with female voters at a bare minimum it'd be great if there were more female candidates running but ostensibly what we were

[00:32:53] talking about is just finding a way to close that gender gap and finding a way for Republicans to do better in the suburbs I think Walz's message that he said on a portion is pitch perfect

[00:33:04] I absolutely think it's pitch perfect when I saw it as it happened and I was like wow that's a good statement and I think his ability to say quote I think old men need to learn how

[00:33:15] to talk about this a little more need to learn how to talk about this some more and I think the biggest thing is listen to women listen to what they are saying listening to women yet on this

[00:33:25] particular issue on let me just say this to you as a male I don't think there's any downside to when you're going out and presenting yourself on any issue to talk about how you want to invite

[00:33:35] people into the conversation to invite people into the conversation I don't think it's wrong but on this particular issue I don't know that I would change a word on what he said I think it's absolutely pitch perfect I literally don't know that I could in any time working

[00:33:49] with any candidates or electeds that I work for write a better answer he also comes across and I think because you know while I love him I hate him at sometimes is very earnest and

[00:34:01] honest in this I do believe that he is truly wanting to invite women to the table wanting to listen and learn from women and having them be a part of the conversation a little bit more

[00:34:13] and I think even on this I've talked to my pro-life friends I talked to my pro-choice friends obviously there is a differing of opinions there but it we all need to be having these

[00:34:22] conversations and abortion is a hot topic and it's an uncomfortable conversation to have because it can get so heated but it is one that we need to come together we need to figure out a path forward

[00:34:34] because there is a lot of fear with what's going on in the whole reproductive era realm of things with IVF issues and restrictions being placed on that restrictions being placed on the morning

[00:34:46] after pill I mean there are so many different things that are concerning and I have a son right now but if I had a daughter I have to say I don't know how I would sleep at night because it is

[00:34:56] so scary to think of how many kind of how the walls are kind of caving in on women and being able to choose what their future looks like should they have an unplanned pregnancy correct I would probably give I would probably give walls an A plus on answer

[00:35:14] would you give it A plus too absolutely I mean I've been I knew we were going to be discussing it I've read it a few times and as we're discussing it on the air I can't find one thing that I would

[00:35:24] change on that answer in terms of because it really I mean it's I mean I would call it the best answer that particularly respectfully saying it can he said it old white men

[00:35:38] I wouldn't call myself old but I'm you know 50 and I'm certain I'm certainly white but my point is that it's on so many levels the answer works on so many levels the answer works and it's the

[00:35:49] reaction to it also is it's puzzling sometimes to see the kind of frustration that people had at the answer and it did of course get some people upset but I thought it was without a doubt one

[00:36:01] of the best ways for a male politician to answer a question on abortion and I think the go ahead oh I had a follow-up is that old white men that are upset at his statement yes there's no

[00:36:16] question that the vast majority of people that I see are old or old white men I think yes an old white man that I sense yes I do think that and I've got to say this as a medium aged white

[00:36:27] man it's not unreasonable for us to sit if you play out on some things we don't have to dominate every conversation but it's just a good answer and it's it's simple it's crisp yet it's

[00:36:37] meaningful and it's so good in terms of just and it's clean it's precise there it's just it in and it's on so many levels that works and I thought your reaction was incredibly interesting

[00:36:52] and the discussion points you made on the issue I think is just profound and I'm proud of how you've answered it and I think it's just it really gets into a discussion though Becky

[00:37:01] that we've had a lot on different levels whether it's from the standpoint of Republicans talking about abortion but just in general it's also what also makes it such a good statement is

[00:37:10] how forward thinking it is how inviting it is long term and how much it's a clean answer that really sets him up to move on and talk about other issues because there's just

[00:37:24] from his standpoint I mean look we've discussed this before walls is when he was running for Congress at least was perceived as somewhat of a centrist a more middle-of-the-road Democrat he was not endorsed when he first ran for governor the senate majority leader Aaron Murphy was endorsed

[00:37:41] and so walls ran in the DFL primary and defeated her in the primary and so one of the criticisms of walls was his progressive credentials and something that we've talked about before is I

[00:37:51] think the lieutenant governor Peggy Flanagan gives him some more bona fides on some of those progressive issues this answer is a grand slam in terms of his credentials his progressive credentials and his long-term vision and thinking on this issue it it clears a path

[00:38:10] that I think allows him the opportunity to focus on arguably less divisive issues and since he's kind of cleared the deck on that answer you see you see my point absolutely and just to break it down one little thing further isn't it kind of absurd

[00:38:27] that a statement that literally says white men talk less women talk more white men listen more that is what is like mind-blowing I mean that it's just so foreign from our leaders these days

[00:38:44] that it just is funny that it seems when you really break it down and look at it it's pretty simple but we don't get it we don't hear it elsewhere and so it is I mean applaud

[00:38:55] Bravo governor walls I don't know that I'm going to come around and you know be endorsing him anytime soon like you want to ask me do you want to say something about that yes so you endorsed

[00:39:05] governor wall I did yeah I haven't man I haven't broken that on in like months you haven't no do you think that this do you think in any conceivable way this could be a statement that

[00:39:15] a republican could say yeah I think I mean this is a republican who wanted to seek statewide office get endorsed go through the party process could do they have the freedom to say that type

[00:39:26] of statement it depends on who two delegates when he or she is seeking the endorsement no I don't think that you need to say I am unequivocally pro-life

[00:39:38] to get the endorsement in my mind I think though again if you look at it this is I mean isn't this kind of like Romney's binder for women I got all these women around I'm listening to them

[00:39:47] I'm having conversations I mean that is what we're supposed to be doing when you're crafting policies and crafting your agenda forward of how you're going to lead the state or city

[00:39:57] or country so I would like to think that there is a space on the campaign trail for a republican to say this but I think it would be closer to August to November versus May to August yeah

[00:40:11] but overall you would give it a grade plus a plus before we leave this topic I do want to hit on a couple of the other comments that he made because this is certainly going to be something

[00:40:21] that we continue to talk about as it pertains to the 2024 presidential election so walls did not miss his opportunity to to ding trump here he said look the contrast could not be greater

[00:40:32] Donald Trump has made it very clear he brags about a lot of things that are not true he did not create jobs he is not a scratch golfer he is not in super good shape but he did rip Roe versus Wade

[00:40:42] out he did appoint judges who are taking that away and he will do it again you know again this is not that I'm a Trump supporter you know let's not talk about jobs in the economy and

[00:40:54] bashing republicans on that when we're coming from a you know don't what is it don't throw stones in a glass house whatever that saying is come on so I've got some issues there but it

[00:41:04] is a good opportunity to ding that in and obviously this is going to be the line in the sand that is drawn on a national scale and when it comes to abortion my one question I am curious

[00:41:15] on your take on this though Biden is he doesn't talk about abortion much this is not something that we have heard much from him over the years he is someone you know obviously an older generation

[00:41:26] he is also catholic and walls did kind of give him a little bit of the benefit of the doubt he said that those are not mutually exclusive he said people of deep faith can understand

[00:41:34] a woman's right to make those choices is important what's your take on Biden and abortion do you think he's ever going to be forced to come out and on the campaign trail and say words pick a

[00:41:45] week whatever it might be or do you think he's going to continue to kind of him and how around it and maybe let Kamala take that that's a great question first of all I think the arrival of

[00:41:57] Kamala Harris to the state of Minnesota and taking on what's been described as such an historic visit to an abortion clinic I think is significant I think that I do think

[00:42:08] I'd like to get your take but I'll answer your question fully is I do wonder if there is some generational comfort aside from you know Biden is you know 81 he's Roman Catholic

[00:42:20] he's never been one at least I'm aware of that he wore the issue of abortion that he's been it's been an out front issue that he can that he's talked about in the same level

[00:42:32] certainly that governor walls has and so I do think in an election cycle where it's going to be a real street fight for every single vote I think it's going to be impossible for the Biden administration meaning Joe Biden in particular to not speak about abortion in clear

[00:42:47] precise terms I think that the statement that governor walls has articulated provides the absolute best answer that Joe Biden can have and it's really a case study in the importance of word choice the governor's statement the more and more particularly I talk about here it is

[00:43:06] such a good answer that if all Biden would need to do is just to repeat it and I think he's going to be in a great position because as you pointed out it's inviting women into the conversation

[00:43:18] it's that an old white men need to learn how to talk about this you know a little bit more and you know they need to listen to women I mean as you laid out there very eloquently

[00:43:28] all of the components of that statement make it such a good answer Biden just needs to answer it that way and then ensure that he has that message is spread out and it's a good contrast

[00:43:40] with what Trump has done on the issue where I think something that we have talked about extensively that Republicans that are not united on this issue and so you can you will have the Democratic Party out there once again coming into election cycle with leadership talking about it

[00:43:56] in the clear manner in which the governor of the state did and Republicans are going to be engaging in some infighting and message contrast on this issue and that's the advantage particularly politically speaking and from a messaging standpoint I think the Democrats

[00:44:12] have an abortion versus Donald Trump and the Republicans right now completely agree and last question on this before we move on do you think we've talked about it at about little bit before about walls on the national scale national stage

[00:44:28] obviously this makes sense that he was reached out to with Kamala coming the historic event all of that but by hitting this out of the park does this it just kind of continues to foster

[00:44:39] that conversation correct I mean aside from and as you are take as you pointed out aside from the old white man who may be offended by the fact that the relatively middle-aged or old governor

[00:44:52] of the white governor of the state of Minnesota is telling them to sit a few plays out aside from them their reaction to that he is not this is a home run answer and so

[00:45:01] I think he has answered this in the in terms of the eyes of I think of progressive Democrats and future generations this is conceivably the best answer he could have on this particular

[00:45:12] sure coming from relatively old white male I think it's the best answer that he could have on this issue because as you know for all the reasons that you articulated and I think

[00:45:23] his ability to come out with a clean crisp answer that was picked up and supported by so many people I think is it just another kind of advantage point or another kind of check mark that he has

[00:45:37] in terms of his ability to speak and be seen as a national candidate for statewide for national office it's something that we've talked about before I absolutely believe without any hesitation there is a absolutely reasonable credible argument to me that governor walls is a

[00:45:58] national political figure and should be recognized as such on the national stage it doesn't mean I agree with all of his issues his ability to go on CNN and hit and answer the

[00:46:08] question the way he did Becky out of the park as you described I think is another reason why he is a very well established seasoned and someone that people should keep an eye on as

[00:46:20] a future potential off a candidate for national office all right I'm done raving about Governor walls that's about all I can handle for the day but you did a very fair and balanced job you know

[00:46:30] I try I gotta give credit where credit is due and it was due here you are one thing I will say you are very good about giving credit where credit is due and pointing out when somebody

[00:46:39] you think somebody screws up and you're very good about that so it's great job and by the way I think there's gonna be an opportunity for you in 2026 if you want to

[00:46:48] I don't know let's not get in front of the horse here we'll get out for the rest okay let's move on to the next topic so there was we're in BPOU convention season there are endorsement conventions endorsing conventions all across the state there was one this last

[00:47:06] weekend in house district 57 a representative john cosmic seat spoiler alert cosmic one the endorsement but I do want to give you you have some history with his opponent and I

[00:47:18] want to give you the let's start with you I'm gonna do an interview with you here first off if you haven't seen michael's threads on this m broadcore go find it on twitter acts very substantial

[00:47:29] amount of amount of stuff out there but why don't you start with this individual and how you know him and what you've found over the years a couple fridays ago I was just talking to

[00:47:40] someone randomly discussing kind of the events of the week and they brought up that representative john cosmic who's been a guest to this show and it's just a great republican guest of the show and

[00:47:49] someone that we've met over the years but he was a guest of the show he was being challenged for the endorsement by a gentleman by the name of a rick stiger and I was just stopped in my tracks

[00:47:59] when I heard the name the person who told me this was unaware that mr. stiger and I had had any type of pass let me explain a bit what that past is we've talked about before I wrote

[00:48:09] a book about called the girls are gone about the disappearance of two two young two girls from lakeville two sisters from lakeville who disappeared during a custody dispute they were abducted by

[00:48:19] their mother and there was a group of this kind of cadre of these adults who kind of were involved in the conspiracy involving the disappearance of these girls some of those people were criminally

[00:48:29] culpable and were charged but there were other people kind of on the edges of that that were supporters allies of some of the people who were either criminally charged names named as persons of

[00:48:40] interest or just friends and associates and that's someone who I would classify as rick stiger one night when I was doing some reporting for the star tribute on this case I received a text message

[00:48:50] from someone I thought it was a gag and it was someone kind of criticizing me for my reporting on this case and I called the person on the phone because I thought it was one of my friends

[00:49:01] and rick stiger was on the other end of the phone and he was very threatening on the phone very threatening on the phone made statements that he knew where I lived needed to sleep with one

[00:49:09] eye open that he knew you know people in motorcycle ying and stuff and it was very threatening and concerning it was the start of a lot of the threats that I endured over the

[00:49:19] course of reporting at the start tribune on this case but also writing a book and doing some original reporting on this case the girls were found in part because of the work that I and

[00:49:29] another reporter at the start tribune had contributed to they were found by law enforcement in just an amazing way girls that were found alive their life is moving forward everything's going great rick stiger decides he's going to run for office the same rick stiger the same rick

[00:49:46] stiger who called who I spoke to on the phone who sent me a threatening text who I spoke to on the phone and he threatened me on the phone the same rick stiger who testified on behalf

[00:49:58] of one of the criminals in the case this chuckle had decided to run for the state legislature and I was dumbfounded by this I then proceeded to look up some additional material on rick stiger and

[00:50:09] this guy has a very rough past a very rough past let me say from the onset I am someone who believes in you can listen to past interviews I'm someone who believes in second third and fourth chances

[00:50:20] I'm here because of the grace and goodwill that people have and given me second third and fourth chances and so I'm a huge believer in that here's kind of my rules for how people can

[00:50:29] overcome their past number one you're honest about it number two you learn from those mistakes and you truly commit yourself to having a change past based on everything that I've seen in the court file rick stiger is without a doubt I do not believe without any hesitation he's

[00:50:45] not a changed person and he is the same hooligan and thug who threatened me on the phone the night that he did when we spoke I want to be clear to the listeners here

[00:50:55] the intent of what was the intent of his threat that night in 2015 his the intention of his threat was for me to stop my work and let's talk about what I was reporting I was reporting on the disappearance of two missing sisters from lakeville minnesota the exact community

[00:51:13] that this chuckle had wants to represent in the legislature his intention was to intimidate and browbeat a reporter a journalist someone who was working on this case to stop them from reporting on this because he may have known someone and did know someone who was convicted

[00:51:30] for their role in the disappearance of this kids that's the character of this person so you can set aside everything else that exists in the court file my personal frustration and anger at this individual running is that this is someone who wanted to intimidate me threaten me

[00:51:46] in the course threatened me threatened my family and to stop me from reporting on this case reporting an investigative work that led to two missing sisters being found alive reunited with their family and them now having a an incredibly productive and healthy life that's what rick

[00:52:05] stiger decided to stop that's what he tried to prevent me from that's what the future that he tried to stop from happening that's who he was attempting to bully that's who he was attempting

[00:52:14] to threaten and it's just monstrous that this individual thinks that i'm going to sit quiet i believe i as he runs for the legislature and not speak up about it so in the course of finding out

[00:52:24] about it i put some you know base information that i had known a couple pages from my book i'd put out and some other information but then i went to the court else and found some other additional

[00:52:33] information out and every belief that i had about rich digger just from the interaction i have with him in terms of when he texted me we spoke on the phone and i later saw him in court it was

[00:52:46] validated because he is exactly the type of thug a bully and type of person who i absolutely believe he is and the court record and i would encourage the public to review the court record on mr

[00:53:00] sidger is quite extensive and it shows in my eyes it shows without any mistaken clarity someone who has both a problem with threats violence intimidation this is someone who has been loose with the firearm this is someone who's had both driven drunk and decided to drive drunk

[00:53:19] with a loaded firearm in his possession this is someone who went to a liquor store and left a handgun in the restroom this is someone who is just a careless reckless individual

[00:53:30] and i just have to say in response to that that one more thing i want to add so representative cosmic was endorsed almost two weeks ago he was over two weeks ago he was endorsed on a saturday

[00:53:42] and then a week later that he was endorsed there was some dust up about the original call for the conventions um representative john cosmic is a piece of minnesota political history because he's been endorsed twice in one year for the same legislative district and he was endorsed

[00:53:57] both times before the same seat on saturday this past saturday he was rich diggers showed up at the convention and just got an openly campaigned against a representative cosmic john cosmic was endorsed again let's talk about the district for a second rick steger's candidacy poses

[00:54:14] problems wherever he's running but particularly in a suburban district that he was attempting to be endorsed in we've talked before about the importance of republicans doing well in the suburbs a rick steger as an endorsed republican candidate not only heart hurts the ability for

[00:54:30] republicans to be a successful in that legislative district he's the exact type of person that could impact a congressional district race and statewide race he's the exact type of person that the becomes kind of a punching bag for and gets connected to republican candidates all across

[00:54:47] the state that's how bad his resume is that's how bad his background is and that's how much a problem he has for his candidacy i will say to you that since even since the endorsing convention

[00:54:58] last saturday i found out more information about rich digger which even is more concerning to me the republicans in this state particularly those who supported his candidacy have to start looking in the mirror and understanding that you cannot risk republicans cannot risk in any district

[00:55:15] elevating someone who has such a questionable background as rick steger does i uh try to be very responsible with my words and choose them very precisely i am very confident in

[00:55:30] saying to you that rick steger is in my opinion a very bad person i have had a number of experience with him none of them have been enjoyable none of them have been what i consider to be quality or

[00:55:44] um anything i cannot i do not see whatsoever i'm going to use this word very specifically any redeeming qualities in rick steger that would warrant or could even entertain a discussion into

[00:55:58] him being a member of the legislature i'm at a complete loss to see how anyone sees sees anything else other than a complete and absolute thug which is what he is and i'm glad he was not indoors

[00:56:13] i hope he never seeks elective office again and i cannot begin to tell you how disappointed i am that there were elements of the republican party that believe that rick steger was anything about

[00:56:25] his candidacy should be embraced or welcomed or celebrated he is an absolute bully he was a bully to me and the court record on mr steger is voluminous in supporting my statement that he

[00:56:41] is someone who has a well documented record of violence threats and sheer bullying and i hope he simply goes away now i'm curious while you did he was he asked in any debate or forum or at the

[00:56:58] convention about any of this was it did he have a response for any of this or was he just hoping that it stayed hidden no mr rick steger was not i'm aware was not specifically asked about

[00:57:11] anything related to me he did he did and members of the family proceeded to discuss somewhat spoke about some issues related to his past in attempt to whitewash and in many ways just gaslight the

[00:57:23] public i'd like to share one story if i may knew that rich diger had a dwi in 2020 according to multiple sources mr schiger spoke at the convention and addressed his dwi he discussed

[00:57:37] the circumstance of his dwi in this way he said that on the night he was stopped for drinking it was the anniversary it was his birthday of his deceased son he had been drinking extensively that night

[00:57:49] and he was had gone to wall nearby walmart around a mile away from his house to pick up a cake that he was going to have a birthday cake to kind of just honor his late son it was a very

[00:58:01] emotionally charged and in some ways a very convincing speech that many heard that day and he was stopped he admitted he'd been drinking he told the crowd but he had been stopped roughly a

[00:58:11] mile from his house coming from that walmart to get that cake because it was you know his deceased son's birthday and there was some mitigating factors that involved the circumstances involving

[00:58:23] his dwi that night none of that is true rich diger was not stopped on the night of his deceased son's birthday he was not stopped coming to or from a walmart there's not a walmart a

[00:58:35] mile away from his house there was no cake involved the truth of the matter is rich diger was stopped after leaving a bar in elco he according to police records and law enforcement records and other

[00:58:48] court documents he had been drinking that night at a bar he had been verbally assertive with staff and other patrons of this establishment there was a female bartender who was concerned about working late and closing with mr. stiger in the bar she asked patrons before they left to

[00:59:07] contact police because he was not leaving mr. stiger then left not before there was a disagreement about whether he had paid his bill or not he then left the bar and was stopped he was swerving

[00:59:19] on the road he was pulled over mr. stiger was point one nine according to the police reports when they took his blood alcohol level but most disturbingly he had a loaded firearm in his

[00:59:30] waistband he was well over both the league was he was twice the legal limit that you can legally drive and pass the legal limit that you can consume alcohol in this state and legally

[00:59:42] carry a firearm mr. stiger was arrested and was charged and pleaded guilty to this crime and that's none of the circumstances that he described and there are other stories like this i will say to you that he perpetuated an absolute con on the republicans in that district

[01:00:00] and there are a number of people who left that convention who contacted me about some of these stories that were told and i made sure to correct the record on the the truth of mr. stiger's record

[01:00:10] i will say again there were a number of republicans who i think were supportive of his campaign particularly action for liberty they have developed a real track record in the state of finding unqualified and particularly angry men to support and endorse as candidates and it's

[01:00:29] the subject that we should talk about more down the road because i think there's more of a narrative that we can discuss on this but mr. stiger is not he may meet the legal qualifications to run for

[01:00:40] the office he has not qualified in any way to serve an elected office and any fair examination of his record by any one with an IQ above a ham sandwich would understand that

[01:00:54] notice you chose a ham sandwich not a turkey sandwich correct got it i don't have anything really to add because i consider the ham sandwich to be dumber than a turkey sandwich

[01:01:04] damn dang it got me there okay good one i don't have a ton to add on here i've watched very closely to your twitter threads on this i'm always just blown away when individuals with a

[01:01:19] track record and a background and just who they are like this go through the process and or somehow i mean i guess it is because there are times when it doesn't come out and it doesn't come up and

[01:01:31] it gets to be they can skate in through that but this is why we need to do our due diligence we need to get good solid people this just hurts the whole party brand this is it these are just

[01:01:43] unacceptable completely it's just really frustrating when this goes through i am so glad that representative cosmic was re-endorist is on the path to hopefully serving another term for that district he is a

[01:01:56] great man he is a great legislator we're happy to have him and appreciate you sharing your story and all the information that you found so easily about this man's troubling past correct it's the information's out there the internet's on the computer

[01:02:11] and i have encouraged multiple people just to examine the record and after people examine the record and have conversations with me and not one person has left the conversation said yeah that's someone that should serve in the legislature it's important

[01:02:23] that voters kick the tires on whether their candidates are seeking the endorsement part of the process but this is a longer conversation i think we should have at some point about the endorsement process how candidates are being selected and the tracks

[01:02:35] and the kind of the kicks or the tires that people are doing on these candidates absolutely in for that for sure let's go national you ready let's do it all right so we are going

[01:02:50] to get into i guess now the infamous trump bloodbath comments so trump was at a rally with senate candidate burning marino in ohio this past weekend and there he said now if i don't get

[01:03:05] elected it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole that's going to be the least of it it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole country that will be the least of it but they're not

[01:03:15] going to sell those cars they're building massive factories now do we start there do we need to throw in what he said before that dealer's choice you go through what do you

[01:03:26] think's the best way let me do the one before it and then we can break down how i'm curious your thought if it matters if this matters or if if it does not so those words followed around

[01:03:40] that the president a former president donald trump made against the president or to the president of china who is supposedly his friend but you know who knows he was speaking to the president of

[01:03:50] china said if you are listening you and i are friends but i understand but he understands the way i deal those big monster car manufacturing plants that you're building in mexico right now

[01:04:00] you're going to not hire americans you're going to sell the cars to us no we're going to put a hundred percent tariff on every single car that comes across the line and you're not going to be

[01:04:09] able to sell those cars if i get elected now first before we get into this i just got to say i'm reading this word for words so it's not me fumbling over the words this is just how the

[01:04:21] former president speaks so let that be there but i'm curious your take so when you read it when you understand yes he was talking about the car industry and automakers and what china is doing

[01:04:32] with these factories in mexico and then goes into it's going to be a bloodbath for the country that will be the least of it but you're not selling those cars they're building massive factories

[01:04:42] what's your take on trump said there's going to be a bloodbath is it is context needed is it a step too far a mix of the both what do you what's your take i would say this and working in opposition research context always matters and i think

[01:05:02] that there are a number of statements that the former president has said that are concerning the number of statements that the former president has said that are concerning and so do i think that this is the cleanest hit on donald trump i don't i don't think this is

[01:05:18] the cleanest hit on trump that being said i think that he is incredibly imprecise with his language sometimes i think that his he's imprecise sometimes with his words i also think that he chooses his words very carefully sometimes it's a combination of both and i do think

[01:05:35] that there is a documented track record in donald trump's rhetoric of including this incendiary language that is meant to energize his supporters election conspiracies this is someone who to this day does not believe he lost the 2020 election that is going to be discussed i have

[01:05:59] long said and long believed that fear is one of the best factors to drive people to the poll it's the strongest emotion to drive people to the poll being fearful of something that something

[01:06:09] is going to happen and donald trump knows that very well and so he is going to continue to use this type of incendiary rhetoric now again to be fair and as i can be the blood i think the blood bath

[01:06:22] comet is not the cleanest hit on donald trump but in the grand scheme of things it's a it i under it's not as if the blood bath statement is really out of context in terms of who he is

[01:06:35] overall as a candidate what i feel comfortable referencing the blood bath the way some of the media did no i wouldn't not the way not way all members of the media did some outlets

[01:06:46] i think gave it the proper context that being said there's so much out there to hit donald trump on in terms of his statements again not i'm not trying to be inconsistent here

[01:06:56] he is someone who can be incredibly imprecise with his language but then can also absolutely know what buttons to push and verbally the question that i think he likes to i think there's a struggle

[01:07:07] sometimes of the media as to which is it is he just being flamboyant with his rhetoric or is he really being serious and that's the danger here and so i think that

[01:07:20] that this is this type of rhetoric is only going to continue because this is what he is he's going to talk about this way i think this is going to be a nasty election particularly when it comes to

[01:07:31] matters of election integrity whether the election is going to be held truthfully whether it's going to be accurate whether it's honesty and i think the best tool that donald trump has unfortunately and i want to qualify and say this unfortunately is fear

[01:07:46] i think he's going to tell his supporters that this election is going to be stolen he's going to lie as best he can and create a climate of fear and also distrust about this election

[01:07:56] and so in that way i don't think his statement i don't think it's wrong to overall characterize his rhetoric as being incendiary and unhelpful and unproductive i agree i think you how you

[01:08:11] said where he sometimes doesn't think but sometimes thinks too much i mean he's fundraising the hell out of this right so he knows that he can say these things and then point it back to the

[01:08:24] maga crew his supporters and reap the benefits of it this was pretty bumpy like you said i don't think it is a very clean hit the one thing that was concerning though was after this comment later

[01:08:35] in that speech of the same rally in ohio he went on to say if the election isn't won i'm not sure you'll ever have another election in this country that does kind of stoke those

[01:08:47] flames of an actual bloodbath world war three a civil war whatever it might be he's certainly poking the bear there he is waiting for democrats to jump on that i do want to also you mentioned

[01:09:01] some of his past examples of funny you mentioned that one of the articles i read had a list so i pulled that together obviously january 6 is the biggest thing we can point to with his words

[01:09:10] having action whether it was what he actually meant the intent as far as i understand the law intent really doesn't matter is what actually happens right january 6 he was told his supporters that they he would pay their legal expenses that they attacked a protester at one of his

[01:09:27] rallies he said in september that shop shoplifters should be shot and that mark milley a former chairman of the joint chiefs his staff should be executed he urged the supporters to go after

[01:09:36] the attorney general of new york he after the ohio rally he even said that migrants were poisoning the blood of the country i mean he goes big and he certainly does that with reason i think it's

[01:09:48] super dangerous super inappropriate and does have some concerns of what actually is going to happen because there are so many people like we've talked about in this maga group in the far

[01:09:59] trump world that take these things from heart i mean i mean you see it if you you can watch any of the drama shows that are on abc mbc whatever there are so often a storyline of somebody who is

[01:10:13] mentally unstable who hears something from a leader in in some capacity elected education what doctor leader they hear something and they act on that and it it is really concerning that we're getting there i think personally that candidates and elected should hold themselves to

[01:10:29] a higher standard and be careful with their words words do have meaning again regardless of intent and so that's super concerning i want to hit last lastly on this i do want to share the

[01:10:40] posts that he put on it's called true social true social yes he wrote the fake news media and their democrat partners in the destruction of our nation pretended to be shocked at my use

[01:10:51] of the word bloodbath even though they fully understood what i was simply referring to imports allowed by kirkin joe biden which are killing the automobile industry see i mean he that's actually

[01:11:03] kind of a decent statement i don't hate that but he knows what he's doing i think more often than not he is going forward how can i make news out of this rally today yes anyway and he knows

[01:11:15] we're gonna get covered correct he dominated it was trump in the news cycle and anybody that supports him or is on that side saw that heard it and said hell yeah president that's right

[01:11:26] exactly and he comes out ahead i mean this does nothing to hurt his base it does nothing to hurt his support and he comes out ahead as you very well articulated he comes out because the media

[01:11:37] attacks him and you know he gets to play the fake media the institution i mean it's just a self fulfilling prophecy and again while i think we're both on the same page that it wasn't the

[01:11:48] cleanest hit on him it was certainly the type of content that wouldn't surprise us if he meant because he said somewhat of the same things and this is someone who's throwing out a lot of

[01:12:00] incendiary rhetoric on a very regular basis and and i don't have any concern at all about saying that this is the type of rhetoric that's going to continue in this race that's the what he does he's going to create fear this is going to be a fear election

[01:12:16] and the best way to motivate donald trump supporters unfortunately is to lie in claim that the election isn't going to have merit and i think that this we're going to we're coming into potentially the ugliest election cycle that we've ever had and i think that it's important to

[01:12:31] just remember that you know we're going to be a try to be a a good place to talk about subjects in a very responsible way but i think in this particular instance i think it's fair to say

[01:12:40] we both kind of agree that wasn't the cleanest hit on the president the former president but he does have a track record for saying this type of stuff correct correct and i because i like to balance

[01:12:51] out when i'm too nice to someone like governor tim walsh i do have to call it it was a little disappointing governor tim walsh did retweet a story and said no there will not be whoever loses

[01:13:01] the election will call and congratulate the winner we'll work together to build a more perfect union like patriots who love our democracy now his message there sure nice cute fun um but he was kind of jumping on the bandwagon of of trump saying this i know representative

[01:13:16] herinus go is one that called them out a couple of the other members of the legislature didn't love that he did that i don't think he needed to do that i don't think he needed to step in

[01:13:24] there at all especially because it was to be perfectly honest i feel like it was a staffer who saw this and decided to jump on i don't you know and took advantage of that situation

[01:13:33] and i don't think it was a right step speaking of the law we have a segment that is today that is a surprise to me i have no idea what is coming here but i was requested to add a topic to the

[01:13:50] script titled did michael break the law please explain see are you ready for this i am i hope i am i have no idea okay now i really hope i don't disappoint you i really hope i

[01:14:03] don't disappoint you not on whether i broke the law because i'm somewhat confident that i didn't but particularly what this subject is about and the reason why i'm bringing this up is

[01:14:14] for the fun reason so i told the person that i spoke that brought this subject up to me that i was so confident in my standing that i didn't that i wasn't breaking the law

[01:14:25] that i would ask my podcast host if we could discuss it on the show so this is a leap of faith on my part because i have been told that i am not on strong legal ground and i'll explain the

[01:14:39] backstory uh right now i spoke to a very prominent minnesota attorney this week talking about star wars talking about star wars and this and i was explaining to this prominent minnesota attorney

[01:14:55] about my love of star wars and in particular my love of some star wars films called the despecialized edition of star wars now becky let me start off for a question i don't think we've delved into this

[01:15:07] level of nerdy before i'd like to say are you a star wars or star trek person i'm gonna have to go with neither bob no okay neither have you seen star wars i might yes i've seen like

[01:15:19] one or two back when i was like in my teens one or two there's more than one or two correct you've seen one or two of the movies correct okay great we got great content we don't have to

[01:15:31] worry about this is the rest of the season this is the rest of the year we're just gonna do here's what we're gonna do we're gonna do one episode we're gonna do one chapter of one episode we had

[01:15:39] the rest of the six months planned so don't worry with it so this is what happened so i'm talking to this lawyer again it's fair to say a prominent minnesota attorney i was discussing with him

[01:15:49] and now i should say his prominent minnesota attorney does not represent me in any capacity so fully able to discuss this but i was sharing this story about star wars and we were talking in particular i think the conversation started because there's star wars movie on dis there's

[01:16:02] star wars movies are on disney plus i of course refuse to watch them which you'll hear about the reason i refuse to watch them is because of the fact that the movies that you see on tv

[01:16:12] the star wars movies that you see on tv are not the ones that it that appeared when they were originally released let me explain okay star wars was released in 1977 empire strike back was released in 1980 and return to the jedi was released in 1983 those

[01:16:28] movies came out in their original form in the in their original release the movies that appeared that were labeled later distributed on dvd and blu-ray were not the were not high definition versions of the movies that appeared as they were originally released star wars was re-released

[01:16:49] in 1997 along with um empire strikes back and return to the jedi they were released as specialized editions what george lucas the the creator of star wars did is he added new elements to those movies he changed some things regarding those movies and he added a

[01:17:09] new element a new elements in they are referred to as the specialized editions of those movies they are not the movies as they originally appeared when they were released in 1977 1980 and 1983 they're edited versions and that upsets you oh in unbelievable ways i can barely

[01:17:27] discussed i can barely contain myself how much it frustrates me first of all let me put in context how much it also frustrates the united states congress in 1977 when star wars released

[01:17:38] it won a number of academy or number of awards 1989 the library of congress established a process by which certain films would be kind of brought into the library of congress national archives in 1989 25 films were selected to be preserved because of their value to america and our country

[01:17:59] star wars was one of those films that was asked to be archived congress requested from george lucas a digital print of the digital print of the movie star wars as it was originally released

[01:18:11] to this date george lucas has not complied with the request of congress to provide a digital copy what he did in 1997 is he provided a copy of the specialized edition of star wars

[01:18:24] which is an abomination the year and it was not did not provide the original copy so to this date george lucas has not provided a copy of the original star wars so it could be digitally

[01:18:35] preserved so here's what happened a group of people decided star wars fans normal people just like me decided no they were going to normal we're going to do is what they're gonna do is they

[01:18:49] decided to despecialize the star wars movies there are a number of despecialized star wars movies and so i have so in 2010 i think it started in 2010 a gentleman harm this is called harmy's despecialized edition okay this person from checkle savakia decided to despecialize the

[01:19:12] star wars films and so here's the caveat there's this is where the discussion went sideways what they did is they took the star wars movies in terms they used at that point

[01:19:25] i think the first one that was used was kind of a blue ray edition but basically what they did is they produced using the existing films that are out there that have been produced and had been sold they despecialized them to release them in a way in which

[01:19:40] they're high definition videos what that means is this is that now just this is where we get into legal territory okay now interest to full disclosure you did attend law school for a year and you've been designated as the legal advisor of the breakdown in broadcore

[01:19:56] so this is where the conversation gets crossway so i own just so we set the table here i own vhs copies of the original star wars films i own vhs copies of the special edition star

[01:20:10] wars films i own blue rays of all the films i own dvds of the special editions i also own the bonus discs of the original movies but they're not of digital quality what they are

[01:20:28] laser they are copies of laser disc versions of the movies and if you own all of those the composite of all of those things it is legally permissible i believe without any

[01:20:41] question whatsoever to download and have a copy of this fan star wars film and all it is this it is a high resolution digital version of star wars empire strikes back and return to the

[01:20:58] jedi i have been in possession of a despecialized edition of star wars since they first came out in fact my father got rest his soul who was a cpa not a lawyer he and i sat down and discussed whether

[01:21:12] it was legally permissible for me to own these films and have these my father was of the opinion it was absolutely clear because i own basically all of the underlying films and so no one is buying

[01:21:24] these films they're not selling them on our line these are just fan films and so i was explaining this story i got on a real tangent this week with a lawyer and he told me about any hesitation

[01:21:34] i was breaking a law and i said no i'm not breaking the law i'm so confident that i'm not breaking the law i'm going to discuss it on my podcast now i have a couple quick facts to point

[01:21:44] out to you number one technically speaking i do think it's i don't think we're in a gray area i feel very confident in my legal standing because i would not be openly discussing it on

[01:21:54] the podcast but here's the issue the issue is that the videos aren't being sold they're being it's i have these three copies and i've gotten some upgraded some there's new editions that are

[01:22:04] constantly being worked this is an evolving process there's a lot of people that are working on this good people i've not paid for these films i have not sold them i do not transfer them i do not give

[01:22:15] them away i do not sell them in any way i don't try to profit in any way from these are fan films high quality hd versions of just masterpieces i think i'm on completely solid legal ground i

[01:22:28] will also say the following there's been no in charge related to this at all there's been no concerns expressed no cease and desist letter sent there's nothing that disney the george lucas or

[01:22:39] any of the studios have ever done to try to stop this process in fact there's been a lot of comments made that these are just fans who appreciate the film and just want to watch them in the original

[01:22:51] beauty in which they came out that's all that's going on and this is again not to defame lawyers or criticize it but this is how lawyers just screw up fun again if lawyers ran the world

[01:23:02] there would be no playgrounds and there would be no ladders and so this lawyer inserted himself into this discussion this week trying to give a legal opinion that's no one asked him to give

[01:23:11] and he made it very clear that he thought that i was unequivocally without any hesitation in violation of law which he did not know at the time one additional thing i'll add over the course of my life i have come in contact with multiple agents of law enforcement

[01:23:27] particularly fbi agents and i've asked them about the ownership of these films they've looked me dead in the eye and said yeah this isn't a real priority for the fbi or law enforcement

[01:23:36] so i feel very confident and the reason why i'm going through this exercise beggy because as you know knock on wood i've gone through you know i've made some mistakes in life and through

[01:23:46] the grace of god go thee but i've benefited from second third and fourth chances this is without a doubt the only dangerous or questionable thing that i've done in quite some time i had a lead

[01:23:58] a very boring life okay and yes if you're listening disney george lucas yes michael broadcorp in eagan minnesota has despecialized edition of empire strikes back star wars and return to the jetty and he enjoys on a regular basis and we'll watch them tonight in some

[01:24:14] capacity as he's adding this podcast that's the story so my question to you becky is did i break the law i mean my initial take is yes what your initial take is i broke the law

[01:24:30] because i feel like in your argument is i'm sorry i'm flabbergast you think i'm you so i will explain here you not only do you think i broke the law you believe i'm currently breaking

[01:24:43] the law yes first of all let's talk about fbi saying you're not it's not a big priority does not comment at all towards legality of this issue wow your basic response or argument in the situation

[01:24:57] is that you're such a big fan and nerd and spent so much time on money on this stuff that you should be able to get a couple of them for free i don't have anything free

[01:25:08] how did you say you didn't you said you didn't pay for this despecialized but i own but the despecialized edition are made up of all of these films they put they've pieced together

[01:25:19] maybe i didn't explain that well enough this may change your answer whether i broke and won't all of the what compromise what's now considered some of these despecialized editions in some way are is a final version of star wars empire strikes back and return to the jetty that

[01:25:38] were built off of all of the versions of the film that i think you have correct but let me say that i own all of i so i have owned i have spent more second only to vikings tickets and potential

[01:25:50] solutions for hair loss i've i cannot think of anyone else i've spent more money on than on star wars stuff i'm embarrassed to discuss how much i've spent on star wars jump

[01:26:01] here is some of the reasoning in my mind of why it seems questionable at best do you understand though that i own all the films that there's no new product here well let's say i have

[01:26:12] clueless on vhs and then i have clueless on dvd and i don't have it on blu-ray but i find a place where i can download it for free to put it on a blu-ray disc myself but i already own it

[01:26:27] is that not you're still pirating that film how am i pirating i own it you had to get it from somewhere okay you didn't despecialize it i also go back i didn't pay i didn't i didn't pay to

[01:26:43] specialize it right but this goes back to college life where i may or may not have illegally pirated you know napster and limo air and all of that you know downloaded all of this stuff it's still

[01:26:55] legal it's still free i didn't pay for it i didn't have any part in the reproductive you know distribution of it i will say i i looked up in this the little thing that flashes up at the

[01:27:06] beginning of a movie the fbi warnings it does that leans a little bit more your way it says the unauthorized reproduction or distribution of this copyright work is illegal it does not say the reception somebody receiving this pirated stuff is illegal okay so that's my only

[01:27:25] argument on your side i gotta say it i understand that you put a lot of time and work into this but doesn't it i guess i don't know me i'm really impressed with your i gotta ask though do you

[01:27:39] next to all of these films have action figures too come on i'm an adult i mean come on now let's be real realistic here i just had to ask i have some i have some let me start i have some action

[01:27:51] figures and i have some some started with absolutely not okay i have some helmets some things that i have that being said i just think here's what i'm gonna say to you you're a purist here you want to see

[01:28:05] it in its purest form yes i want to see it in its original form as congress wanted it to be here's the thing i would say you're gonna hand it to congress no i'm not a mandated reporter and

[01:28:16] so i'm not going to just turn it over to congress but i want to just say to you just say use this is that to this date there has been no ability until thankfully the work of

[01:28:25] this vast community that's not suffered under the legal tyranny that you're asking for so if not so it doesn't exist in out there this is something you could not have gotten if out through if without this avenue of this right and i went through okay okay i'm

[01:28:42] going to extensive amount of deliberation as to whether this and i did a checklist and i made an inventory of the things now so you just go purchase if you want it even if you want it not

[01:28:51] purchase it in any way i don't think there's any i'm on your side yet i don't think there's any conceivable way that you can purchase this stuff and again there i guarantee you there are people

[01:29:00] out there who that don't have the extensive catalog of the star wars films that i do that can justify in some way that the fact they only i mean you know i will say a couple things i

[01:29:11] hope i'm not going to put myself on on if there's someone that's going to be charged with this god almighty i hope it's not me okay because if i've just blown up the entire now the person

[01:29:20] behind this he's done interviews he's legitimate he's done a lot of things great work these are beautiful films and i don't again i don't sell them i don't dispense it i don't do anything to try to

[01:29:31] in any way monetize my passion and love for this i will say one last thing is that at the worst i think what this at the best i think it's fair to say is that this is a group of people who

[01:29:41] want to watch star wars in the way in which it should be watched and not through some of the edits and additions that have been done and congress feels the same way because they would

[01:29:51] like this to be preserved and i will just say in closing on the subject when has congress ever been and so i'm on the side of i think american congress that is quite the way to end i

[01:30:03] appreciate that story that was fantastic did you think that was did you have any i mean no idea i'm coming in hot with based on you know based on my track record is did michael break the law

[01:30:15] it could have been a whole variety of subjects yeah i did not expect star wars it wasn't in my top 30 okay now just to be clear since you i want to just make sure the record is clear on this

[01:30:26] do you think i broke the law i am i have reconsidered my initial stance and i do not think so okay good good because if the fbis tipped off it's going to be just don't make

[01:30:37] the guinea calls after this episode so far okay all here all right becky thank you very good one and thanks for going and my favorite segment yes and i think we might have to come back and talk

[01:30:47] about some of this napster activity in college no i think you should do a segment called did becky break the answer there is yes okay yes many times where we're not my college career

[01:30:57] we're not getting into that all right thank you so much again bye but we want to thank you for listening to the breakdown with broadcore becky and before we go show some love for your

[01:31:11] favorite podcast by leaving us a real an apple podcast spotify or on the platform where you listen you can leave a review or give us a shout out on our website or across all social media

[01:31:22] platforms at bd break pod the breakdown with broadcore becky will return next week thank you again for listening