A break down of the upcoming Biden vs. Trump debate

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Breakdown with Brodkorb and Becky, a weekly podcast that breaks down politics, policy and current affairs. I'm Becky Scherr. And I'm Michael Brodkorb. Today we have a shorter more focused show to preview the upcoming presidential debate. On Thursday, June 27th,

[00:00:27] President Joe Biden and former president Donald Trump will be going head to head in the first debate of the year. It is a historic moment as it will be the first time in American history that two presidents will stand side by side on a debate stage. For

[00:00:39] this episode, we will break down how the debate will function and what we are hearing in the lead up to the big event. We will hit on debate prep, both from our experience

[00:00:47] and what debate prep looks like for Biden and Trump. We will break down what to expect from the two candidates and what spin we can anticipate afterwards. And be sure to come back on Friday for post debate recap where we will break down Biden and Trump's

[00:01:00] performance and if our takes from this episode are right or not. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. We are coming to you this week. All things debate. So Thursday, June 27th at 8 p.m.

[00:01:16] Central we will have the first presidential debate. It is a historic moment. It is the first matchup between two presidents and it is just the two of them. It's going to be 90 minutes hosted by Jake Tapper and Dana Bash from CNN. And it's going

[00:01:32] to be a little different than normal. There's no live audience. And that's one thing that I'm very interested to see. I feel like President Trump is somebody who certainly thrives off of that and I think it's going to be an interesting

[00:01:43] dynamic to see how it plays out. You're excited? You're going to watch? I'm very excited. I'm very excited for the debate. Yes, I'm very excited. What was the giggle for? I'm excited. And you're not going to watch it?

[00:01:54] Because of course you're going to watch. Yeah, of course we're going to watch. Yeah, I'm excited. This could I think this has the potential to be one of the most historic. It's two presidents, so that's of note. I think it has that

[00:02:05] type of momentum, that type of momentum opportunity, that type of all the ingredients to really shape and change the dynamics of the race. And so I think it has all the makings to be probably one of the most historic

[00:02:19] presidential debates that's ever happened, certainly in the last 20 some years. We can talk more about that, but I'm curious the structure of the debate. Let's go through that a bit. And the structure of the debate, I think, is quite interesting. Absolutely. And first it should be noted that

[00:02:35] typically there is the Nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates that manages the debate schedule for the year. Both campaigns wanted to go around that and neither of them are under the Commission of Presidential Debates this year, who they've been managing since 1988. So that's also a

[00:02:51] new move. Biden's campaign had said he would not participate in those debates based on saying that they did not follow the rules or enforce the rules during the 2020 debates. So this time there is no opening statements,

[00:03:05] they're going to each have two minutes to answer and the mute button, the lovely mute button is going to be in fact. So microphones, they say microphones will be muted unless a candidate is directed to speak. And

[00:03:16] that I have some thoughts on that. And my initial thoughts on who does it hurt more? Because I think that with there's benefits to President Trump, who maybe can't get himself into some trouble with some of the more

[00:03:33] eccentric remarks or huffs or sighs. But does it also hurt Trump because he can't rapid fire at Biden, get him flustered? Who do you think that benefits more than the mic other than all of us, because we can actually maybe hear answers and get us actual good structured,

[00:03:50] moderated debate. But do you think it hurts or helps one candidate over the other? I think it helps Trump. I think it helps Trump because Trump, I think, I think this is an election cycle. So let's look at the table a bit.

[00:04:04] We've talked about the age of the candidates and they're relatively close to each other in age. Biden is of course older. I would say to you as being consistent, Biden is showing his age much more than I think Trump

[00:04:16] is. And he is a little bit older. I think this is an opportunity, I think, for Trump to come in. And in this particular instance, he is, he's not the incumbent. I think that for him to come in,

[00:04:31] he aggressively went, he went in aggressively at Biden in the last election cycle when he lost and you and I both accept the present, accept the presence, accept the context that he lost the election. And so I think he was very overpowering in that first in

[00:04:49] that debate, one of the in the debates he had with Biden last cycle. And so I think him coming in with some restraint on how he will come across in terms of his the limits and what he can say and do, the

[00:05:02] amount of interruptions, I think benefits him. I think it benefits Trump because he stills getting he is still going to get an opportunity to talk and he's going to have a lot of opportunity to show that style of him. But I think the fact that his campaign agreed

[00:05:19] to these parameters and the level of restrictions, I think is an indication on their campaign side that having him come across as restrained yet passionate that he's coming through and he's showing exuberance and passion, but simultaneously being presidential, I think

[00:05:41] is an indication that the fact that his campaign that fact they accepted those terms. They agreed to them, I think is an indication that they needed to temper a bit some of his previous debate performances. So I think Trump, if he follows the rules,

[00:05:59] I think he will benefit from I will also say even if he doesn't follow the rules, it's going to rile him up. It's gonna rile up his supporters. So I think either way, I think Trump benefits from the rules. Your take?

[00:06:12] Yeah, I like I said, I go back and forth. I think my fear for Trump is with two minutes to read two minute answers and not and having the cut mic so he isn't able to do those instantaneous retorts. My fear is that he's just going to

[00:06:29] sit there and scramble down Biden said x, y and z. So I'm going to take my time just to give smart ass remarks back to the different things and maybe not focus on what he actually should. Because I feel like he's just going to be pent up

[00:06:43] when his time comes to speak that it might just come flooding out. But I do largely think if they're doing debate prep, which we're going to chat about properly that hopefully he is ready to focus on what he needs to focus on

[00:06:55] be able to give well articulated thought out responses. And we actually focus on the policy differences between these two men and less than on personality. But we'll get into that a little bit more. Sticking on the rules here, candidates are not allowed to bring any pre

[00:07:11] written notes with them. This is also something that is a change very often they have binders or pieces of paper they can have their talking points or some things that reminders that they want during that they will receive a pen

[00:07:23] and paper when they get on stage, as well as a bottle of water. They did a coin toss to determine podium positions and the order of closing statements. Biden's campaign won the coin toss chose the podium to the viewers right

[00:07:36] and the Trump team chose to deliver the final closing statement of the evening. Yes, I would say this, I think that this if you're to me this the fact that going back to what I said just a moment ago, the fact that the Trump campaign accepted these

[00:07:54] rules accepted these restraints, extra accepted the conditions of this debate to me it means that they are acknowledging that their candidate would benefit from there being some level of corralling and some parameters on him that they've made a calculation that's better for

[00:08:11] them. I still think that he will take advantage of take full advantage of the debate. I do not expect him I do not expect that he will abide by all of the rules and I don't think there's going to be any punishment or any criticism

[00:08:29] of him for not following the rules. I think he's making up the campaigns making a valiant effort to even try that. The question is, I think what the risk here I think is for Biden, I think that Trump has everything to

[00:08:44] gain in this debate and I think that Biden has everything to lose and just looking at the rules. I think I think they're set up in a way that I think both candidates can succeed and ultimately though, I only think one candidate can really fail and I

[00:09:01] think that's fine because I think Trump if he follows the rules, he looks somewhat presidential to the average that the people paying attention although as we've discussed previously not a ton of undecideds in this race. I don't think there's a ton

[00:09:16] of people that are going to make a determination based on what the debate performance is or what's what is said in the debate and so I think if Trump follows the rules and he comes across presidentially wins, I think that if he operates

[00:09:29] outside the rules and he shows has a Ronald Reagan like moment I paid for this microphone type of scenario. I think his supporters love that energy and enthusiasm. I think if from an intensity level, if Biden comes across as disengaged or the

[00:09:48] enthusiasm level, I think it's that's where I think right now. I think of the two candidates Trump and Biden. I think Trump has everything to gain and it's tough for me to see a scenario where he doesn't come out one-on-one with Biden

[00:10:04] up a massive absence some massive mistake. It's Biden that I think has a lot to lose just on the rules, just as we're discussing kind of the rules right now. So I you know how much I love to play devil's advocate. So there's been some

[00:10:17] criticism that the Trump side and Republicans as a whole have spent so much time hammering down on President Biden's acumen is mental fitness, his fitness for office all of that that if he were to come out and simply be a coherent, well-spoken president that he comes

[00:10:39] out on top because there's just a farther the Republicans have been or the Trump campaign have been hammering this so hard that as long as he doesn't stumble or have some major health God forbid some major breakdown that as long

[00:10:56] as he's the Joe Biden we saw at the state of the union perhaps he is a winner there. I'll agree with that. Yeah, I'll agree with but I think like you said the rules of what I think is going to be interesting is the mute

[00:11:08] button right. So as it's as we're told it is they are going to be muted unless they are asked or directed to speak. I can certainly see President Trump's trying to talk loudly enough to be picked up by his opponent's microphone

[00:11:23] and that could certainly be the case but I feel like he's going to be forced to follow the rules and to your point I think that does benefit his overall as long as he can get some messages apart and get his zingers in there

[00:11:36] and as long as Biden even if he is just a simple coherent president I do think that Trump kind of can exceed expectations or meet expectations of having a good debate. I don't think a mute button is going to deter him absent them being in some type

[00:11:52] of quiz show tube some kind of glass partition where you can't hear them like on a game show. I think Trump will get hurt be heard. I think his microphone will be even when it's off it'll be audible from Biden's microphone. Agreed. I do think the one curveball

[00:12:11] the real curveball is the lack of audience because I think Trump feeds off that audience. 100%. I don't believe Biden does. I don't believe Biden needs that and in some ways I would say to you that I think Biden's speech pattern particularly that he can

[00:12:28] sometimes get tripped up as he is a stutterer. I wonder sometimes with the crowd and the spontaneity that can sometimes make it can sometimes trip him up a bit and so I think Trump really feeds off the crowd and I think that it's a very interesting it'll be

[00:12:47] very interesting to discuss in the aftermath when we just when we discuss this more what the not not having an audience means because I think that's ultimately the biggest curveball is not having an audience because I think Trump just feeds off that not to say that

[00:13:02] Biden doesn't need all politicians feed off the crowd but Trump is it's just his it's just his energy that he needs and not having that be very curious to see how he comes across without him playing to the crowd. And to your point

[00:13:17] I do think that Biden performs better when it is a one-on-one interview or things that are a little bit more structured I think that he like you said he gets frazzled which who doesn't if you start to stumble and then you

[00:13:28] look out and you see all these people looking back at you. It will certainly be a good part of conversation after which we're going to do of course a post-debate recap and chat about all things. I have been interested to see the lead up from the campaigns to

[00:13:42] this week. Trump's team is already taking aim at the moderators we saw an interview with his spokeswoman on with CNN's Cassie Hunt she did get cut off because while Cassie was trying to say how is Trump preparing what are you expecting? The spokeswoman from the

[00:13:56] Trump campaign did decide to just sit there and hammer on Jake Tapper and Bash and how they've treated Trump in the past. After getting cut off from that interview she wrote CNN cutting off my microphone for bringing up debate moderators history of anti-trump

[00:14:10] lies just proves our point that President Trump will not be treated fairly in Thursday's debate yet President Trump is still willing to go into this three-on-one fight to bring his winning message to the American people and he will win. So that right there that's an angle that they're

[00:14:23] playing already ahead of time if it comes out like you said nice and easy everybody gets their time with rules are followed he looks like a bigger man than he's expected or thought to be and if not they're setting the stage that this is a three-on-one

[00:14:37] fight and President Trump still battled through. I do want to chat though about debate prep so you and I have been in situations working on speech prep debate prep it is certainly typically a very long drawn-out days a lot of mock debates talking points having experts come in

[00:14:57] all of the so want to throw it to you here to maybe chat a little bit about what we're seeing in debate prep or what we're anticipating they're doing. I've now worked on a presidential race but i've done a debate prep for statewide candidates

[00:15:10] and i've done it at congressional district levels years and years ago it's i love debate prep i love the debate prep doing research and communications years and years ago it was really fun to do debate prep can be and i've observed and listened to what the

[00:15:26] presidential campaigns are doing right now because there's been some discussion on that i think it's a couple things on the debate prep both sides are taking it seriously biden is been away from the white house he's been at camp david trump has by all accounts doing much

[00:15:40] more debate prep because i think the rules i think require much more work because of the no audience and the rules that we've articulated and so debate prep is fascinating because at the level which i did it years ago you're working with candidates some

[00:15:55] candidates and sometimes incumbents who are preparing for debates some of them would be televised and say you'd have discussions on questions and and how you would how do you stand and how do you look and where do you go and how do you hold their

[00:16:10] hands and you do all this type of prep you go through every decision when i first worked on first campaign i worked on was bosh with his race in 96 against wellstone and i was in it was the first campaign that i was

[00:16:21] involved with debate prep and it was just fascinating i just love the it was there was a debate at kmsp old fox nine and i remember just being involved with the camp working with the wellstone campaign the bosh with the campaign working through the

[00:16:33] communications director at the bosh with campaign just on that debate prep and you get into layout and who stands where and how people are going to you know be addressed and passing out tickets because there was an audience you were able to pass out

[00:16:45] some tickets and have some people there in the audience but the main thing i remember about debate prep having done it you know long ago was just the fatigue because you want to you it's getting to a point where you're it's you want the candidate to absorb as

[00:16:59] much as they can information but you don't want it to be them to be super saturated you want them to have some love you don't want to fill them up with too much and there can be times where you a candidate can

[00:17:10] be too prepared where you can be too rigid and you can't allow for that spontaneity of things that happen it's debates are very nerve-wracking particularly having been done researching comms years ago in that kind of capacity every word that the candidate says but also what the opponent is

[00:17:30] saying is so critically important coming up with those one-liners coming up with those zingers it's interesting a lot of the presidential debates that have happened and some of the vice presidential debates that have that i've seen over the years those type of experiences really

[00:17:46] ingrain in to debate prep i think the michael ducaucas 88 debate when he was asked in an opening debate about his wife being a crime happening against her and he it was very personal the question was very personal and he had a very robotic answer

[00:18:07] is one of the examples of how is one of the debate examples that i've had discussions with candidates about about that type of intimate personal question that can be thrown to them and how they need to answer in a non-robotic way how they need to

[00:18:22] not just they have to recognize that they're human beings and other things that can happen in debates i remember george w bush i mean george herbert walker bush looking at his watch and it was like he gave the impression that he had somewhere else to go

[00:18:36] al gore sighing during the debate mannerisms how what people do how they come across it's so fascinating i love debates i love the debate prep i think the main thing i would say is all that behind the scenes has to end up with the candidate

[00:18:53] going on stage and being able to talk and present a message and so the balance is how do you prepare them without over preparing them how do you still retain the character and who they are and it's a fun process and i love doing

[00:19:07] it again as i said years ago absolutely it's one of my favorite things too one that i really remember is 2014 i worked on mike mcfadden's race against senator al franken at the time and i think a lot of people don't anticipate or maybe just realize how much of

[00:19:25] that prep is not just on the policy and issues and talking points in research but is like you said on the mannerisms and how you stand and if there's if you're conversing with a female moderator versus a male moderator and there's different

[00:19:38] things that you need to take into account how you have your face and if you're responding you want to make sure you're making facial expressions but not too much or the eye roll or the looking at the watch all of that stuff is just fascinating that

[00:19:51] really goes into that and you got to have some of those prepared zingers and different things you want to try to get in which at this especially when it comes to presidential is very largely message tested and they have those things in their pocket

[00:20:02] that they want to get out there it is interesting that with not having the notes that they're allowed that they have to recollect all of those things of making they don't even can't come to stage with their five zingers written out

[00:20:13] yeah and i would say that some of the and i'm sure someone will correct me about this but i think some of the most significant debate moments have been not necessarily not necessarily policy points but have been human interactions and things that have happened

[00:20:29] you think about the fly on mike pence's head you think about again as i discussed george herbert walker bush looking at his watch i'm thinking about the 88 vice presidential debate between loy benson and and dan quayle where benson got in a zinger on him

[00:20:44] again the ducoccas 88 kind of robotic answer of michael ducoccas al gork sighing those type of moments we really remember i think those interactions trump being very aggressive in his physical stance near hillary clinton when they were running in 16 those are the type of moments that i

[00:21:04] think and that's very i think difficult for staffers to prepare for because you can only do so much you can only do so much in terms of getting your candidate prepared but if they walk out on stage and the male a guy's barn door is down

[00:21:19] you can't prep for that or his tie is off or there's something is a miss or there's a button that's off or something i can i remember watching and i remember watching the one for the debates that i i was prepping for

[00:21:33] my goodness i said just make sure your zipper is up and make sure your ties your tie straight or and you go through all that type of stuff and it's just you know who's the most stressed during the debate it's not the

[00:21:44] candidates it's the staff in the room i bet you the blood pressure is probably just off the charts because you're just sitting there and i remember just being i remember back then just being like watching this and be like oh my gosh this is just

[00:21:56] but you live that's what you live for debates are some of the absolute best nights because these candidates are going to be going at each other and this is one of the few opportunities that in a few moments they're going to be in the same room

[00:22:09] and they're going to be interacting and talking with each other and that's just an incredibly significant moment two two comments on this real quick too as staff especially again back in 2014 we often also were doing rapid response the entire time you're watching it

[00:22:24] you have all of these social posts these tweets prepped you have fact versus fiction press releases so that your candidate says something you send out a release to the press backing that up the opponent they're going to spin something you have different things to hammer that

[00:22:39] and so it is it's stressful it's addicting it's fun it's chaos but it is truly just a kind of a wild time what i think is going to be is interesting if what we've been seeing about the trump debate prep here he's still fully campaigning this week whereas

[00:22:57] biden's been up at camp david really focused just on this as you mentioned he is preparing a lot more two minutes is a lot of time and i think that's one thing in a lot of the debates especially if we look back at the presidential which are the

[00:23:09] the primary presidential debates that we saw with a ton of more candidates they obviously can't allow two minutes but we very often see 60 or 90 minutes two minutes is a lot of time for them to say a lot of things but also get themselves into trouble when

[00:23:24] they're trying to fill that time and so it's going to be interesting they have to be prepared fully for that trump's been bringing in policy experts and advisors in between his rallies and fundraisers and so that he is certainly getting in on the issues

[00:23:37] making sure he he chats through everything knows all the know-how so he can hopefully be policy forward the hill reported this week that senate republicans are urging trump to tone down his personal attacks i think they really know that there is a lot to benefit if you focus

[00:23:52] on the miscomings the shortcomings of the biden administration and i think they're really hoping that is something that can also lead for republicans down ticket as they're on the campaign trail but trump at his campaign rallies has been talking a lot about these debates a

[00:24:09] couple quotes i have here is at a recent rally he said how should i handle him should i be tough and nasty should i be tough and nasty and just say you're the worst president in history or should i be nice and calm and let

[00:24:19] him speak and i feel like this is a stream of consciousness for him i really think that trump is probably battling where he falls on that spectrum yes i would agree with you because i think it's very interesting i was as i as we were prepping for

[00:24:34] this and as i was reading more about it the change in the debate rules are just so significant and as you articulated so well his commentary right now in the campaign and listening to some of pundits and others who are close to the process

[00:24:50] that the that trump is there is a little bit more of an unconventional debate prep i think both campaigns as i said are taking it seriously but i can see how this can be a struggle for him so what's interesting about joe

[00:25:03] biden is he's been in office for so long he is such a strong debater um he's very this is his environment this is good i think what's interesting is as as you pointed out that state of the union intensity if he comes out and with

[00:25:19] that in the intensity i think he that's a win for him i do think that's a win for him i think it's going to be i think trump is clearly struggling a little bit with kind of which way should i go because the rules are very

[00:25:32] constrained and i'll be very interested to see how if i'm going to maybe amend my answer a little bit because on who could win in this because if this debate structure makes trump come across if he's not comfortable i think that could change some things

[00:25:51] and so i'll be very curious because there are a lot of constraints on him in terms of his debate style and my assumption was if he's if these if the campaigns agree to it that means must mean that he's okay with it because i think he ultimately runs

[00:26:05] the campaign but if it makes him not comfortable that could change some things and i think that's something i'm going to amend my answer a little bit not because you were being the devil's advocate which you always do a great job of being the devil's advocate

[00:26:17] but that could change because as i'm just thinking this out a little bit what's important is the candidates are authentic and that they can communicate that and again with there being such a small number of undecideds i think that this is somewhat show i just don't know

[00:26:33] i'd be very curious we've talked a little bit about it the kind of the deciders as they're calling them as you pointed out in our last episode the deciders of this race be very curious how this will factor into the deciders because it's going

[00:26:47] to be interesting because i think and so the fact that the trump campaign agreed to these rules it'll be very curious if i'll be curious to see if he will succeed in these rules i guess i'll say it that way and the debate prep shows

[00:27:04] as you very well articulated that he it appears he's struggling a bit and that's not good i don't think i don't think it's good to be coming into a debate and not know what you're going to do now some of that is theater he's building anticipation

[00:27:17] i think he's also trying to get as much as that crowd because he's going to walk in he's going to walk and he's such a circus carnival whatever they carny like running the ring master whatever you call it and so he's building enthusiasm he's a showman for the

[00:27:33] the debate but we'll see i think it's going to be i think again i stay i'll state this again i think this has all of the makings to be the most monumental presidential debate in the last 50 years oh great and i do want to continue on

[00:27:50] this conversation about what we're expecting to see especially when it comes to personality i want to start here by giving one more quote that the former president shared recently and then chat about what we expect with biden's personality and how he's going to present himself

[00:28:05] president donald trump suggested biden would get be given a little cocaine before to enhance his debate performance he on stage said so a little before debate time he gets a shot in the ass it'll come out all jacked up whatever happened to the all that cocaine that

[00:28:20] was missing a month ago now again he's being funny he's being facetious but it is out there claim i think as we talked about it is his state of the union performance but gotta love donald trump for accusing the sitting president of doing cocaine to perform

[00:28:37] at a debate yes and i will if i remember we had said that in the lead up to the state of the union that's the kickoff to the presidential race firstly biden's campaign and if i memory is correct we thought biden did a great job in

[00:28:52] terms of showing his enthusiasm and i distinctly remember saying whatever he took whatever kept because i was exhausted i just stay away i couldn't could barely stay awake and if that's i think trump is adding some specter to i think it goes along with

[00:29:08] the narrative there the narrative is that is slipping that there are some issues and so bring throwing a charge of a candidate taking cocaine boy oh boy it's it never ceases to amaze me advisors have said that they're looking for biden to appear as the

[00:29:25] adult in the room be a little bit more disciplined a little bit more purposeful in the hopes that trump is a little more on the firey versus colm side of things in a memo they put out that they see this is an opportunity to highlight

[00:29:38] president trump's president biden's record and vision for the four years contrasting with what president trump has done and then really hammer home the trump's track record and during his presidency and of course three marks on the campaign trail and we'll get into issues that we

[00:29:53] expect them to chat or to discuss at the debate here shortly but one of president trump's communications director wrote that the american people will see two different visions for the future on the stage in atlanta president bit biden's vision where freedoms are protected in all

[00:30:07] americans have a fair shot and donald trump's dark vision where he will serve as a dictator on day one give tax cuts to the ultra wealthy on the backs of the middle class and rip away women's rights i mean that right there

[00:30:19] pretty much sums up what the biden campaign has planned going into this and if i was working on their campaign that seems like a really the keys to a winning winning message if he's able to execute yes i think that those i think both campaigns are bracketing this

[00:30:36] as as much as they can read me to their act to their base and energize them and for those who don't know bracketing is on the front end and back end of events how campaigns prep and prepare to emphasize and make what happens in

[00:30:51] the middle like this debate better we also have biden that they're preparing for two different trumps they have the bombastic unhinged one for as this article said one known for his grievance filled stem will while winding rallies and is fairly and they're also preparing for fairly

[00:31:09] disciplined version who largely refrains from tirades and sticks to policy they i have to imagine and what i've read and what i know from my past campaigns and debate prep you if trump comes out calm biden's gonna poke him he is going to try

[00:31:25] i wouldn't be surprised i saw one article say that loser is the word that they think looking at trump's past performances and what really triggers him loser is a word that apparently is a trigger point biden it seems is going to try to needle him a little

[00:31:40] bit to elicit some response and fire him up i have to say again peeling back the curtain a little bit when i worked on the mcfadding campaign al franken was known as a fiery individual and that was something that we were that was definitely part of the

[00:31:53] strategy is if you could get under a skin and throw them off kilter a little bit and so i think that's certainly going to be something to see if trump doesn't come out guns blazing they're going to try to get him there

[00:32:05] yes i would agree i would also say that i'd be very i think it's i think it's i think it's going to be difficult for trump i would be surprised if on when we're discussing this on friday if i would say that i thought trump was

[00:32:24] calm the entire evening i think he's just incapable of that agree i don't think it's that's his i don't think it's his style i think that he will needs there to be a conflict i think that he is incapable of having the debate be anything else

[00:32:41] there has to be some personal attacks in there there will be some personal attacks he will attempt it simply because he knows he's playing to a crowd that's not there people are watching this the internet's on the computer now so people are going to see this

[00:32:55] as it happens and even if there's not an audience there he will play to them and i think that's going to lead to there's going to have to be some fiery moment i do not believe i do not believe that if the trump campaign has made the calculation

[00:33:11] that and you had some discussion about senators not talking about the personal attacks and stuff like this plus coupled with the rules i have a very difficult time thinking that donald trump believes that he needs to act more like a politician to get elected i i think that

[00:33:28] he's at a point in his career where he's going to do exactly what he wants to do in the way he wants to do it and i think that means that's going to lead towards him there's going to be some personal shots there's going to be some

[00:33:41] rule violations you're absolutely i think going to hear him on the microphone even when his microphone is not on and i think that i'd be very surprised the word that we use to describe donald trump on friday is calm i'm always prepared to be wrong as

[00:33:56] but i'll be surprised if we lead with he was really calm i agree there's got to be a mix of it and even if it's for nothing more than donald trump gets the game of politics he knows that he needs some one

[00:34:12] liners that they can cut and clip and raise their money off of and rally the troops and get the ground game going he knows that's a big part of his success and so he knows that he needs to have

[00:34:24] x y and z set in line so they can clip it they can put it out they're going to raise i'm really interested to see what their fundraising numbers are going to be in the 24 48 hours after this debate as well but he there's no way he can

[00:34:35] resist and again with two minutes that's where i feel like he's just going to be baited he's going to answer the question for 60 seconds and then he's going to spend 60 seconds just zinging them back lobbing them back whether relevant or not at president

[00:34:48] biden we'll see how that goes i do want to chat through a couple of the anticipated issues that we expect to come up a list that i found some put together some what i economy immigration ukraine israel abortion and of course legal battles both trump and 100 bidens

[00:35:05] any other ones that you anticipate being big topics of the night i'd be very curious i think you know those are the issues i think there's going to be a lot of i think the legal battles is i think is going to be and as you've done before

[00:35:21] it'd be great when we talk about this on friday is to see the percentage of time that's dedicated to each of us i have my bet is that enter back and forth on legal issues is i think it is going to take it is going to take

[00:35:34] a fair amount of time up in that debate certainly certain time that should be dedicated to more substantive issues but i have just a very difficult time thinking that this is going to be an issue-based debate i just don't think i just don't think that

[00:35:55] i think that the i think that cnn wants that i think it's noble of them to want this to be that way but i just don't think that this presidential race is going to be a discussion on much on issues i think that the most

[00:36:12] i think the issue that i think is going to be the most motivating issue i think in this election is going to be abortion i still believe that's going to be of the all the issues that i think are going to drive this election cycle

[00:36:25] in terms of motivate i think it's going to be the economy and i think it's going to be abortion if the the republicans can motivate on the economy and win over people on the economy and how they feel about that i think that's going to be critical

[00:36:38] for them in order to mobilize their base the democrats are going to focus a lot on abortion and talking about those issues and talk about what trump wants to do i also think a good portion of the debate of this cycle is going to be on legal

[00:36:53] issues and personalities trump is going to be dealing with stuff he's gonna he's gonna come out and he's gonna go after hunter biden and so i think legal issues personalities is also going to be a big issue in this race i agree i don't i do believe that

[00:37:08] there's going to be a significant portion of thursday night's debate focused on the legal battles i do think that with the rules in the makeup and if they're able to manage it properly that it is trying to be a very issue forward debate i think that i

[00:37:25] there's so many different things that i think there are to talk about obviously i think abortion like you said is certainly going to be one i think israel is just at the israel hamas conflict and i think that there's a lot of pressure on president biden when

[00:37:40] it comes to that issue and how he's conducting himself and i'm sure he has that one that answer prepped in a nice little bow to regurgitate how he's practiced it because that is one where he could get into a lot of trouble and then immigration i really think

[00:37:54] with the border issues and we're seeing a little bit more from the left coming over with some regulations there i do really think it will be interesting to see if the goal that it appears to be from cnn and for this debate to have it be

[00:38:09] issue-based if it's able to be that way because as we know also that we have to anticipate that the moderators are ready to let the candidate or let the debate go where it may based on how the presidents are responding and how they're interacting and really

[00:38:23] follow up questions along that way i'm hopeful that we're going to get a good issue-based debate but very excited to see how these men conduct themselves and the answers they give where i think it's going to deviate from the policy is on the flash points because

[00:38:38] one of the things is that we discuss this a bit already is you know biden using the loser comment to trump i don't think biden's going to lead with the loser i just don't think that's his style i'm not to say that he's better or

[00:38:51] worse than that but i just don't think that's his style we can obviously look at check the tape and we discuss this later in the week i have a feeling that's going to come in response to something if he does that

[00:39:01] and so i think it's going to that's going to deviate very quickly into that and so i think the moderators i think are going to work very hard i think to keep it focused on policy but when we get into the legal battles

[00:39:12] and we get into what's trump's going through with hunters going through and those types of attacks i think that's trump's bread and butter i also will say to you that i don't i have never felt that donald trump is a strong policy or intellectual debater i think biden

[00:39:33] can be and is very much understands having based on his life experiences it's the real contrast of the two candidates is that biden has spent his in his entire professional career in politics in the government and trump is not as much and so

[00:39:50] i think there's just a depth of knowledge and so i think it's a i don't think trump's strong suit is policy and so i think balancing that out in the debate i think that i think all candidates have their reset mode or where they go to

[00:40:07] when they need to push back and their home base and some of that time that's policy people can be very intellectual i think biden can be that way i think trump's is not and so i think it's going to be a contrast

[00:40:18] on those issues i will also say as much as i think biden is much more i think focused on policy a policy i don't know if it's going to win the race i think there's a there's some i think i don't think this is

[00:40:31] he talks about abortion he talks about some matters related to the economy on on trump's side but i think what's really going to get these candidates going at each other is not a substantive policy debate i think where this debate

[00:40:42] and i i got to applaud cnn for trying to set it up the way and i hope that it is but ultimately in terms of moving the dial i just don't know i guess i'm gonna have to wait and see what the response is but i just

[00:40:55] don't know how many people are sitting back and saying about a policy discussion if that's where they're still making a decision i still think that the the the decision on who they're going to go with is going to come down to temperament and judgment

[00:41:09] and so if when you get into those personal type of attacks that's where i think more would say go on again i'll just keep repeating myself this is all this is going to be such a fascinating debate on so many levels i'm so excited i

[00:41:22] haven't been this excited since probably the 88 debate when i was 15 i was 14 years old i have to say i did not watch the 88 debate i don't think it's a much of an audience of two-year-olds but i i'm glad you liked it hey i i'm doing the math there

[00:41:40] yeah um i i too i'm very excited it's going to be great i'm excited to chat about it after the fact and see what trump we get what biden we get how they interact with each other and how they answer their questions if there's any major flubs or

[00:41:54] chaos that comes out time will tell and we'll be waiting with bated breath stay tuned for our recap and post debate spin post debate spin oh yes we didn't even chat about that uh here i am ready to wrap it up post debate spin

[00:42:11] i think that is going to be i think we're gonna see the stuff that we already talked about we're gonna see from from my perspective we're gonna see trump's campaign come out and hammer the structure hammer the moderators the network that it was three against one

[00:42:24] that he did what he was supposed to do and that biden's unfit for office i really think that is 90 percent of what we're going to see coming out of that debate and i think that president biden's campaign if i what i would anticipate them seeing is

[00:42:39] trump is unhinged he's fiery he is also unfit for office that if you get trump you're obviously there what they're prepping this for is you're going to get a dictator your rights are going to be taken away women's rights are going to be especially

[00:42:53] impacted and that he is going to come in not having another election behind him and he is going to be a dictator versus somebody who is working to better lives for all americans yes i will say yes i will say to you

[00:43:07] what i think one of the things that's changed at least in the last 20 30 some years is the amount is the formalization of the post debate spin it used to be much more informal now they have they have spin rooms and they all congregate and

[00:43:23] the people they just make it accessible for easy so the post debate spin is really important i would say to you that how this debate is going to be framed up in some instances i would say that the debate is can sometimes be secondary to the spin

[00:43:38] operation in the aftermath because what the reporters are going to do and the campaigns are going to do is try to find the nugget or two and then they're going to that they're going to want to push and it's going to be it's a great i

[00:43:50] would recommend people if they want to get an understanding of what a campaign spin room is like is to watch the movie the war room about the 92 campaign where you really get get into the clinton gore the clinton gore and the bush quail 92 race it's

[00:44:04] just absolutely fascinating it's a great movie you can see how spin works and spin happens and spin is formulated in in in a post debate quick manner and the frenzied nature of it but debated the spin is going to be important because again

[00:44:19] the biden campaign is going to come up with two or three points if they're going to want to make the trump campaign is going to want to come up with two or three points and then the media is going to have to

[00:44:27] be sold on those and so you're going to have this jostling afterwards i also will say that i think that and i'm not one to complement the trump campaign very often but i think that they are doing unfortunately i think they're doing as good of a

[00:44:42] job as they can to kind of taint the jury pool prior to this debate they're already trying to set expectations and it's unfortunate i don't agree with it but i know it works for their base and so the communications director are going

[00:44:57] out there and firing shots at cnn right away they're just setting the table for they're setting expectations and it works for their it works for them i wish it didn't work for them as much as they they do it but so be it that's i'm not a trump

[00:45:12] supporter so be interesting to see but i think the pre-debate work is being done in the post debate to spin i think is going to be fantastic and well certainly as we watch that post debate to spin what we see immediately following with the campaign

[00:45:25] staff from either side going on the networks and what we see on social media will certainly get a good view a good window into what they're trying to push what they're trying to accomplish after the fact and if there's any messes that they're trying to clean up because

[00:45:40] maybe we have a binder full of women moment or something else really fun that these campaigns have to go try to clean up i'm more excited than i probably should be about this to be perfectly honest i'm really excited i'm like i'm really

[00:45:53] excited this is i gotta stay up late i'm i'm so excited i'm absolutely let's talk about that for a second this debate is 9 p.m center 9 p.m eastern these are two men in their late 70s early 80s that is late i go to bed typically by 9 9 30

[00:46:09] this is certainly something that time is going to play a role i heard that the biden campaign was asking for stools behind the podium from what i understand that was declined again 90 minutes for anybody standing up under hot lights in this scenario it's a pressure cooker

[00:46:24] i would want to sit down in 90 minutes so there are so many other little things in play with how the performance of these two men is what they're how they're going to perform i do think age is a factor in this race harkening back on on the 84 debate

[00:46:39] between mondale and reagan or age was a factor in that race joe and it was a became a great moment for reagan in the race talking about the youth and experience of vice president walter mondale at the time it was just a great moment

[00:46:52] in the debate i do think age is will be a factor in this debate but what i've said to you before is i understand that biden's older but within a few years and i think trump comes across of the two he comes across more engaged

[00:47:08] he comes across more more vibrant more that doesn't mean i agree with one one thousandth of what's coming out of his mouth and i absolutely believe that the the amount of issue that biden is having trump is having to but in terms of

[00:47:23] which candidate is showing their age more i think biden does and so i think it's i think on the from the age perspective from the enthusiasm and intensity perspective i think biden has a much higher expectation that he shows enthusiasm and the fact that he can

[00:47:41] stay awake because and i respectfully because i don't i would be taking a nap right now if i had to be up for 90 minutes on stage standing on thursday i would be going to bed right now um okay last question here over

[00:47:57] under do you think trump calls him sleepy joe more or less than seven times um i just pulled that number times 11 ah interesting how about you it's late i think he's gonna i think he's gonna be right there seven or above is i'm gonna go with

[00:48:15] wow oh my god he loves the sleepy joe plus it's late he's gonna have a long blank or a blank stare and he's gonna i i accepted that's a good one we'll watch that we'll do a we'll do a count on uh sleepy joe comments i'm

[00:48:31] excited for the debate and our recap i'm very excited to thank you for doing this week and we'll be back again with a new episode on friday recapping the debate woohoo bye bye we want to thank you for listening to the breakdown with broadcorb and becky

[00:48:47] before we go show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on apple podcast spotify or on the platform where you listen you can also leave a review or give us a shout out on our website or across all social media platforms at

[00:49:02] bb break pod the breakdown with broadcorb and becky will return this week with a post presidential debate bonus episode thank you for listening today